Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[Partridge]

This is probably the worst post I've ever seen

No issue then. We just need to watch Friday night to see how they disproved it.

Henderson is one who needs a good final desperately. There's no excuse this year for how he played.

 

[Vdubs]

That one poor game was the most important game of the year. And it's been more than one too.

Those players you listed, yep that's the theory, they make flag a possibility. None of them had good games on Friday night. Scott Selwood at least put in a committed four quarter effort. If they aren't able to perform September what exactly did we recruit them for?

Next Friday is our most important GOTY, btw.
I can accept that other teams simply have better players. Better suited to exerting and withstanding sustained pressure. Our boys tried their hardest on Friday. The only reason I get embarrassed is the ridiculous pre game predictions about our likely smashing of teams. I hope against hope we can deliver in finals, but am not at all angry we don't, or simply can't. When it comes to going the next step, we are found wanting because as a group, we are not good enough.
Does not guarantee we may not pull off some Herculean effort on Friday, but no way do we have the capacity to follow that up the week after.
Possibilities, yes.
Likelies, no.
We saw needs in our team after our immortals one by one left, and tried to do some patch work. Good enough to win us 33.5 games in the past 2 seasons. Not good enough to win a flag. So be it. 10 OTHER TEAMS would love our opportunity this week.

 

[thecatattack]

No issue then. We just need to watch Friday night to see how they disproved it.

Henderson is one who needs a good final desperately. There's no excuse this year for how he played.

He had one where he killed it at Calton.

22 touches and 9 marks

But just because our whole ****ing team was trash doesn't mean these dudes are B graders or "inside mids with no disposal".

Some of you guys need to calm the **** down with the reactionary opinions.

 

[Partridge]

He had one where he killed it at Calton.

22 touches and 9 marks

But just because our whole ******* team was trash doesn't mean these dudes are B graders or "inside mids with no disposal".

Some of you guys need to calm the **** down with the reactionary opinions.

Wasn't my opinion. But I agree with a lot of the points.

Dangerfield is top drawer obviously. But his disposal can be erratic and was awful Friday night.

I am not convinced on any of the others. Henderson I was, but that's two rubbish finals in a row now. Like I said, needs to do better than that.

These guys were brought in as ready to go, established mature players to deliver. And deliver in September. So that's what I'm expecting.

 

[Vdubs]

Tuohy is a B grader
Danger is an inside mid only, with limited disposal
SS is another inside mid who cant kick
Henderson is a good KB but we had 2 good ones already
Smith is an average ruck

these players dont turn us into a premiership side

maybe if we got a good CHF, a couple of good small forwards, an outside mid and a few more elite players who can hit targets and a good game plan we might be a flag chance

Tell us who we go for that suffices these needs.
Name your good available CHF, and small forwards, and outside mid.
And how do we get them?
Injuries to Linc, Gregson, Cockatoo this year have devastated us, not that they are A graders in evolution, but they are spunky in their positions.
We have had to make do with kids all season, out of position (Parsons), and Parfitt, which will be great for their futures, but not really ok for competing this year.
Motlop our elite outside mid, has continued to disappoint. We could not trade him.
Menzel- we are lucky to get any single game out of him, and he is a year to year prospect only.

 

[Vdubs]

Wasn't my opinion. But I agree with a lot of the points.

Dangerfield is top drawer obviously. But his disposal can be erratic and was awful Friday night.

I am not convinced on any of the others. Henderson I was, but that's two rubbish finals in a row now. Like I said, needs to do better than that.

These guys were brought in as ready to go, established mature players to deliver. And deliver in September. So that's what I'm expecting.

Good points, but disagree with expecting. Hoping for is more accurate. We had substantially more talent in 2008,2010 for starters and they could not deliver.
There are too many variables, but as you are no doubt aware, Geelong, Hawthorn and Bulldogs had extraordinary success with BOTH AFL and VFL teams when they won flags. No coincidence. It is cause and effect. A healthy list, with blokes competing for spots, is a recipe for AFL premiership success according to the last 10 years. Tigers this year, no injuries, and could likely win both flags.
We, on the other hand, struggled to offer a ready viable inside mid in case Selwood was not ready. Guthrie out this week, Menzel in, but there just is no replacement, we are list poor.

 

[Reg Hickey]

Tuohy is a B grader
Danger is an inside mid only, with limited disposal
SS is another inside mid who cant kick
Henderson is a good KB but we had 2 good ones already
Smith is an average ruck

these players dont turn us into a premiership side

maybe if we got a good CHF, a couple of good small forwards, an outside mid and a few more elite players who can hit targets and a good game plan we might be a flag chance

Gee there's some crap posted on here. With the possible exception of Smith (who has filled a desperate need), those 5 players would all be best 22 in ANY side in the comp. All quality. They include a Brownlow Medallist (while at our club) and multiple B&F winners. That's an awesome trading haul whichever way you look at it.

