imho
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isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?
it's the only "gift" i'v ever wished to have been blessed with ... (aside from being six inches taller)
imhoCurrent Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates
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it's the only "gift" i'v ever wished to have been blessed with ... (aside from being six inches taller)
imho
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I'm not sure hindsight applies in this case. There seems to have been a trail of breadisn't hindsight a wonderful thing?
it's the only "gift" i'v ever wished to have been blessed with ... (aside from being six inches taller)
imho
Well yes and no.....isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?
it's the only "gift" i'v ever wished to have been blessed with ... (aside from being six inches taller)
Power Raid
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you have to remember this is the 90s and everything would have been paper records, especially driver log books. The concept of negligence didn't exist, rather it was expected.
Also being a government organisation which meant it was stuck in the 60s or 70s. You can see from the promotional pics, fraternisation in the workforce was OK.
Being telecommunications it would have had a very military like division and department structure
Adding to that, the company was preparing for an IPO with mass lay offs and low morale.
Telecom was big, dumb, lazy and cumbersome. It is guilty of those things but they should not be guilty of an "act of one's own folly".
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It may be the scant and sometimes unreliable details on the blog that said BRE was under the expert for a sleep study, not the sleep clinic.
With the information that came out in the blog concentrating on the date of separation BRE had told the Dr I assumed it was one of those studies that come up now and again and advertise for participant.
This may be wrong and all the medical information associated with drugs that you're talking about may be suppressed or just I've not seen it reported.
According to the wife, he would literally spend his entire home life on the PC. Not even Teenagers watch that much pr0n. It would have to be gaming/chat rooms.
Nah, he was a budding author.
Willow weeps
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And why didn't the police request the names drivers not on the first two lists? Cover all bases no matter what as should have the lady supplying them. I guess she'll have to live with a heavy burden if he's found guilty
Fair bit of assumption and hindsight going on.
The telstra connections are only obvious now because the accused was a telstra employee. But back in the 90’s they had no idea who was responsible, they were tracking down anyone who was in the area, it would have been thousands of lines of enquires, what makes you think a handful of telstra references would stand out any more than all the others.
As it turns out they did follow the telstra leads, and they did request from telstra precisely the information that would have identified him. Telstra didn’t provide complete information. If telstra we’re incapable of providing a complete list for this request, what makes you think they would’ve provided a complete list for another request.
Do you not think that after the KK rape police didn’t interview anyone that had a history of sexual assault, problem is he wasn’t convicted of sexual assault but common assault , would not have been identified on database searches.
It’s a very unfortunate turn of events he could have been identified a number of times, but with a mixture of mistakes and dumb luck he stayed hidden.
They are not getting the Sleep Doctor up in court to testify about pencil sharpeners sleep apnea , snoring or haemorrhoids . Period.
BRE has mentioned to the sleep doctor about his marital problems and heavy drinking as relevant to his symptoms-not by way of general chit chat, which fits in with the prosecution theory and is important. Thats why they got him up there. Yes the sleeping tablet medication is only speculation so far but interestingly was suggested when first photos of the accused surfaced .
As Far as Perths Culture..yes some valid points-however you left out another-as far as getting a " good job "in those days the golden rule was " its not what you know -its who you know.'
With Edwards did that axiom apply to "keeping a good job " as well ???.
Im sure we will find out. Has anyone ever seen a photo of the father, ??. Was reported that the father was BREs direct supervisor early on but seems to have gone quiet about it since..why>?
As far as Telstras Culpability and responsibility- please...its not enough that this guy KEPT HIS JOB after attacking a woman in broad daylight whilst in company uniform causing her to "fight for her life".... leaving him free to continue cruising the streets in his company supplied vehicle and go on to commit a vicious rape and be accused of 3 murders....
.He then doesn't show up on two BCI requests made to Telstra despite being a convicted sex offender with form in the precise area the attacks are taking place...???????????........Hmmmmmmmmm
Telstra has certainly got some explaining to do.
BRE has mentioned to the sleep doctor about his marital problems and heavy drinking as relevant to his symptoms-not by way of general chit chat, which fits in with the prosecution theory and is important. Thats why they got him up there. Yes the sleeping tablet medication is only speculation so far but interestingly was suggested when first photos of the accused surfaced .
As Far as Perths Culture..yes some valid points-however you left out another-as far as getting a " good job "in those days the golden rule was " its not what you know -its who you know.'
