Universal Love Charlie Cameron

[Golumless]

Didn't someone say Cameron didn't leave for money.

Lol.

Of course he did.

He is not as nieve/shy as many may think.

Fully understands the Footy Industry and what makes a player marketable/valuable. Spent time in the US as a kid playing baseball, and learnt the business of sport early.

We were too busy chasing Gibbs and got blindsided, undervaluing him.

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We wouldn't have resigned Cameron even if we weren't going for Gibbs. We may have kept Lever though.

Comes down to needs. Cameron, whilst a talented player, was just a defensive forward with limited potential to be more here in the short term (after all, we had Betts for another 3 years at that point and were planning to contend for that time, which is a reasonable expectation). Lever probably would have been opted for due to Hartigan being one of our worst players in the 2017 best 22 and Lever potentially being a Rance/McGovern to add another dimension to that side if we had to make that choice.

Potentially our window to keep Cameron closed in 2016 using the power of hindsight, though arguably, there is no reason Cameron resigns without us paying a pretty decent wage.

 

[Geoffa32]

We wouldn't have resigned Cameron even if we weren't going for Gibbs. We may have kept Lever though.

Comes down to needs. Cameron, whilst a talented player, was just a defensive forward with limited potential to be more here (after all, we had Betts for another 3 years at that point and were planning to contend for that time, a reasonable expectation). Lever probably would have been opted for due to Hartigan being one of our worst players in the 2017 best 22 and Lever potentially being a Rance/McGovern to add another dimension to that side.

Increase Cameron's salary by half of the cap space we had for Gibbs?

Not interested in paying Lever $800k. He ain't worth it.



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[Golumless]

Increase Cameron's salary by half of the cap space we had for Gibbs?

Not interested in paying Lever $800k. He ain't worth it.



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I have no interest in Lever either at that price. We would have gone in that direction though because that was the practical direction for the side we had. We needed a CHB who can offer something offensively. Another gun small forward was just a luxury at that point.

We needed Cameron to be a Puopolo for another 3-4 years. He wanted to be Betts.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

We wouldn't have resigned Cameron even if we weren't going for Gibbs. We may have kept Lever though.

Comes down to needs. Cameron, whilst a talented player, was just a defensive forward with limited potential to be more here in the short term (after all, we had Betts for another 3 years at that point and were planning to contend for that time, which is a reasonable expectation). Lever probably would have been opted for due to Hartigan being one of our worst players in the 2017 best 22 and Lever potentially being a Rance/McGovern to add another dimension to that side if we had to make that choice.

Potentially our window to keep Cameron closed in 2016 using the power of hindsight, though arguably, there is no reason Cameron resigns without us paying a pretty decent wage.

I dont believe there is a script to follow while building a team. Many changes have happened over the years, and I see no issue with Cameron and Betts in the same side, playing whatever roll they play best. Cameron is one of those players you just dont let slip through your fingers. Lever, not so important.

 

[Geoffa32]

I dont believe there is a script to follow while building a team. Many changes have happened over the years, and I see no issue with Cameron and Betts in the same side, playing whatever roll they play best. Cameron is one of those players you just dont let slip through your fingers. Lever, not so important.

Letting Eddie go this year is not an issue.

He is 32 and we are not contending. If he plays a kid doesn't.


Cameron though. Out of all the guys we have lost.since about 2012 there are three I wish we still had and we should have kept.

Cameron. We stuffed up.chasing Gibbs and undervalued Charlie. Brisbane offered him a better contract. We let him go with a year to go. Should have held on to him

Danger. Was never going to stay. He did his time here. We matched his contract. But he is is the most prominent player in the AFL now. Was never going to happen playing here. He is set up for life after Footy. I also believe he wanted to live back "home" and start a family among his own family.

Greenwood he wanted a longer contract to what we felt confident offering. This contract is his payday, being a late starter. We just got burnt giving Jenkins a long term deal. Still paying him not to make Geelong's team.

The rest. Meh.

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[skittlebrew]

Increase Cameron's salary by half of the cap space we had for Gibbs?

Not interested in paying Lever $800k. He ain't worth it.

Of course Lever isn't worth $800K but who else are we going to spend the money on? We can't attract players like other clubs.

Therefore we need to learn to be content in paying overs to retain players.

 

[Geoffa32]

Of course Lever isn't worth $800K but who else are we going to spend the money on? We can't attract players like other clubs.

Therefore we need to learn to be content in paying overs to retain players.

Gibbs on about $750k?

Don't trade for him.

Keep Charlie, pay him $650k to $700k. Using some of Gibbs money to fund.

Front end Greenwood salary. Four years, with bulk paid in years 1 to 3. With an option on a 5th based on performance.

Our list is stronger and younger being smarter with our cap space whilst not trading in a new player.

Plus our draft hand is stronger.


Gibbs trade is one of the worst in AFL history.

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[Pilchard_Adams]

Letting Eddie go this year is not an issue.