And they, along with the rest of our list, have been good enough to get us to top two for the second year in a row. Got to be in it to win it. I'm the first to say that what they dished up on Friday wasn't acceptable, and that our performances in finals in the past couple of years have been poor, but that doesn't mean these trades were mistakes. I believe our list is good enough, there are other reasons why we haven't got there yet with this group.

As many have pointed out already, you go to the bottom there's no guarantee you can get back up any time soon. Just ask Saints, Demons, Blues, Lions, Tigers. Winning culture is massive. Just ask Swans and Hawks. Along with us, the power sides of the past decade, and both did it full of players they got from other clubs.

Sure, "a good CHF, a couple of good small forwards, an outside mid and a few more elite players who can hit targets" would improve us. Duh. That would improve anyone. But how exactly do you propose we get them? Trades are tough to get done and only some players are available, even fewer who want to come to your club AND you can afford. The draft is even tougher because they're just kids, so you need to develop them over a few years and even then many don't fulfil their potential. So what's your solution, genius? Hope they just walk in off the street? Maybe we can plant some seeds in the backyard and grow them?

 

[Ricketz]

Wasn't my opinion. But I agree with a lot of the points.

Dangerfield is top drawer obviously. But his disposal can be erratic and was awful Friday night.

I am not convinced on any of the others. Henderson I was, but that's two rubbish finals in a row now. Like I said, needs to do better than that.

These guys were brought in as ready to go, established mature players to deliver. And deliver in September. So that's what I'm expecting.

No team has the players you want. No team can get the players you want. Even GWS doesn't have the players you want. You are asking for players who can always turn it on in September, and there are not too many of those - not enough to make up a full team, anyway.

Its not Chris Scott's fault that your expectations are OTT

 

[Landgraft]

Where you have been? That's not the important part, think of where he's come from. What a story!

At some bizarre point, the story - where a player comes from - has become far more important and more celebrated than substance and whether they can actually play the game. Then fans wonder why we get found out in finals.

Well the good news if we come up against the Crows is at least we'll have an abundance of straw men for our corn fields

FMD, I was just listing some examples of how a player can have impacts on the squad divergent from boiling them down to a fantasy football chess piece. Now apparently I was saying that we have to recruit Gaelic players in the hopes of a compelling narrative.

I presume you take offence to any and all aspects of scouting that look at a candidates character.

 

[catempire]

Maybe if we could recruit players who could perform in September. That would be nice too.

Great idea! All this time they've been trying to recruit players who'd fail in September!

 

[dazbroncos]

Tell us who we go for that suffices these needs.
Name your good available CHF, and small forwards, and outside mid.
And how do we get them?
Injuries to Linc, Gregson, Cockatoo this year have devastated us, not that they are A graders in evolution, but they are spunky in their positions.
We have had to make do with kids all season, out of position (Parsons), and Parfitt, which will be great for their futures, but not really ok for competing this year.
Motlop our elite outside mid, has continued to disappoint. We could not trade him.
Menzel- we are lucky to get any single game out of him, and he is a year to year prospect only.

He cant.. There is no was Touhy was a bad trade. We have had some no doubt - but that aint it - and looking to replace Boris with something better is shows the level of fantasy being deployed as a baseline.

GO Catters

 

[Partridge]

No team has the players you want. No team can get the players you want. Even GWS doesn't have the players you want. You are asking for players who can always turn it on in September, and there are not too many of those - not enough to make up a full team, anyway.

Its not Chris Scott's fault that your expectations are OTT

Well that's very nice but you actually have no conception of what I want.

It would appear you and I have differing views on this.

 

[cynical]

This is probably the worst post I've ever seen

I guess you dont pay attention in games.

We lost a prelim last year in the first quarter and our first big final this year we get done by a finals hardened side in Richmond (who did their best to keep us in it).

I'm sorry Danger is the best player in the comp, Tuohy is an elite hbf, SS is an A grader, Henderson is an A grader and Smith is a great ruck.

Maybe if they try harder this week surely they will win, was just a bad day.

Take off your rose coloured glasses.

 

[Ricketz]

Well that's very nice but you actually have no conception of what I want.

It would appear you and I have differing views on this.

Huh? You say it right here:

"These guys were brought in as ready to go, established mature players to deliver. And deliver in September. So that's what I'm expecting."

And you are using their performance in September as an argument to say that our trade over draft strategy is a failure. So tell me where I have misunderstood you.

 

[cynical]

Tell us who we go for that suffices these needs.
Name your good available CHF, and small forwards, and outside mid.
And how do we get them?
Injuries to Linc, Gregson, Cockatoo this year have devastated us, not that they are A graders in evolution, but they are spunky in their positions.
We have had to make do with kids all season, out of position (Parsons), and Parfitt, which will be great for their futures, but not really ok for competing this year.
Motlop our elite outside mid, has continued to disappoint. We could not trade him.
Menzel- we are lucky to get any single game out of him, and he is a year to year prospect only.

