Universal Love Charlie ‘Chook’ Constable

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Partridge said:
Nup, screw those who get injured. Toughen up draftees.

The Bunton analogy is even better - unless they win the Brownlow in each of their first two seasons - they're gone.

Mercy is for the week.
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I agree on the Bunton principle absolutely.
But your a harsher man than me Partridge.
If someone is unfit and got stabbed they really should get a game.
Have a heart! They moved all the way back to the Surfcoast to wind down and get match fees.
You'd have to be a hard man to deny that.
Think about the future FFS
 
Think we look better and play better when he's on the ground. Have thought that since his first game.
Unfortunately he's on the bench half the time.
He makes the main men better as they can be more on the outside.
Don't get the lack of defence. Think he's been too defensive the last 2 weeks.
Wait till Selwood comes back If you want to see not playing on an opponent.
 
Spazz Cat said:
Think we look better and play better when he's on the ground. Have thought that since his first game.
Unfortunately he's on the bench half the time.
He makes the main men better as they can be more on the outside.
Don't get the lack of defence. Think he's been too defensive the last 2 weeks.
Wait till Selwood comes back If you want to see not playing on an opponent.
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Thought he was poor last night tbh. Just a lot of rushed disposals and zero composure. Would be in my 5 worst cats and given Joel will be back on Wednesday I’d have him omitted
 

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Art Vandelay_ said:
Thought he was poor last night tbh. Just a lot of rushed disposals and zero composure. Would be in my 5 worst cats and given Joel will be back on Wednesday I’d have him omitted
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Yeah he will be ommited and most likely will be for some time.
But I don't think we'll play better. Last 2 weeks have been really encouraging from a midfield perspective. Have not relied too much on Danger either.
Has been preety much playing on a man the whole time and still finding the ball.
 
Art Vandelay_ said:
Thought he was poor last night tbh. Just a lot of rushed disposals and zero composure. Would be in my 5 worst cats and given Joel will be back on Wednesday I’d have him omitted
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According to Dream Team and AFL fantasy, he was far from our 5th worst player.
He was ko'd midway through the last quarter and had already accumulated 16 disposals (9 contested), 3 clearances and 3 tackles.

Plenty of players were worse than him I would have thought . . . Kolo, Henry, Fogarty, Simpson, Close, O'Conner, Rohan, Bews, Blicavs, Parfitt
 
catscollector said:
According to Dream Team and AFL fantasy, he was far from our 5th worst player.
He was ko'd midway through the last quarter and had already accumulated 16 disposals (9 contested), 3 clearances and 3 tackles.

Plenty of players were worse than him I would have thought . . . Kolo, Henry, Fogarty, Simpson, Close, O'Conner, Rohan, Bews, Blicavs, Parfitt
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Ranking is little bit semantics. Most of those were poor, Henry and Bews were fine. Close showed a bit off limited supply.
All in all, was left rather unimpressed with Constable last night. Seen little these last two games to suggest he should hold his place.
 
catscollector said:
According to Dream Team and AFL fantasy, he was far from our 5th worst player.
He was ko'd midway through the last quarter and had already accumulated 16 disposals (9 contested), 3 clearances and 3 tackles.

Plenty of players were worse than him I would have thought . . . Kolo, Henry, Fogarty, Simpson, Close, O'Conner, Rohan, Bews, Blicavs, Parfitt
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Thought he was pretty good early and then didn't really see him from mid way through the second.

I also thought both Simpson and Close had good games. And you're being harsh on those defenders who stood up against a stack of ball in the 3rd and 4th. Henry's only blue was the marking contest which wasn't much different to Constable's poor effort against Ryan. Not sure what O'Connor did wrong either. The attempted switch under pressure with a few minutes to go when we're a goal behind was probably the right choice and we messed it up despite the kick being to our advantage and having more numbers.
 
Art Vandelay_ said:
Ranking is little bit semantics. Most of those were poor, Henry and Bews were fine. Close showed a bit off limited supply.
All in all, was left rather unimpressed with Constable last night. Seen little these last two games to suggest he should hold his place.
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but you would keep fogarty?

we always play better footy when constable is in the team. he extracts the pill. His touches arent chip kicks on the half back flank. He gets the pill himself. Until last night he had only played in one loss and we had been up all night when he was ko'd.
 
