Asia China's growing influence

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rfctiger74 said:
It's not Chinese imperialism that's freaking yanks out. It's China overtaking the USA that is freaking yanks out.

It was always gunna happen once they got out of the industrial and technological more they were in (just because of sheer numbers), but apparently it's a surprise
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So what if the “Yanks” are “freaking out”?
 

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its free real estate said:
What relevance does this have to China’s growing power in the Pacific and Africa, which predates the “trade war”?
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because the trade war isnt about steel. its about keeping china in a box that ensures it will be lesser than usa indefinitely.
 
rfctiger74 said:
It was always gunna happen once they got out of the industrial and technological more they were in (just because of sheer numbers), but apparently it's a surprise
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Also this end of history argument, that the position the West finds itself in was inevitable, and not the product of poor decision making 20 years ago, is nonsense.
 
its free real estate said:
Also this end of history argument, that the position the West finds itself in was inevitable, and not the product of poor decision making 20 years ago, is nonsense.
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no s**t

china has NOT been either a or the global superpower for only a several hundred years out of three thousand years. the notion they would remain a peasant economy for perpetuity was always a nonsense
 
its free real estate said:
The “freak out” is that opening up trade with China was meant to liberalise the country, when in fact it did nothing of the sort.
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Liberalize? If you mean allow usa companies to come in and buy everything, yeah, that didn't happen.

Doing business in China is pretty normal comparatively imo though. I used to have more corruption issues in Indonesia and Peru. Red tape the USA and Europe used to be far worse. Logistics is better than India. Of all the headaches I had for export markets, China was mid tier.
 
rfctiger74 said:
Liberalize? If you mean allow usa companies to come in and buy everything, yeah, that didn't happen.
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No, that's not what I meant, or what was intended. The intention was that China would liberalise, the CCP would dissolve, and China would be a trading partner akin to Germany or Japan - a former belligerent that became part of the liberal world order. Didn't happen.

Doing business in China is pretty normal comparatively imo though. I used to have more corruption issues in Indonesia and Peru. Red tape the USA and Europe used to be far worse. Logistics is better than India. Of all the headaches I had for export markets, China was mid tier.
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This has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Corruption in Peru or Indonesia is not a means for extending geopolitical power.
 
its free real estate said:
No, that's not what I meant, or what was intended. The intention was that China would liberalise, the CCP would dissolve, and China would be a trading partner akin to Germany or Japan - a former belligerent that became part of the liberal world order. Didn't happen.


This has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Corruption in Peru or Indonesia is not a means for extending geopolitical power.
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It’s not what you meant, but it’s what american meant. First thing the USA did in japan was break up the zaibatsu, because they wanted to ensure that Japanese conglomerates could no longer wield global power. Granted they were outsmarted on that (with the keiretsu), but the intent was to limit Japanese economic power while opening up a captive consumer market.

USA don’t give a s**t about global democracy as long as you buy their stuff, and they can own your land/capital.
 
rfctiger74 said:
It’s not what you meant, but it’s what american meant. First thing the USA did in japan was break up the zaibatsu, because they wanted to ensure that Japanese conglomerates could no longer wield global power. Granted they were outsmarted on that (with the keiretsu), but the intent was to limit Japanese economic power while opening up a captive consumer market.

USA don’t give a s**t about global democracy as long as you buy their stuff, and they can own your land/capital.
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Yeah sure, the US dismantled the fascist Japanese state and remodelled their economy, and instead of jaunting around slaughtering people in East Asia like they did for the first half of the 20th century, the Japanese became one of the most modern countries in the world. Same goes for Germany.

Meanwhile in China, proudly defending themselves from Americanisation ... how many Uyghurs are in gulags?
 
its free real estate said:
Yeah sure, the US dismantled the fascist Japanese state and remodelled their economy, and instead of jaunting around slaughtering people in East Asia like they did for the first half of the 20th century, the Japanese became one of the most modern countries in the world. Same goes for Germany.

