Changing the Guard

[hourn]

I've finally come to accept the fact that my favourite cricketer, Steve Waugh, and his twin brother, Mark, will no longer be part of the Australia test team if they do not put up a score in the third test.

The two are 37 in June, and are ageing and are in very poor form.

In the last 8 tests their stats are as follows:
Mark Waugh - 11 inns, 363 runs at 33.00, 3 50+ and a total of 5 scores above 30
Steve Waugh - 11 inns, 265 runs at 24.09, 2 50+ and just 4 scores above 30

Compare that to the rest of the batting team from the last 8 tests
Justin Langer - 808 at 67.33. 4 x 100, 3 x 50
Matt Hayden - 1007 at 83.91. 5 x 100, 4 x 50
Ricky Ponting - 552 at 61.33. 2 x 100, 1 x 50
Damien Martyn - 528 at 58.66. 3 x 100, 2 x 50
Adam Gilchrist - 718 at 89.89. 3 x 100, 1 x 50


The two are visibly falling behind their team mates. And i think, yes maybe it is time for the two greats to pass the baton on to the younger brigade.

Shane Watson is the first definate replacement into the team, batting at 6, moving Martyn to 4. And there are a number of candidates for the number 5 position, which has been held so brilliantly by Steve Waugh.

Martin Love is the front candidate for mine, at 28 years of age, he is not old, and has about 5 seasons left in him - has done brilliantly for a number of years at Sheffield Shield level. Other candidates would be Jimmy Maher, although he is an opening batsmem, Brad Hodge would also be high on the ranking scale, Lehmann would also be up there, but one feels he will NEVER get a run (god only knows what the reason is), Michael Clarke may be an outside chance because of his age, but they may save him a few years for when Hayden or Langer or Martyn decide to give up test cricket, and Simon Katich is still a chance despite hes recent ordinary form.

If Steve and Mark Waugh fail to score runs in this test, this should be the starting line-up for the next test v Zimbabwe, starting on April 25.
Matt Hayden
Justin Langer
Ricky Ponting - captain
Damien Martyn
Martin Love
Shane Watson
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Brett Lee
Jason Gillespie
Glenn McGrath

I think its time to bite the bullet

 

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

Originally posted by hourn
I've finally come to accept the fact that my favourite cricketer, Steve Waugh, and his twin brother, Mark, will no longer be part of the Australia test team if they do not put up a score in the third test.

Yep,
im coming to accept that too.

Which is a bloody hard thing to accept. I respect Steve Waugh greatly and is my all time favourite cricketer.

He has developed a culture in this side, a ruthless team that takes no prisoners and never gives up.

He has set a strong precendent which is hopefully followed.

 

[RogerC]

If Steve is dismissed twice in the next test, and fails to score 49 runs in total, his average will fall below 50. He'd hate that to happen.

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by RogerC
If Steve is dismissed twice in the next test, and fails to score 49 runs in total, his average will fall below 50. He'd hate that to happen.

Which is the exact reason that he'll retire.

 

[SeinDude]

I understand that the changing of the guard must occur, like it did in the early 1980's with Lillie, Marsh & Greg Chappell, but at the moment I dont think Mark & Steve Waugh's form is all that bad. Sure, they are down on their usual standards, but I feel that both Waughs have a bit more to offer in the test arena, and we should give them a chance to prove they've still got what it takes.

SeinDude

 

[Player]

Originally posted by hourn
In the last 8 tests their stats are as follows:
Mark Waugh - 11 inns, 363 runs at 33.00, 3 50+ and a total of 5 scores above 30

You want to drop a guy for only having a recent 'poor' average of 33?

Class is permanent, form temporary.

OK at 37 they are prolly past their best, but it doesn't mean they don't still have something to offer.

 

[RogerC]

Having something to offer isn't good enough. Steve Waugh has consistently said that you have to pick the best team available. He's also quite candidly admitted that he and his brother are out of form. Put the two together and the result is they should be dropped.

That's what he says anyway. What I think is that you should always be planning for the future, and the best time to do it is while the team is in form. Start to ask the question of what this team will look like in five years time. Maybe Gilchrist will still be there (closing on retirement), but only Ponting, Lee and Gillespie (and Watson, who hasn't played a test yet) are sure to be there with him. That's 5 batsmen and 2 bowlers to find and ease into this team, and not a whole lot of time in which to do it.

Five years ago, all bar Lee and Gilchrist had played test cricket, and both Waughs, Warne and McGrath were already well established. Hayden wasn't playing regularly, but he was smashing big scores in domestic cricket, as Ponting did before him.

We have no such luxury now. None of the candidates for selection are exactly setting the world on fire. And yet we have to find five of them. I say we start trying a few of them out now, while the overall team structure can afford it.

All this talk of professional players and career as excuses for playing as long as you can are just another way of saying the individual is greater than the game. And I don't believe that.

 

[hourn]

Originally posted by RogerC
Having something to offer isn't good enough. Steve Waugh has consistently said that you have to pick the best team available. He's also quite candidly admitted that he and his brother are out of form. Put the two together and the result is they should be dropped.

That's what he says anyway. What I think is that you should always be planning for the future, and the best time to do it is while the team is in form. Start to ask the question of what this team will look like in five years time. Maybe Gilchrist will still be there (closing on retirement), but only Ponting, Lee and Gillespie (and Watson, who hasn't played a test yet) are sure to be there with him. That's 5 batsmen and 2 bowlers to find and ease into this team, and not a whole lot of time in which to do it.