Seeds said:
but you would keep fogarty?

we always play better footy when constable is in the team. he extracts the pill. His touches arent chip kicks on the half back flank. He gets the pill himself. Until last night he had only played in one loss and we had been up all night when he was ko'd.
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I would play Fogarty in position if I were going to play him at all, he wouldn't be in the pocket if I were picking the team. Just like with Atkins you look at it on a very superficial and puddle depth analysis level.
They are both midfielders pigeonholed into the forward pocket and struggle as a result. Pick a real forward and play mids in the midfield.
 
CC was good for first half but like most of the team waned under immense pressure after. Certainly wasn’t a liability even then.

IMO - Comparison with Ling is better (than Corey), biggish body with smarts and some ability to win some contested ball and mark - not a natural distance runner like Joel. Similar to Ling’s role CC has also been tagging Op mids last two games, winning some ball when they dip into contests. How was Ling going in his first 2-3 years?

In any case, footy has changed since the 2000s and teams now can’t accommodate more than 2 one paced players. As well documented, Charlie is probably competing with our one paced mids - Menegola and Selwood.
 
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I went into that match thinking that Chook was going to establish himself as a lock in our midfield going forward. I came out thinking that maybe his stats were padded with pointless handpasses to nowhere.

To reconcile these ideas I went back and took a second look. This took way more time than I expected.

So, every passage of pay where Charlie recorded a stat described below

Q1
7:49) tackle/1%er/ground ball get/effective handpass - diving handpass in congestion pushed the ball slightly forward of congestion, ended up with Parfitt but was actually originally to the advantage of Gaff. Lucky not to be called holding the man twice

9:28) contested handballs x2 - came jogging through congestion for a contested possession - gave off to Parfitt who was in a worse position but stuck around to clean up mess and sent uncontested handball to Close who was able to send ball forward to Miers. Worth noting that he would have been tackled on his first possession had Close not blocked for him and Close also was the one to clear the immediate congestion.

9:57) Free against - had TK by the arm at a throw in. Wasn't necessary but not sure Chook has the speed to go with TK. Disappointing

11:25) takes possession back of the stoppage and snaps around the body to send out of defensive 50. Kick was too high and landed in a pack on the 50m line for a total maybe 30m distance. Was technically an uncontested possession, not being tackled but not sure he had any better options as cats well hemmed in.

20:54) tapped a ruck tap back into congestion then got onto the end of a handball which he immediately handballed while being tackled to Tuohy, who had just enough time to get kick forward towards goal. Wasn't the worst option and nearly worked though net result was turnover. Impressed by speed of disposal to Tuohy here

23:34) in the back free against at centre bounce on i think sheed. I'm not sure I'd have paid that one.

25:20) pushed back for an uncontested mark to support Blitz chipping around in the back half. Cheap mark but the kick across d50 to find Stewart was genuinely a decent 40m high risk kick

25:53) picked a gap to sit in to take a mark from Menegola to start the transition from chip kicking out of d50 to attack. Marked and immediately switched to MOC 40m away on opposite wing to open up the attack. I get the feeling that's case of what the mc want from their attack. Note that he got to this position 49 seconds after taking the mark on the opposite wing 70m away and having presented a lead prior to this. He's not blessed with acceleration or speed but he seems to be continually jogging away.

27:55) took mark on the wing in space then quarter time. Seemed to be on his own or at least given plenty of space.

Q2
7:18) centre bounce, managed to get the ball out to advantage of parfitt while being tackled by both Sheed and Gaff. Result was fast forward entry from the parfitt kick. Not bad at all.

8:49) 8m kick to Parfitts advantage while being tackled. Crowded contest coming off a ball up on the wing. Net result throw in

9:14) technically recorded a tackle against Duggan but Duggan didn't really take possession and Constable broke it off without giving away a free.

13:19) at a d50 throw in absorbed at tackle and gave off to Dangerfield. Result Dangerfield got out the back of the stoppage with ball in hand.

