Cleanout Mk 3

[Mr Magic]

Heard the recruiting officer who works with FJ (forgot his name) speaking yesterday and he said if the season pans out the way they think it will we will have pick 12-18, also said this year's draft crop dosent run as deep as previous years so they are working extra hard to find a steal like Conca was last year...

This might be a good year to trade a couple of picks for an established Ruckman or KPB

Alternatively, we should be looking at 17 year olds which apparently we are, getting a solid pick at of the so-called first 20 which apparently are a little better than the rest and search hard and long for the diamonds in the rough at the second pick.

But I know little about the crop of 18 /17 year olds I must say!!

We also could possibly trade our first pick for a higher GWS first pick if the player we want is worth. Big if and I wouldn't know if appropriate for the Tigers this year!!

 

[santa claws]

Everyone Tiger supporter who is looking at our list objectively would agree, what people should be debating is how many players will we de-list every year for the next 3-4 years.

If we are looking at getting rid of about 23-25 players over the next 3-4 years that would mean at a minimum 6 players de-listed every year, which if you think about it is pretty much the average for all teams these days. Our problem is, is that we need to get rid of duds that are firmly sitting in our best 22, where other clubs would have the luxury of de-listing a couple of fringe players and a few rookies.

One thing I would suggest and I would like to think you would agree with me on is that we cant get rid of all our mature bodied players all in the one draft, what we need to do is slowly weed out the players in our 22 while getting rid f the junk on our rookie list and other fringe players such as Nason, Webberley, Taylor etc.

This year I would look at getting rid of.

Taylor (Waste of time wont be coming back)
Nason (To small and doesn't have a very good skill set)
Hislop (Really needs to show something in the last 5 or so weeks otherwise gone)
Tuck (I would prefer to hold onto as depth but the guy needs the chance at another AFL career at a different club)
Hicks (Is barely doing enough at VFL reserves level)
Thursfield (Simply not good enough)

That's 6 players, and in a compromised draft is deep enough, possibly in 2012 and onwards the club can look at cutting the list deeper per year.

In 2012 if the following players don't show signs of genuine improvement then they must go.

Westhoff
Contin (I really hope this kid gets a shot this year)
Webberley
McGuane (Only if all 3 of Grimes, Astbury and Rance can form a good defensive unit together)
Post (I thought he was good on the weekend and never stopped trying, needs a good run at it but if he doesn't show the same graph of improvement Rance has showed then he must go)
Morton (De-listed/Traded either way he needs to get out on the park and cement his spot in the team)

You can then throw in 2013 if certain players don't dramatically improve.

Farmer
Gourdis
Miller
White
Graham (Only if we find a better option)
O'Reilly (2011 is a ride off for him with injury, showed enough signs in his limited game time that he deserves to be persisted with)

And then anything after that the club starts getting rid of Rookies/Fringe players and upgrades on certain 22 players such as Jackson and Edwards.

The list needs a good turn over, my belief is that it will take 2 possibly 3 drafts before we have a best 22 worthy of playing finals, it will take another 1-2 drafts to build the quality depth needed to cover for injuries.

yep i would agree wth most of that. only diference is id be looking at 8 not 6.
mcguane and thiursfield still leaves gourdis rance moore astbury and grimes. so add mcguane to thursty, then draft a young big bodied kpd to the list in their place.

white is another no great loss and we have what he brings to the team well and truly covered. remember we have the adelaide pick, so with this pick we will have something like picks 14 or 16 an early 20s pick with the adelaide compo and picks around 34 52, im hoping we can trade into a late 2nd 3rd rounder, utilise a late pick on an experienced player or kid and our psd pick on an experienced player,most of the rookies are two yrs in, a decision has to be made its easy to do 8 compromised draft or not.
as has been shown last yr even with a compromised draft there were some worthwhile targets late in the draft.
yep i do agree with most of what you have said.

oh one thing if we get rid of tuck i think it important that we get a big bodied inside ball winning mid to replace him. in fact id be looking for a few kids or otherwise.
believe it or not he is one id hang onto for now because imo this is a serious list deficiency. i suppose we all have our favorites. but favorites or not it is a list weakness.
i suppoise with tuck hardwick is weighing up the need for more stoppage power against turnovers and defensive pressure. what i dont get is tuck gives us something we lack and hes no more lacking in turnovers and defensive pressure than many we do play.