Best to ask someone who watches the juniors cos you cant just trade all those players in. Carltons 2nd round pick isnt going to turn into 5+ good players.

 

[Ricketz]

I guess you dont pay attention in games.

We lost a prelim last year in the first quarter and our first big final this year we get done by a finals hardened side in Richmond (who did their best to keep us in it).

I'm sorry Danger is the best player in the comp, Tuohy is an elite hbf, SS is an A grader, Henderson is an A grader and Smith is a great ruck.

Maybe if they try harder this week surely they will win, was just a bad day.

Take off your rose coloured glasses.

Seriously...
Danger, Selwood, Smith and Tuohy all can hold their heads up high after Friday - I am pretty sure you must not have watched the game to pick 4 of the best Cats players to rag on.

 

[Partridge]

Huh? You say it right here:
And you are using their performance in September as an argument to say that our trade over draft strategy is a failure. So tell me where I have misunderstood you.

If the team loses this week, then at this stage I'm absolutely saying it's a failure.

 

[Partridge]

Seriously...
Danger, Selwood, Smith and Tuohy all can hold their heads up high after Friday - I am pretty sure you must not have watched the game to pick 4 of the best Cats players to rag on.

They weren't the 4 worst. But only Selwood could claim to be in the 4 best.

 

[lettheboysplay]

Tuohy is a B grader
Danger is an inside mid only, with limited disposal
SS is another inside mid who cant kick
Henderson is a good KB but we had 2 good ones already
Smith is an average ruck

these players dont turn us into a premiership side

maybe if we got a good CHF, a couple of good small forwards, an outside mid and a few more elite players who can hit targets and a good game plan we might be a flag chance

Please, for the good of everyone, just stop posting.

 

[cynical]

Seriously...
Danger, Selwood, Smith and Tuohy all can hold their heads up high after Friday - I am pretty sure you must not have watched the game to pick 4 of the best Cats players to rag on.

Danger was terrible, he had 9 clangers. Scott Selwood tried hard as did the rest but none had any impact. Doesn't really matter how well they played regardless.

The point was wasting draft picks on players has turned out to be a failure because our core group isnt good enough

 

[selwoodsbandage]

Seems we have had two clear options since our "era" has come to a close :
> retire the champs progressively , probably slip down the ladder as we top the list up with the resultant lower draft picks - major rebuild strategy
> retire the champs progressively , fill the gaps by trading on a needs basis by using picks and making the most of resultant higher draft picks - major top up strategy
> ensure we are financially strong in order to facilitate the stadium rebuild and secure our future as having our own home ground

There is lots of available evidence so I'll choose a few examples :
> Hawks won their flags with the top up model and whilst they missed finals this year seem well placed to contend again in 2018 with further use of the top up model plus development of players most of whom were higher type picks
> Dees ,Saints and Blues have gone the rebuild and none are playing finals , long journey so far and no guarantees of this happening in 2018
> Giants are stack full of sub 10 picks but still have the job ahead of them
> Cats have grown Membership and are well placed financially

I think the Club has chosen the right strategy for both on and off field reasons

Right strategy on field is judged by one stat only. Wins in September. We have rebuilt somewhat this year and done extremely well to finish 2nd after R23 whilst blooding 7 debutants. But what good does it do to get smashed in finals? Who is happy with that?

Near enough is good enough is creeping back into this club's supporter base.

Losing finals (or winning because oppo misses after siren) is so shit house I would rather save my time, money, emotional investment and go back to the early 2000s of watching us build a great side from scratch.

We have cashed in that style of rebuild to win another flag with Selwood as captain. If we do not win one it will all be for nothing as when he retires we will be worse off than any of the poor teams you mentioned for a lot longer than them.

 

[selwoodsbandage]

I'm guessing I'm much older than you. If so, we look through a different lens, you and me.

So how did "near enough is good enough" ever work out for you?

2nd is the first loser.

 

[selwoodsbandage]

They've had some great early draft picks, though.

What more could a supporter ask for?

A stable administration from the top down is the most important thing to a football club. They were a basketcase for a long while. Hardly a good comparison.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

If the team loses this week, then at this stage I'm absolutely saying it's a failure.

The cattle isn't the issue mate

When they are let off their leashes they play an attacking brand of footy that wins 90% of games

They are hindered by a ridiculous game plan that revolves around zoning 5-10 metres off their opponents, and protecting an imaginary space.

Scott will never let it go........he goes back to it over and over again, and only unleashes the players when we need to catch up!

 

[Biggy_Boy]

So how did "near enough is good enough" ever work out for you?

2nd is the first loser.

Geelong's not even finishing second. If we were good enough to make GFs, it would be a different story. It's grating when the club goes all in on a premiership, and then consistently capitulates in finals.