17:40) read the passage well and saw where Parfitt was going, got into a bit of space at the back of the contest. Took and uncontested possession, handball forward. Net result cats inside 50

23:53) throw in on wing, swooped on loose ball and handballed forward again to parfitt with a maybe 25m handball. Resulted in another stoppage but it was at least pretty attacking and also likely the best option given the space he was working in

Q3
5:08) Ran onto Dom Sheed trying to break away from the centre bounce stoppage and hit a holding the ball free for. Sheed didn't have prior I'd have thought but was paid. Immediately gave off to Dangerfield who sent it forward.

6:36) physically pulled the ball out of a west coast players hands before a ball up could be called and handpass out the front to Miers. Not bad

7:21) got a chip kick out defence mark then sent long down the line to Sav who very nearly took it. Net result 50m gained. Getting the sense he doesn't like the keepings off stuff.

10:02) handpass out of a stoppage went to no one and essentially Gaff ran onto it in d50

He didn't record a stat when he conceded the contested mark to Liam Ryan so didn't mention but that's an elephant in the room.

Make of this what you want, and I guess this is nothing people don't already know but my interpretation is that in combination with decent outside players he can be a solid piece of a midfield unit that you can structure around. His pace and endurance limitations mean he'll never be a superstar but his positive impacts will be hard to work without if he asks for a trade at a point where our other ball winners are in semi-retirement.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
I went into that match thinking that Chook was going to establish himself as a lock in our midfield going forward. I came out thinking that maybe his stats were padded with pointless handpasses to nowhere.

To reconcile these ideas I went back and took a second look. This took way more time than I expected.

So, every passage of pay where Charlie recorded a stat described below

Q1
7:49) tackle/1%er/ground ball get/effective handpass - diving handpass in congestion pushed the ball slightly forward of congestion, ended up with Parfitt but was actually originally to the advantage of Gaff. Lucky not to be called holding the man twice

9:28) contested handballs x2 - came jogging through congestion for a contested possession - gave off to Parfitt who was in a worse position but stuck around to clean up mess and sent uncontested handball to Close who was able to send ball forward to Miers. Worth noting that he would have been tackled on his first possession had Close not blocked for him and Close also was the one to clear the immediate congestion.

9:57) Free against - had TK by the arm at a throw in. Wasn't necessary but not sure Chook has the speed to go with TK. Disappointing

11:25) takes possession back of the stoppage and snaps around the body to send out of defensive 50. Kick was too high and landed in a pack on the 50m line for a total maybe 30m distance. Was technically an uncontested possession, not being tackled but not sure he had any better options as cats well hemmed in.

20:54) tapped a ruck tap back into congestion then got onto the end of a handball which he immediately handballed while being tackled to Tuohy, who had just enough time to get kick forward towards goal. Wasn't the worst option and nearly worked though net result was turnover. Impressed by speed of disposal to Tuohy here

23:34) in the back free against at centre bounce on i think sheed. I'm not sure I'd have paid that one.

25:20) pushed back for an uncontested mark to support Blitz chipping around in the back half. Cheap mark but the kick across d50 to find Stewart was genuinely a decent 40m high risk kick

25:53) picked a gap to sit in to take a mark from Menegola to start the transition from chip kicking out of d50 to attack. Marked and immediately switched to MOC 40m away on opposite wing to open up the attack. I get the feeling that's case of what the mc want from their attack. Note that he got to this position 49 seconds after taking the mark on the opposite wing 70m away and having presented a lead prior to this. He's not blessed with acceleration or speed but he seems to be continually jogging away.

27:55) took mark on the wing in space then quarter time. Seemed to be on his own or at least given plenty of space.

Q2
7:18) centre bounce, managed to get the ball out to advantage of parfitt while being tackled by both Sheed and Gaff. Result was fast forward entry from the parfitt kick. Not bad at all.

8:49) 8m kick to Parfitts advantage while being tackled. Crowded contest coming off a ball up on the wing. Net result throw in

9:14) technically recorded a tackle against Duggan but Duggan didn't really take possession and Constable broke it off without giving away a free.

13:19) at a d50 throw in absorbed at tackle and gave off to Dangerfield. Result Dangerfield got out the back of the stoppage with ball in hand.