Five years ago, all bar Lee and Gilchrist had played test cricket, and both Waughs, Warne and McGrath were already well established. Hayden wasn't playing regularly, but he was smashing big scores in domestic cricket, as Ponting did before him.

We have no such luxury now. None of the candidates for selection are exactly setting the world on fire. And yet we have to find five of them. I say we start trying a few of them out now, while the overall team structure can afford it.

All this talk of professional players and career as excuses for playing as long as you can are just another way of saying the individual is greater than the game. And I don't believe that.

I reckon that McGrath will be around for a while - has a very stress free action, and is fit, and hasn't had a bad history of injuries.

In 5 years time

Hayden - 1971 - gone
Langer - 1970 - gone
Ponting - 1974 - will still be playing
M Waugh - 1965 - long gone
S Waugh - 1965 - long gone
Martyn - 1971 - gone
Gilchrist - 1971 - might be playing, if so, winding down
Warne - 1969 - gone
Lee - 1973 - might be playing
Gillespie - 1975 - should still be playing
McGrath - 1970 - might be playing, if so, winding down

So there really is only one player that will DEFINETALY be there barring injuries which is not a good sign at all.

Batsmen who should get a run at some stage over the next five years
Simon Watson - 1980 - will be a permenant fixture by next summer
Michael Clarke - 1981 - will be a permenant fixture in a couple of seasons
Simon Katich - 1975 - will still be playing, dont know about test cricket
Martin Love - 1974 - as for Katich

The Quick Bowling department we are sweet in
Nathan Bracken - 1977 - will next in line after Nofke
Ashley Nofke - 1977 - will be the Andy Bichel of next decade
Paul Rofe - 1980 - should be playing test cricket, as you would think at least one of Gillespie, McGrath or Gillespie will be gone.
Scott Brant - 1983 - next generation, looks like a huge prospect though.

Spinners we are not so strong, Hauritz or White will be in the team.

side will look something along these lines in five years time:
1. Simon Katich
2. ????
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Martin Love
5. Michael Clarke
6. Shane Watson
7. Adam Gilchrist/Sean Clingeleffer
8. Nathan Hauritz/Cameron White
3 out of:
Brett Lee
Jason Gillespie
Glenn McGrath
Paul Rofe

Cameron Ferguson who is progressing through the ranks is looking good, may be shoot through the ranks for that final opening position.

Obviousbly its very rough, but it should be something along those lines.

 

[Unwritten_Law]

Originally posted by hourn


Spinners we are not so strong, Hauritz or White will be in the team.

What about Doherty from tassie. Outplayed white by a mile in the U18 world cup.

 

[hourn]

Haven't actually seen Xavier Doherty play, although his stats dont look half bad, and his only 20. Will probably push for selection at some stage.

White, i dont rate very highly cause he doesn't spin it, but his got good numbers at the moment, and cricket is the type of sport where its hard to argue against.

Another good spinner, is a guy who 16 years old playing first grade at Parramatta, Vileen Sithloo, made his first grade debut last weekend. Can't remember exactly how he did, but he picked up a couple of wickets i think.

Another good quick bowler is Aaron Bird from North Sydney - the guy who hgave Slater his stitches a couple of weeks back.

Overall, i reckon our future is pretty solid.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Mark Waugh should make way for Lehmann in the 3rd test, with Martyn moving up the order to 4. He has been average for a long time now. His batting in the so-called prime position @ 4, yet has the worst average of the top 7 batsman.

Steve IMO deserves at least another series, as he hasn't been struggling as long as Mark & also he is the captain of the side. However, if his form does not recover, I would look at bringing in Martin Love for team balance (Katich has not done enough lately) to enable Ponting to drop down the order. ie. batting line-up could be:

Hayden
Langer
Love
Ponting
Martyn
Lehmann
Gillchrist

Note no batsman from NSW - shock horror (although they still claim Gilly)!

 

[hourn]

I'd rather see Watson then Lehmann. Reckon both are equally as good, but Watson is younger - got to look to the future when you have an old team.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Hourn - Don't get me wrong Watson looks a great prospect, but your taking a bit far calling him as good as Lehmann. Lehmann is the top domestic run-scorer of all time, has been consistently over many seasons now & it is a tragedy he hasn't replaced the under-performing Mark Waugh in tests years ago. He is so respected, Yorkshire have made him captain (& they didn't even allow foreign players until a few years back) & international stars such as Wasim Akram cannot believe he is not in the team. Lehmann is not a short-term option as he has many years left in him. Also, he would be my pick for captain should Steve Waugh struggle to regain form. Watson will get his chance if he puts the runs (& wickets) on the board, but he needs to earn his spot like Langer, Hayden & Martyn (& hopefully Lehmann).

 

[hourn]

I would rather see Watson play for two reasons a) his age, and b) he can bowl. Lehmann is definetal a better batsmen, although on current form Watson is not to far behind him.

Lehmann isn't exactly a short term option, as he probably has at least two closer to four seasons left in him, however the best time to experiment with a youngster is when the team is in such a got form. The teams form will make him less nervous, and he should perform better.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The Australian team cannot afford to carry both Waughs. Because Steve is captain, Mark must be dropped for the tour of Zimbabwe. Lehmann (not before time) must be given a fair go, before this becomes even more of a joke. What are the selectors waiting for - Mark's average to fall below 40 & Steve's to fall below 50? Martin Love IMO, should come into the test squad to replace Mark Waugh.