China's growing influence | Page 8 | BigFooty

China's growing influence

Discussion in 'International Events and Politics' started by Mofra, May 17, 2018.

  1. smokingjacket

    smokingjacket Premiership Player

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    What products would they be mass producing that still have CFC's in them? My understanding was that there were better alternatives at a similar price. Cheap refigerants for the Chinese market?

    I couldn't think of any off the top of my head and the pieces I've seen online can only come up with running stocks down but this NYT article seems to imply production of new CFC's. Very odd.

    Maybe this has something to do with refrigeration for quantum computing?
     

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  2. Pessimistic

    Pessimistic TheBrownDog

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    There was a huge factor of USA v EU, $US v $EU in that war. then along comes brexit
     
  3. LeverPuller

    LeverPuller BigFooty Tanker

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  4. smokingjacket

    smokingjacket Premiership Player

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    Pretty brutal hit piece on Bob Carr and his Chinese advocacy in the AFR this morning. Stops just short of calling him an agent of CCP intelligence.

    https://www.afr.com/opinion/what-you-should-know-about-bob-carr-and-china-20181105-h17jic
     
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  5. its free real estate

    its free real estate Club Legend

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    Spooks openly call him that
     
  6. smokingjacket

    smokingjacket Premiership Player

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    The AFR piece has a few strong 'drop' vibes, both in content and author, but Fitzgerald did do a lot of the legwork with Clive Hamilton for Silent Invasion so my auto-skepticism around these anti-China stories is probably doing a great disservice to Fitzgeralds knowledge of the Aus-Sino relationship, and the players involved.

    I have to say, I've always had a lot of time for Bob Carr, and even as I've been watching his drift towards becoming an outright propagandist for a while now, I've always been willing to hear him out for a couple of reasons: Mainly, because that's what he's paid to do. I don't have a problem with China having lobbyists in Australia. They're our largest trading partner and exert far less influence on our foreign policy than Israel or the US. One of the very strong points Carr continues to make is the absence of a domestic Chinese lobby in Australian politics, either for CCP goals, or a rabidly anti-communist diaspora that might pull Australian policy towards Cuban like symbolic statements of anti-communism, possibly not in our economic interests.

    I've always very generously labelled Carr's excesses in defending China as swinging too far when defending a contrarian position - like the excellence and benefit of the CCP - when confronted by hostile US aligned security types or general audiences that have typically only heard the spooky version. Mainly because I'm aware I do it myself. That passage about getting Garnaut on record in parliament is an absolutely brutal open mouth moment, and extremely disappointing from an ex-Foreign Minister, even if he has his own views about what Australia's best interests are. I don't know how he'll be able to maintain his working level relationships with politicians anymore when everyone will be avoiding him like the plague else they look like Dastyari just for talking to him.
     
  7. Gough

    Gough Moderator

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    I'd ask yourself why a man like Carr with as much knowledge of American history as he does appears to want to throw his lot in with Chinese.
     
  8. its free real estate

    its free real estate Club Legend

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    Money.
     
  9. smokingjacket

    smokingjacket Premiership Player

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    You think? I mean I know he plays it up wanting the first class lifestyle in his books but he's always struck me as too self aware for that.

    He has delusions of grandeur and wants to be a great statesman. I think he saw the perfect opportunity to attach himself and his aspirations as global diplomat to the growth of Chinese power. It's very difficult for an Australian to break through to become an international statesman in the US system because they have their own priorities and if you can't insert yourself into their establishment, David Kilcullen style, you're competing for thinktank positions against all the other power hungry ex-diplomats from the US treaty partners across the world. IMO he saw himself playing the world diplomat, slowly building his clout with the Chinese and triangulating interests between Australia, China and the US, a bit like Rudd but from a different angle. Maybe use the Chinese connections to have a crack at a UN position at some point or leverage a big think tank role.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
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  10. its free real estate

    its free real estate Club Legend

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    Yeah in Carr’s case it’s probably ego
     
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  11. smokingjacket

    smokingjacket Premiership Player

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    The Chinese are known for their absolute mastery of ego flattery too.

    Have you read the stories of Elon Musk meeting CCP officials in Beijing?
     

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  12. Present Not Past

    Present Not Past Norm Smith Medallist

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    The Chinese Government wants to go to war with the US and it's allies.
    It has no other choice in order to secure it's South China Sea holdings.
    China believes that once it has bloodied the US, they will then be left alone.
     
  13. smokingjacket

    smokingjacket Premiership Player

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    I doubt that very much tbh. China already has a very strong defensive position in the SCS that's improving each month. Their anti-air and anti-ship missile systems have flipped the burden of proof underlying naval force projection to the point that it's very much for the US Navy to prove that they could operate within the first island chain in a conflict, let alone the areas of access denial closer to the coast, without taking catastrophic losses. Basically, their land holdings in the SCS are secure already.
     
  14. smokingjacket

    smokingjacket Premiership Player

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    We'll give Bob a reply, not specifically to this mornings article but a recent piece that explains his positions. It's simultaneously quite reasonable and also an insight into why he might not be a Five Eyes favourite right now.

    Australians have no interest in joining US cold war against China
    https://www.australiachinarelations...no-interest-joining-us-cold-war-against-china
     
  15. smokingjacket

    smokingjacket Premiership Player

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    Lol at trying to do the flattery thing to Xi Jinping.

     
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