17:40) read the passage well and saw where Parfitt was going, got into a bit of space at the back of the contest. Took and uncontested possession, handball forward. Net result cats inside 50

23:53) throw in on wing, swooped on loose ball and handballed forward again to parfitt with a maybe 25m handball. Resulted in another stoppage but it was at least pretty attacking and also likely the best option given the space he was working in

Q3
5:08) Ran onto Dom Sheed trying to break away from the centre bounce stoppage and hit a holding the ball free for. Sheed didn't have prior I'd have thought but was paid. Immediately gave off to Dangerfield who sent it forward.

6:36) physically pulled the ball out of a west coast players hands before a ball up could be called and handpass out the front to Miers. Not bad

7:21) got a chip kick out defence mark then sent long down the line to Sav who very nearly took it. Net result 50m gained. Getting the sense he doesn't like the keepings off stuff.

10:02) handpass out of a stoppage went to no one and essentially Gaff ran onto it in d50

He didn't record a stat when he conceded the contested mark to Liam Ryan so didn't mention but that's an elephant in the room.

Make of this what you want, and I guess this is nothing people don't already know but my interpretation is that in combination with decent outside players he can be a solid piece of a midfield unit that you can structure around. His pace and endurance limitations mean he'll never be a superstar but his positive impacts will be hard to work without if he asks for a trade at a point where our other ball winners are in semi-retirement.
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Cheers for doing that. Great post.
 

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Spazz Cat said:
Think we look better and play better when he's on the ground. Have thought that since his first game.
Unfortunately he's on the bench half the time.
He makes the main men better as they can be more on the outside.
Don't get the lack of defence. Think he's been too defensive the last 2 weeks.
Wait till Selwood comes back If you want to see not playing on an opponent.
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I noticed in the centre bounces he starts trying to defend his opponent rather than backing himself to get the ball. As a result he trailed them at times. In 50 games he'll be more balanced in how much focus he gives to both tasks. Where that is, I don't know, still hopeful it is with us.
 
ButterMill said:
I noticed in the centre bounces he starts trying to defend his opponent rather than backing himself to get the ball. As a result he trailed them at times. In 50 games he'll be more balanced in how much focus he gives to both tasks. Where that is, I don't know, still hopeful it is with us.
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I think part of that is that if he draws them in then when the ball is live in the vicinity it's harder for them to break away. To me he seems to be backing himself to dish it off mid tackle rather than trying to beat an opponent for pace. Will be vulnerable to the odd holding on free but he gets some disposals off that are long odds for others
 
ButterMill said:
I noticed in the centre bounces he starts trying to defend his opponent rather than backing himself to get the ball. As a result he trailed them at times. In 50 games he'll be more balanced in how much focus he gives to both tasks. Where that is, I don't know, still hopeful it is with us.
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He may be getting instructed to do this.
 
Art Vandelay_ said:
I would play Fogarty in position if I were going to play him at all, he wouldn't be in the pocket if I were picking the team. Just like with Atkins you look at it on a very superficial and puddle depth analysis level.
They are both midfielders pigeonholed into the forward pocket and struggle as a result. Pick a real forward and play mids in the midfield.
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But there are no midifeld spots for them. So that means they dont play. How does fogarty go in the practise games. Does he play mdifield Or as a flanker? Does he play well in the mids? Even being played out of position he would still show traits that would make him a good mid. He doesnt show them at afl level.
 
Seeds said:
But there are no midifeld spots for them. So that means they dont play. How does fogarty go in the practise games. Does he play mdifield Or as a flanker? Does he play well in the mids? Even being played out of position he would still show traits that would make him a good mid. He doesnt show them at afl level.
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This question has already been answered tbf
 
ButterMill said:
Looks like the knock took more of a toll on Constable than first thought.

"Young midfielder Charlie Constable is unavailable, having suffered a concussion in Saturday night's narrow nine-point loss to West Coast" AFL site

Might explain the quiet second half.
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The concussion was towards the end of the match, with like 7 minutes to go - so wouldn't really factor into his second half

He came off under the blood rule at 21:01 and the siren sounded at 28:30
 
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