He is 32 and we are not contending. If he plays a kid doesn't.


Cameron though. Out of all the guys we have lost.since about 2012 there are three I wish we still had and we should have kept.

Cameron. We stuffed up.chasing Gibbs and undervalued Charlie. Brisbane offered him a better contract. We let him go with a year to go. Should have held on to him

Danger. Was never going to stay. He did his time here. We matched his contract. But he is is the most prominent player in the AFL now. Was never going to happen playing here. He is set up for life after Footy. I also believe he wanted to live back "home" and start a family among his own family.

Greenwood he wanted a longer contract to what we felt confident offering. This contract is his payday, being a late starter. We just got burnt giving Jenkins a long term deal. Still paying him not to make Geelong's team.

The rest. Meh.

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Eddie is a victim of our own poor management. Not playing draftees, losing draft picks, the camp and the continued exodus of our younger to mid aged talent meant we dont have the luxury of playing him as a 4th or 5th best forward. I dont doubt that if Adelaide still had McGovern, Jenkins, Cameron plus Tex, Fog and perhaps Stengle rotating through the forward line, Betts wouldnt have become such a focal point. He kind of became the last man standing.

Its a shame because he is possibly second to only Modra as a crowd loved crow, and should have retired in our jumper. Players like Eddie should never be shown the door. Leave that for the Douglas, VBs and Ottens of the club.

 

[Golumless]

I dont believe there is a script to follow while building a team. Many changes have happened over the years, and I see no issue with Cameron and Betts in the same side, playing whatever roll they play best. Cameron is one of those players you just dont let slip through your fingers. Lever, not so important.

You're right in the sense there isn't a script, it's more to do with responding with what you have and what you need. We had a lot of salary cap space invested in our forward line (to the point we had McGovern go and still had to dump forwards players to free up space). We weren't going to invest more money in that area, no matter how talented the player is. The choice would have been between Cameron and Gov, and we chose Gov because of his aerial ability which was seen as the bigger need then defensive pressure (and I'd say I'd make the same call). Our real * up (on top of not locking him away cheaply in 2016, though that may have not been doable) with Cameron was not going hard at small forwards that draft, especially in the rookie picks, even if it was to just find a Petrenko as that's all we did genuinely need.

On the other side of the pitch is a key tall pairing of Kyle Hartigan, and Daniel Talia. Whilst I doubt Lever would have ever been the player we envisioned (and why I was happy when we did trade him), given the choice, we would have opted for Lever as a means to replace Hartigan. It's the most logical decision to make when looking at the state of our list in 2017 to determine who is necessary to retain.

 

[ABAB]

Gibbs on about $750k?

Don't trade for him.

Keep Charlie, pay him $650k to $700k. Using some of Gibbs money to fund.

Front end Greenwood salary. Four years, with bulk paid in years 1 to 3. With an option on a 5th based on performance.

Our list is stronger and younger being smarter with our cap space whilst not trading in a new player.

Plus our draft hand is stronger.


Gibbs trade is one of the worst in AFL history.

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Ricciuto mentioned Gibbs took a big pay cut and was on less than McGovern who resigned on $550K at that time so Gibbs would be on about $500K (so a 50% pay cut instead of the $750K he was getting at Carlton).

 

[Geoffa32]

Ricciuto mentioned Gibbs took a big pay cut and was on less than McGovern who resigned on $550K at that time so Gibbs would be on about $500K (so a 50% pay cut instead of the $750K he was getting at Carlton).

We traded two first picks for a guy on that kind of salary.


Doubt it.

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[ABAB]

We traded two first picks for a guy on that kind of salary.


Doubt it.

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It's what Riccuito said and he would know about the players salary.......and technically it wasn't 2 1st rounder.

 

[1970crow]

Gibbs on about $750k?

Don't trade for him.

Keep Charlie, pay him $650k to $700k. Using some of Gibbs money to fund.

Front end Greenwood salary. Four years, with bulk paid in years 1 to 3. With an option on a 5th based on performance.

Our list is stronger and younger being smarter with our cap space whilst not trading in a new player.

Plus our draft hand is stronger.


Gibbs trade is one of the worst in AFL history.

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It's turned out that way, but looks different if we finish 4th and Gibbs gives us 3 years of 2018 output. But then he's always been a cruiser.

 

[1970crow]

Ricciuto mentioned Gibbs took a big pay cut and was on less than McGovern who resigned on $550K at that time so Gibbs would be on about $500K (so a 50% pay cut instead of the $750K he was getting at Carlton).

Roo is full of s**t. Gibbs old man said we came very hard for Gibbs this time around. He's on big coin.

 

[1970crow]

Ricciuto mentioned Gibbs took a big pay cut and was on less than McGovern who resigned on $550K at that time so Gibbs would be on about $500K (so a 50% pay cut instead of the $750K he was getting at Carlton).

And he was on the bad end of his front ended deal. He wasn't on $750k at Carlton.