With Edwards did that axiom apply to "keeping a good job " as well ???.
Im sure we will find out. Has anyone ever seen a photo of the father, ??. Was reported that the father was BREs direct supervisor early on but seems to have gone quiet about it since..why>?
As far as Telstras Culpability and responsibility- please...its not enough that this guy KEPT HIS JOB after attacking a woman in broad daylight whilst in company uniform causing her to "fight for her life".... leaving him free to continue cruising the streets in his company supplied vehicle and go on to commit a vicious rape and be accused of 3 murders....
.He then doesn't show up on two BCI requests made to Telstra despite being a convicted sex offender with form in the precise area the attacks are taking place...???????????........Hmmmmmmmmm
Telstra has certainly got some explaining to do.
Likeamystery
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Macro visited Telstra inquiring about vehicles and who drove them. The Telstra employee/team responsible for collecting that information probably didn’t take into consideration Telstra employees who’d committed serious offences would still be gainfully employed.
Why would Telstra search through personnel files seeking who’s got a criminal record when they know the police already have that information – HH attack committed during work hours.
Government personnel files are usually kept with Human Resources section, under lock and key – never to be culled and retained for umpteen years after the employee has left the organisation.
If the HH incident isn’t on the personnel file, why not
. The accused’s file will be with the prosecution 
.
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Call me an alcoholic but its been reported he was a heavy drinker because he consumed ONE bottle of spirits per week? That's not even close to what most Australians would call "heavy".
Crow_WA
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The prosecution said from the outset, the accounts of a man prowling in a Telstra vehicle will “broadly” fit the defendants physical description. That’s not unreasonable. This evidence highlights a pattern that is not likely to be a coincidence.
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WAToday Day 8.
Includes an interactive witness map which is pretty good.
www.watoday.com.au
And here:
live.24liveblog.com
Includes an interactive witness map which is pretty good.
Claremont killer trial LIVE: 'She looked like she was waiting for someone': Witness on night Sarah vanished
Day 8 of the trial of accused Claremont serial killer Bradley Edwards is expected to hear further evidence from women who the state claims received lifts from a man in a Telstra vehicle around the same period as when Sarah Spiers, Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon went missing.
And here:
Claremont serial killer trial live blog - day 8
The West Australian is back live blogging the trial of the alleged Claremont serial killer Bradley Robert Edwards
The February 1995 Karrakatta rape was carried out by an offender in a white van or similar, a white van with Telecom markings on it was observed to drive past Hollywood Hospital at some point after the victim was abducted from Rowe Park in Claremont, and a similar van with a person seated in it was observed on four or five occasions parked inside Karrakatta cemetery.
I'd think that's enough to support a "Telstra/Telecom" line of inquiry where every Telstra worker with a criminal conviction for an offence against the person could be considered a person of interest in the matter of the Karrakatta rape alone until eliminated.
Following the abductions and murders in 1996 with the 1995 rape still not resolved, that line of inquiry ought to have become much stronger.
I mean, just how many ex-cons did Telstra have working for them as technicians in the 1990s as to make it an insurmountable hurdle for Macro to examine each of those workers? How many work for them now?
As mentioned earlier in the thread, police had the fingerprints of Edwards in 1988 (taken from a house in the Huntingdale Prowler series of offences) and in 1990 (following his arrest for the Hollywood Hospital attack) but they were not matched. Had they been, a conviction might have been obtained for aggravated burglary and attempted sexual assault in relation to the Huntingdale burglary and aggravated attempted sexual assault in relation to the Hollywood Hospital attack.
BRE has slipped through the cracks so many times. We can now see MACRO was so close, yet so far.
11 reviews and still couldn't connect the dots. In hindsight we now know the specific questions that should have been asked. One being- have there been any 'assaults, sexual or otherwise on women in the last 5-10 years in a 5-10km radius of Claremont. or something similar.
Club Bay View, karracatta Cemetery and Hollywood Hospital are all within 5kms of each other.
Would this have really been so hard to work out, back 1996, without the use of computers?? The obvious answer is yes, keeping in mind all those cracks!
11 reviews and still couldn't connect the dots. In hindsight we now know the specific questions that should have been asked. One being- have there been any 'assaults, sexual or otherwise on women in the last 5-10 years in a 5-10km radius of Claremont. or something similar.