 

[MightyTiger]

yep i would agree wth most of that. only diference is id be looking at 8 not 6.
mcguane and thiursfield still leaves gourdis rance moore astbury and grimes. so add mcguane to thursty, then draft a young big bodied kpd to the list in their place.

white is another no great loss and we have what he brings to the team well and truly covered. remember we have the adelaide pick, so with this pick we will have something like picks 14 or 16 an early 20s pick with the adelaide compo and picks around 34 52, im hoping we can trade into a late 2nd 3rd rounder, utilise a late pick on an experienced player or kid and our psd pick on an experienced player,most of the rookies are two yrs in, a decision has to be made its easy to do 8 compromised draft or not.
as has been shown last yr even with a compromised draft there were some worthwhile targets late in the draft.
yep i do agree with most of what you have said.

oh one thing if we get rid of tuck i think it important that we get a big bodied inside ball winning mid to replace him. in fact id be looking for a few kids or otherwise.
believe it or not he is one id hang onto for now because imo this is a serious list deficiency. i suppose we all have our favorites. but favorites or not it is a list weakness.
i suppoise with tuck hardwick is weighing up the need for more stoppage power against turnovers and defensive pressure. what i dont get is tuck gives us something we lack and hes no more lacking in turnovers and defensive pressure than many we do play.

Agree with all of this (Is this a first SC? ) however we need to remember the club is wanting to go solo with no affiliation with Coburg any more, I'm sure the club will hold onto a couple of questionable senior players just so we don't have a bunch of 18 year olds copping a flogging every week in the VFL.

I could definitely live with cutting the list by 8 per year, only if it starts in 2012 and not this year, 2011 draft isn't the year to be cutting so deep when the quality wont be so great, 2012 and beyond 8-10 cut off the list I would have no worries.

 

[rammbo]

Everyone Tiger supporter who is looking at our list objectively would agree, what people should be debating is how many players will we de-list every year for the next 3-4 years.

If we are looking at getting rid of about 23-25 players over the next 3-4 years that would mean at a minimum 6 players de-listed every year, which if you think about it is pretty much the average for all teams these days. Our problem is, is that we need to get rid of duds that are firmly sitting in our best 22, where other clubs would have the luxury of de-listing a couple of fringe players and a few rookies.

One thing I would suggest and I would like to think you would agree with me on is that we cant get rid of all our mature bodied players all in the one draft, what we need to do is slowly weed out the players in our 22 while getting rid f the junk on our rookie list and other fringe players such as Nason, Webberley, Taylor etc.

This year I would look at getting rid of.

Taylor (Waste of time wont be coming back)
Nason (To small and doesn't have a very good skill set)
Hislop (Really needs to show something in the last 5 or so weeks otherwise gone)
Tuck (I would prefer to hold onto as depth but the guy needs the chance at another AFL career at a different club)
Hicks (Is barely doing enough at VFL reserves level)
Thursfield (Simply not good enough)

That's 6 players, and in a compromised draft is deep enough, possibly in 2012 and onwards the club can look at cutting the list deeper per year.

In 2012 if the following players don't show signs of genuine improvement then they must go.

Westhoff
Contin (I really hope this kid gets a shot this year)
Webberley
McGuane (Only if all 3 of Grimes, Astbury and Rance can form a good defensive unit together)
Post (I thought he was good on the weekend and never stopped trying, needs a good run at it but if he doesn't show the same graph of improvement Rance has showed then he must go)
Morton (De-listed/Traded either way he needs to get out on the park and cement his spot in the team)

You can then throw in 2013 if certain players don't dramatically improve.

Farmer
Gourdis
Miller
White
Graham (Only if we find a better option)
O'Reilly (2011 is a ride off for him with injury, showed enough signs in his limited game time that he deserves to be persisted with)

And then anything after that the club starts getting rid of Rookies/Fringe players and upgrades on certain 22 players such as Jackson and Edwards.

The list needs a good turn over, my belief is that it will take 2 possibly 3 drafts before we have a best 22 worthy of playing finals, it will take another 1-2 drafts to build the quality depth needed to cover for injuries.

Just wondering what you think of browne because i reckon hes our worst player on our list.

 

[MightyTiger]

Just wondering what you think of browne because i reckon hes our worst player on our list.