 

[ABAB]

Roo is full of sh*t. Gibbs old man said we came very hard for Gibbs this time around. He's on big coin.

We went hard at him doesn't mean we offered him more money for him to leave, Gibbs wife wanted to come back to SA for support so he was always waiting to come back to SA so we didn't need to lure him away with money. And I meant overall he would have been on $750K per season at Carlton but is now on $500K.

 

[Thetrader15]

Letting Eddie go this year is not an issue.

He is 32 and we are not contending. If he plays a kid doesn't.


Cameron though. Out of all the guys we have lost.since about 2012 there are three I wish we still had and we should have kept.

Cameron. We stuffed up.chasing Gibbs and undervalued Charlie. Brisbane offered him a better contract. We let him go with a year to go. Should have held on to him

Danger. Was never going to stay. He did his time here. We matched his contract. But he is is the most prominent player in the AFL now. Was never going to happen playing here. He is set up for life after Footy. I also believe he wanted to live back "home" and start a family among his own family.

Greenwood he wanted a longer contract to what we felt confident offering. This contract is his payday, being a late starter. We just got burnt giving Jenkins a long term deal. Still paying him not to make Geelong's team.

The rest. Meh.

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Cameron is on 700k according to reports...he aint worth that, and he is leaving wherever he is if he is offered that. Same for McGovern on 800k

 

[F_therest]

Roo is full of sh*t. Gibbs old man said we came very hard for Gibbs this time around. He's on big coin.

Yeah I think roo uses front and back ended contracts to spin the narrative to suit him.

As in Gibbs may have been on $500k or even less in his first year at crows when you still had Jenkins, betts etc but he's probably back ended so overall per year earning closer to $700K.

Also he said mcgovern on $800k with us...no way that's true. It was widely reported around the $650k mark. Prob front ended so got that much his first few years, less in year 3 and 4.

 

[ABAB]

Yeah I think roo uses front and back ended contracts to spin the narrative to suit him.

As in Gibbs may have been on $500k or even less in his first year at crows when you still had Jenkins, betts etc but he's probably back ended so overall per year earning closer to $700K.

Also he said mcgovern on $800k with us...no way that's true. It was widely reported around the $650k mark. Prob front ended so got that much his first few years, less in year 3 and 4.

I thought he said McGovern was offered $800K per year to sign with Carlton and that's what he is currently earning. It was reported McGovern signed $550K per year with the Crows which was the same amount the Crows offered Lever who left for $850K so you can see why both left.....and when you talk about salary, you talk about the average salary for the contract and not what they are on for a particular year.

 

[ABAB]

Yeah I think roo uses front and back ended contracts to spin the narrative to suit him.

As in Gibbs may have been on $500k or even less in his first year at crows when you still had Jenkins, betts etc but he's probably back ended so overall per year earning closer to $700K.

Also he said mcgovern on $800k with us...no way that's true. It was widely reported around the $650k mark. Prob front ended so got that much his first few years, less in year 3 and 4.

You are correct it was around the $650K (I got confused with Jenkins), not the $250K difference but $150K is still a lot.

 

[Geoffa32]

We went hard at him doesn't mean we offered him more money for him to leave, Gibbs wife wanted to come back to SA for support so he was always waiting to come back to SA so we didn't need to lure him away with money. And I meant overall he would have been on $750K per season at Carlton but is now on $500K.

Sorry, but there is no way you pay a guy $500k a year after you traded two firsts for him.

It does not make sense.

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[Geoffa32]

Also, it really is time AFL salaries are listed.

The salaries/prize money of most too level pro sports are listed.

Why should the AFL be any different.

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[ABAB]

Sorry, but there is no way you pay a guy $500k a year after you traded two firsts for him.

It does not make sense.

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Yeah, I got confused as McGovern re-signed for $650K so when Riccuito said Gibbs was getting less than McGovern it's likely around $600K and technically it wasn't 2 first rounder. We only did the deal because of swapping of our 1st rounder for Carlton's 2nd rounder and we thought we would finish top 4 and Carlton would finish bottom 4.

 

[Geoffa32]

Yeah, I got confused as McGovern re-signed for $650K so when Riccuito said Gibbs was getting less than McGovern it's likely around $600K and technically it wasn't 2 first rounder. We only did the deal because of swapping of our 1st rounder for Carlton's 2nd rounder and we thought we would finish top 4 and Carlton would finish bottom 4.

So we valued Gibbs highly in the trade, but not in terms of his salary?


Ok........



You can bet Gibbs salary is akin to how we valued him at the trade table.

I hope it was front ended.

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[Sanders]

Yeah, I got confused as McGovern re-signed for $650K so when Riccuito said Gibbs was getting less than McGovern it's likely around $600K and technically it wasn't 2 first rounder. We only did the deal because of swapping of our 1st rounder for Carlton's 2nd rounder and we thought we would finish top 4 and Carlton would finish bottom 4.

was Ricciuto under oath or something?