Club Bay View, karracatta Cemetery and Hollywood Hospital are all within 5kms of each other.
Would this have really been so hard to work out, back 1996, without the use of computers?? The obvious answer is yes, keeping in mind all those cracks!
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Emily's blog. Day 8.
And this morning's proceedings will begin with witness Tony Vomero, global payroll manager for Telstra.
Mr Vomero has worked at Telstra since 2013 and leads a payroll team across 21 countries.
He told the court he has more than 20 years experience in HR.
He said his role was managing the payroll system at Telstra.
Mr Vomero told the court he had been asked to prepare payroll information in relation to Mr Edwards for the purposes of this trial.
He is now going through the three different payroll systems Telstra had over the last few years.
When asked if he was able to extract data from these systems, he said yes.
Mr Vomero said after seven years the data is archived but they are able to extract data when required.
When asked if he was able to find information about the various positions, leave and pay details regarding Mr Edwards, Mr Vomero said he was.
Mr Vomero, and the court, is now being shown a number of documents relating to Mr Edwards' employment at Telstra.
Among those documents are an extract of Mr Edwards' birth certificate, his apprenticeship application from July 9, 1985, the appointment certificate confirming his employment with Telstra from January 28 1986, a letter from Telstra from 1987 confirming he had been made full time as well as his apprentice technician results.
The court is now being shown confirmation letters regarding Mr Edwards' promotions including the one where he was made a senior telecommunications technical officer in October, 1992. (Me: After he finished the sex offenders course?)
Documents showing money being deducted from Mr Edwards pay for his work uniform from October 6 1989 was also shown.
Ms Barbagallo has asked Mr Vomero if he was able to find the positions Mr Edwards held within the organisation.
Mr Vomero said he was with the court shown a document showing the titles that ranged from when he was an apprentice in 1986 to when he was made a grade 1 technical officer in June 1992.
The court is now being shown a document showing personal attributes for the job Mr Edwards applied for in April 3, 1992.
Under the personal attributes section, Mr Edwards wrote: "highly advantageous to have a careful plan of attack."
When asked by Justice Hall what was the relevance of this, Ms Barbagallo said it was relevant because that was how he saw himself in 1992.
Mr Vomero is now being shown documents from a Telstra directory from 1994 that includes Mr Edward's name, the position he held in the organisation, the address and his phone number.
He said Mr Edwards would have been based in Herdsman based on the phone number.
He then told the court Mr Edwards worked in the corporate international enterprise business.
When asked if he was able to extract a work schedule for Mr Edwards, he said no.
When asked about his payslips, Mr Vomero said he was able to extract payslips and was able to ascertain he worked a nine-day fortnight.
Mr Vomero was also asked if he was able to extract information about any additional overtime and allowances received by Mr Edwards.
The court was also shown a document regarding Mr Edwards pay. It showed he was paid $30,433 per year back in 1992 which also included various other allowances such as OT, disability and annual leave loading.
The court is now being shown documents that show when Mr Edwards was paid overtime, meal allowances and disability allowances between February and September 1995.
Mr Edwards raped the 17-year-old girl at Karrakatta cemetery on February 12, 1995. On February 11, Mr Edwards was paid two lots of overtime.
The court was also told Mr Edwards was paid disability allowance on September 7, 1995.
Mr Vomero said staff were paid a disability allowance when people were under adverse conditions.
Mr Vomero is being asked about extracting payslips again.
He told the court he was able to extract screenshots of Mr Edwards' payslips from the system.
The court has now adjourned for 15 minutes.
And we are back.
Mr Vomero is being taken through another of Mr Edwards' payslip from February 8, 1995 which shows his bank account being the R&I Bank (R&I became BankWest).
He also was shown payslips from March 22, 1995 which showed Mr Edwards had claimed overtime including for working a public holiday.
The court was shown more of Mr Edwards' payslips from February, March and June in 1996.
In the February 1996 payslip it showed Mr Edwards claimed two allowances on January 25, 1996 - the day before Australia Day and before Sarah Spiers went missing.
In the March 1996 payslip it showed he claimed an allowance for working a Sunday, a non-rostered shift.
The June 12 payslip was also shown to the court.
Ms Barbagallo has now asked if Mr Vomero was able to find any information about Mr Edwards' annual leave history.
He told the court he was able to find information relating to this.