From what I've seen so far I would have to say things aren't looking that great for him, however as we all know Rucks take much longer then many other to hit there straps and I think it would be stupid to get rid of him at such a young age, give him another 3-4 years even if he spends some time on the rookie list until he matures and becomes lean enough to be a bit more nimble around the grounds.

 

[_RT_]

Been thinking about this since this thread popped up and these are my delistings for the end of the season:

Senior List:
Thursfield
Taylor
Tuck
Webberley
Nason
Moore(whispers starting to float around that his injury might end his career)/McGuane one of them will go as we look to give the kids more opportunity, the other will be kept as depth/backup.

Rookie List:
Hicks
Miller
Hislop
Contin


That would give us 9-10 picks in a compromised draft, which is 1 less than we went with last year.

Morton I reckon could be shopped around especially if we're looking at using say our second round pick and a player to try and land a quality player in a trade i.e Trengove or a ruckman.

 

[santa claws]

Been thinking about this since this thread popped up and these are my delistings for the end of the season:

Senior List:
Thursfield
Taylor
Tuck
Webberley
Nason
Moore(whispers starting to float around that his injury might end his career)/McGuane one of them will go as we look to give the kids more opportunity, the other will be kept as depth/backup.

Rookie List:
Hicks
Miller
Hislop
Contin


That would give us 9-10 picks in a compromised draft, which is 1 less than we went with last year.

Morton I reckon could be shopped around especially if we're looking at using say our second round pick and a player to try and land a quality player in a trade i.e Trengove or a ruckman.

just looking at that list just to maintain some sort of balance we will have to draft 2 tall defenders if thuusfield and one of mcguane/moore does go.sort of adds credence to the trengove rumors.
we will need to draft probably 2 tall forwards with taylor and miller going.

with tuck and contin going you can maybe add hislop into the category of big bodied inside mids we will need to target a couple of big bodied mids, its a very deficient area imo any way. please let them be well rounded.

imo if hicks goes we need to target a sml/med forward of reasonable quality as the ones we have other than hicks lack polish i would add white to hicks in fact im more inclined to persevere with hicks .

i dont think the loss of nason or webberley greatly affects list needs one player i would add to these two is edwards if i could get a late second rounder for him, and i know thats wishful thinking id jump at it.

morton i just dont know about anymore. i think he is a needed type that we have few of. i think though a lack of defensive pressure and lets say an unwillingness to go when its his turn is the real reason why hes on the outer atm.
anyway enough of my rambling.

 

[Parquet Court]

i think the disturbing thing is that if we did delist all of those blokes no one would notice what so ever,maybe tuck and more a little but moore has played less these days so you could almost say we wouldnt realise if he had gone.

it just goes to show how shit the list is and how far we are off. we must delist these guys this season and replace with the draft, people may say the player we get in there place could be worse than them, i say that would be tough to as bad as those players at AFL level

 

[santa claws]

From what I've seen so far I would have to say things aren't looking that great for him, however as we all know Rucks take much longer then many other to hit there straps and I think it would be stupid to get rid of him at such a young age, give him another 3-4 years even if he spends some time on the rookie list until he matures and becomes lean enough to be a bit more nimble around the grounds.

im not saying get rid of him and i do understand talls take longer but imo just about all players have at least one outstanding and redeeming attribute that offsets deficiencies and would suggest they have some sort of chance to make it. i dont see that with either browne or graham. graham ive already written off, and theres no way id persevere with browne for another 3 or 4 yrs if he were at the same or similar level hes at now with the same glaring deficiencies.

theres hope and theres making a judgement based on what attrributes they bring to the table and how likely they are to turn deficiencies around.
while i dont think browne will make it im prepared to give him a little time.

 

[Parquet Court]

hopefully derrickx comes on next season, he is a mature aged pick so next season will be defining for him. for mine id like to see us take more mature aged players in the draft. we are at a point were we have a good mixture of players from 19-23 with martin, vickery, cotchin, riewoldt falling in that age bracket.

we need some more players filling that void between that group and chris newman at 30 odd. if the draft is supposedly so weak this year then i do hope we are scouring the state leagues

 

[HurlsMeister18]

Morton I reckon could be shopped around especially if we're looking at using say our second round pick and a player to try and land a quality player in a trade i.e Trengove or a ruckman.

Maybe Morton and your first rounder, or just your first rounder may get the job done for Trengove but your dreaming if you think Morton and a second rounder will land a quality player.