Meanwhile in China, proudly defending themselves from Americanisation ... how many Uyghurs are in gulags?
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Where have I approved of the political oppression in China? Link please

What I don't approve of is this notion everyone has to model their political and economic system to the way the USA wants

Chinese people are happy with the CCP. It's their call not to be democratic, not ours
 

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rfctiger74 said:
Where have I approved of the political oppression in China? Link please
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Nowhere. However, you heavily imply that the US is perfidious in foreign affairs, and that China is right not to trust them. The implication may be true, but if the by products of US deceit is relatively peaceful, free and tolerant countries like Germany and Japan, while the Chinese defence of its affairs leads to an increasingly fascist and authoritarian state, then how truly pernicious is US influence?

Chinese people are happy with the CCP. It's their call not to be democratic, not ours
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Which Chinese people? How many Uyghurs are in gulags?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps
 
its free real estate said:
Nowhere. However, you heavily imply that the US is perfidious in foreign affairs, and that China is right not to trust them. The implication may be true, but if the by products of US deceit is relatively peaceful, free and tolerant countries like Germany and Japan, while the Chinese defence of its affairs leads to an increasingly fascist and authoritarian state, then how truly pernicious is US influence?


Which Chinese people? How many Uyghurs are in gulags?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps
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I don't think Australia should completely trust the USA on foreign policy. We were lied to about the gulf war (which I accepted at the time), the Vietnam war, and they have interfered in our elections.

As for the urghurs, I think they like Tibet should be independent. Reality is in China the Han completely dominate population in most areas except a few like these two, so minorities have little if any voice in the party
 
It's funny how the pendulum swings. Some 10 years ago i was scrambling to secure funding from Europe for my project in China, now i have projects in Europe through Chinese government, while funds are coming from China. It's noteworthy that China is working with India now, on their infrastructure (but to the media they are arch enemies). I have business relations with China and they want nothing but good relations with both Russia and India. This might not go down well with the US.
 
rfctiger74 said:
I don't think Australia should completely trust the USA on foreign policy. We were lied to about the gulf war (which I accepted at the time), the Vietnam war, and they have interfered in our elections.
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Australia should not completely trust any country on foreign policy. But there are some countries we should trust more than others. China is one of the countries we should trust the least.
 
Total Power said:
It's funny how the pendulum swings. Some 10 years ago i was scrambling to secure funding from Europe for my project in China, now i have projects in Europe through Chinese government, while funds are coming from China. It's noteworthy that China is working with India now, on their infrastructure (but to the media they are arch enemies). I have business relations with China and they want nothing but good relations with both Russia and India. This might not go down well with the US.
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12-36 months ago our biggest mandate was securing war metals for India in preparation of a long sustained war against China. Although the momentum started continues the focus from India is more about the economy, steel industry and power rather than straight out war.

Russia still feels threatened though as Chinese troops have crossed the Russian border and illegally logging and mining. The Russian military is responding with automation whilst the mafia is just happy taking bribes from the chinese for social licence.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
Another key reason for Ruprects current anti Andrews government campaign.....How do I count the ways.
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Conspiracy theories aside, with the federal libs against it, it will be interesting to see what they and the states do

Feds are supporting trump on everything, but NT is already in discussions to sign up. Reckon NSW libs will be massively conflicted - wanna keep the feds happy, bit dont want Vic to be home of Chinese investment
 
rfctiger74 said:
Conspiracy theories aside, with the federal libs against it, it will be interesting to see what they and the states do

Feds are supporting trump on everything, but NT is already in discussions to sign up. Reckon NSW libs will be massively conflicted - wanna keep the feds happy, bit dont want Vic to be home of Chinese investment
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There's no conspiracy about it....It's a fact.

All these new green energy wind-farms going up in Victoria, are joint ventures between the Vic Labor Govt & Chinese business consortiums....Ruprect & Gina have massive investment & interests in not seeing that continuing on.
 
Interesting reading on the weekend - Chinese now own 10% of Barossa wineries (I believe it's measured in acreage)
 
Mofra said:
Interesting reading on the weekend - Chinese now own 10% of Barossa wineries (I believe it's measured in acreage)
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We saw what happened to the price of Japanese whiskey when the world got a taste for it.

Imagine the price of wine and add beef to that when China and India get a real taste for them.

The mining boom to the dining boom
 
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