The court was shown documents which showed Mr Edwards took miscellaneous leave on May 8, 1990 - the day after he attacked a social worker at Hollywood Hospital.
Mr Edwards pleaded guilty to the assault and received two years probation.
The court also heard Mr Edwards took sick leave on January 28, 1996 - the day after Sarah Spiers disappeared
He also took bereavement leave on January 15, 1997 and sick leave on March 7, 1997.
An occupational health and safety report relating to Mr Edwards from April 9, 1996 was also shown to the court.
Ms Barbagallo has asked Mr Vomero if Telstra had any records of Mr Edwards' attack on a social worker at Hollywood Hospital on May 7, 1990.
Mr Vomero said no, Telstra did not hold any records about the attack.
The court has now adjourned for half an hour.
And we are back.
Mr Yovich is cross-examining Mr Vomero about the overtime found on Mr Edwards' payslips.
When asked by Mr Yovich if it was true to say that the dates recorded on the payslips don't actually represent the day the person actually worked the overtime, he said he could not answer yes or no.
Mr Yovich asked if staff could claim for overtime worked on more than one day, Mr Vomero said yes.
But when asked if it was possible the total amount shown to the court from a particular payslip for 10 hours if that could be made up of multiple days, Mr Vomero could not answer.
"I couldn't confirm if it was worked on multiple days or not," he said
Mr Vomero also didn't agree with Mr Yovich's suggestion that the way overtime was recorded meant it could be explained by a number of different ways.
Mr Vomero has finished giving his evidence.
And this morning's proceedings will begin with witness Tony Vomero, global payroll manager for Telstra.
Mr Vomero has worked at Telstra since 2013 and leads a payroll team across 21 countries.
He told the court he has more than 20 years experience in HR.
He said his role was managing the payroll system at Telstra.
Mr Vomero told the court he had been asked to prepare payroll information in relation to Mr Edwards for the purposes of this trial.
He is now going through the three different payroll systems Telstra had over the last few years.
When asked if he was able to extract data from these systems, he said yes.
Mr Vomero said after seven years the data is archived but they are able to extract data when required.
When asked if he was able to find information about the various positions, leave and pay details regarding Mr Edwards, Mr Vomero said he was.
Mr Vomero, and the court, is now being shown a number of documents relating to Mr Edwards' employment at Telstra.
Among those documents are an extract of Mr Edwards' birth certificate, his apprenticeship application from July 9, 1985, the appointment certificate confirming his employment with Telstra from January 28 1986, a letter from Telstra from 1987 confirming he had been made full time as well as his apprentice technician results.
The court is now being shown confirmation letters regarding Mr Edwards' promotions including the one where he was made a senior telecommunications technical officer in October, 1992. (Me: After he finished the sex offenders course?)
Documents showing money being deducted from Mr Edwards pay for his work uniform from October 6 1989 was also shown.
Ms Barbagallo has asked Mr Vomero if he was able to find the positions Mr Edwards held within the organisation.
Mr Vomero said he was with the court shown a document showing the titles that ranged from when he was an apprentice in 1986 to when he was made a grade 1 technical officer in June 1992.
The court is now being shown a document showing personal attributes for the job Mr Edwards applied for in April 3, 1992.
Under the personal attributes section, Mr Edwards wrote: "highly advantageous to have a careful plan of attack."
When asked by Justice Hall what was the relevance of this, Ms Barbagallo said it was relevant because that was how he saw himself in 1992.
Mr Vomero is now being shown documents from a Telstra directory from 1994 that includes Mr Edward's name, the position he held in the organisation, the address and his phone number.
He said Mr Edwards would have been based in Herdsman based on the phone number.
He then told the court Mr Edwards worked in the corporate international enterprise business.
When asked if he was able to extract a work schedule for Mr Edwards, he said no.
When asked about his payslips, Mr Vomero said he was able to extract payslips and was able to ascertain he worked a nine-day fortnight.
Mr Vomero was also asked if he was able to extract information about any additional overtime and allowances received by Mr Edwards.
The court was also shown a document regarding Mr Edwards pay. It showed he was paid $30,433 per year back in 1992 which also included various other allowances such as OT, disability and annual leave loading.
The court is now being shown documents that show when Mr Edwards was paid overtime, meal allowances and disability allowances between February and September 1995.