 

[NQTIGER]

B: Houli 26, Rance 25, _________
HB: Batchelor 23, Astbury 24, Conca 23
C: Deledio 27, Martin 23, Grigg 26
HF: __________, _________, White 27
F: Vickery 24, Reiwoldt 26, Nahas 27
R: __________, Cotchin 24, _________


Its been a good two weeks to be sitting in the naughty corner it has given me time to think, and this is the team going forward, which should startplaying finals 2015/2016.

Earlier this year we did a thread onwhen we expected to play finals and the majority said 2012/13 some of us said we wwere further away, last saturday shows how far away we are.

There are also a lot pro development vs Winning , well last saturday was development, because it certainly wasnt about winning.


Im not sure what type of development it was, but thats exactly what it was.

We are probably 12 players away from finals and that my friends is three to four drafts.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

B: Houli 26, Rance 25, _________
HB: Batchelor 23, Astbury 24, Conca 23
C: Deledio 27, Martin 23, Grigg 26
HF: __________, _________, White 27
F: Vickery 24, Reiwoldt 26, Nahas 27
R: __________, Cotchin 24, _________


Its been a good two weeks to be sitting in the naughty corner it has given me time to think, and this is the team going forward, which should startplaying finals 2015/2016.

Earlier this year we did a thread onwhen we expected to play finals and the majority said 2012/13 some of us said we wwere further away, last saturday shows how far away we are.

There are also a lot pro development vs Winning , well last saturday was development, because it certainly wasnt about winning.


Im not sure what type of development it was, but thats exactly what it was.

We are probably 12 players away from finals and that my friends is three to four drafts.

On the money...which means for the tiger supporter more 'development' pain...

 

[TigerTime88]

B: Houli 26, Rance 25, Grimes
HB: Batchelor 23, Trengove, Newman
C: Deledio 27, Martin 23, Conca
HF :King, Griffiths, _______
F: ______ , Reiwoldt 26, Nahas 27
R: Vickery, Cotchin 24, Foley

Astbury,________,________,________

Backs

Houli - Think he is a good enough HBF in a finals side. He has been one of our better players this year and has really improved throughout the year.

Rance - Has been excellent and will be a 10 yr FB imo.

Grimes - Rate him. Moore is the backup plan.

Batchelor - Very impressive first year. Reminds me alot of Corey Enright from the cats. Can confidently see him in our team in 5 years.

Trengrove - Assuming we trade for him our CHB could be set.

Newman - Will be the c of the backline.

Midfield

Deledio, Martin, Conca, Cotchin, Foley is a very good first rotation. We need to free up some spots on the list now to add to these guys. Need three more players to be able to enter the midfield rotation. I am hoping Morton comes back and is one because he looked very good as a mid in the 1's last year.

Vickery - I am confident he will turn out to be a very good ruckman who rests forward. His athleticism will be one way he gets on top of other rucks.

If we are able to secure Trengove for our first round pick and Vickery shows that he is going to be our ruck it means that our two top 20 picks in the 2012 draft go towards mids and completing our midfield. One would have to be a HFF/mid and a pure midfielder.

Forwards

I think that Nahas and King are going to be kicking 4-5 goals when we are a top 4 side. Maybe I am overconfident but I really do believe both of these guys have taken massive strides.

Riewoldt is a clear gun.

I am confident Griffiths has all the tools it is just a matter of getting his body right.

We need to find someone who can play the Leigh Brown role as 3rd tall/ruck. Griffiths can go into the ruck but I would prefer to see him staying at CHF. Post imo could fill this role but they really need to settle him in this role now and get him to learn it. He can take a grab...needs to work on his goal kicking and I think his tapwork is quite good.

The other spot is for a mid/HFF. Morton is the perfect fit but who knows where he is at.

Bench comes down to using 2 picks on drafting gun mids. Hopefully someone else can pop up from somewhere...like a Dan Connors.

I think where we lack is depth. We need to only rely on Jackson and Grigg as depth players. One of the depth spots is for a tagger and a good one at that. Somoen that can make Judds day difficult.

Therefore I think the following should be delisted (however I think it is better to do it next year in a stronger draft):

Thursfield
Browne
McGuane
Graham
Farmer
Hislop
Taylor
Miller
Nason
White
Hicks
Contin (unless he does something. Maybe 1 more year).
Whestoff