Mr Edwards raped the 17-year-old girl at Karrakatta cemetery on February 12, 1995. On February 11, Mr Edwards was paid two lots of overtime.
The court was also told Mr Edwards was paid disability allowance on September 7, 1995.
Mr Vomero said staff were paid a disability allowance when people were under adverse conditions.
Mr Vomero is being asked about extracting payslips again.
He told the court he was able to extract screenshots of Mr Edwards' payslips from the system.
The court has now adjourned for 15 minutes.
And we are back.
Mr Vomero is being taken through another of Mr Edwards' payslip from February 8, 1995 which shows his bank account being the R&I Bank (R&I became BankWest).
He also was shown payslips from March 22, 1995 which showed Mr Edwards had claimed overtime including for working a public holiday.
The court was shown more of Mr Edwards' payslips from February, March and June in 1996.
In the February 1996 payslip it showed Mr Edwards claimed two allowances on January 25, 1996 - the day before Australia Day and before Sarah Spiers went missing.
In the March 1996 payslip it showed he claimed an allowance for working a Sunday, a non-rostered shift.
The June 12 payslip was also shown to the court.
Ms Barbagallo has now asked if Mr Vomero was able to find any information about Mr Edwards' annual leave history.
He told the court he was able to find information relating to this.
The court was shown documents which showed Mr Edwards took miscellaneous leave on May 8, 1990 - the day after he attacked a social worker at Hollywood Hospital.
Mr Edwards pleaded guilty to the assault and received two years probation.
The court also heard Mr Edwards took sick leave on January 28, 1996 - the day after Sarah Spiers disappeared
He also took bereavement leave on January 15, 1997 and sick leave on March 7, 1997.
An occupational health and safety report relating to Mr Edwards from April 9, 1996 was also shown to the court.
Ms Barbagallo has asked Mr Vomero if Telstra had any records of Mr Edwards' attack on a social worker at Hollywood Hospital on May 7, 1990.
Mr Vomero said no, Telstra did not hold any records about the attack.
The court has now adjourned for half an hour.
And we are back.
Mr Yovich is cross-examining Mr Vomero about the overtime found on Mr Edwards' payslips.
When asked by Mr Yovich if it was true to say that the dates recorded on the payslips don't actually represent the day the person actually worked the overtime, he said he could not answer yes or no.
Mr Yovich asked if staff could claim for overtime worked on more than one day, Mr Vomero said yes.
But when asked if it was possible the total amount shown to the court from a particular payslip for 10 hours if that could be made up of multiple days, Mr Vomero could not answer.
"I couldn't confirm if it was worked on multiple days or not," he said
Mr Vomero also didn't agree with Mr Yovich's suggestion that the way overtime was recorded meant it could be explained by a number of different ways.
Mr Vomero has finished giving his evidence.
- Dec 27, 2016
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Anybody else still wondering if Telstra has no responsibility here, or do we need more?
This was after the HH attack which was when he was on the job as a Telstra employee.
Couldn't that just be answer to how do you solve problens/what's an important factor of problem solving on the job?
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It was under "Personal Attributes"
Eaglette01
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Wed 04/12/19 – Week 2 – Day 8 – 10am:
Recap from yesterday (Tues) - It was a massive day in court, with eight witnesses taking the stand, including the woman who was attacked from behind by Bradley Robert Edwards in 1990, who spoke about her ordeal publicly for the first time.
Police were looking into Telstra vehicles – and who was driving them – as early as July 1996, a month after Bradley Robert Edwards allegedly snatched Jane Rimmer from Claremont and before the third victim was taken.
Edit: The lovely shellyg is blogging the blogger today
Wed 04/12/19 – Week 2 – Day 8 – 10am:
Recap from yesterday (Tues) - It was a massive day in court, with eight witnesses taking the stand, including the woman who was attacked from behind by Bradley Robert Edwards in 1990, who spoke about her ordeal publicly for the first time.
Police were looking into Telstra vehicles – and who was driving them – as early as July 1996, a month after Bradley Robert Edwards allegedly snatched Jane Rimmer from Claremont and before the third victim was taken.
Edit: The lovely shellyg is blogging the blogger today
Last edited:
Yeah and under "where do you see yourself in 5 years" he wrote "psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est, fa-fa-fa-fa, fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better".
I mean the signs were all there Telstra, you fools
monsieur your french is impeccable.
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