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Climate Change Arguing

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Cap said:
You are lucky to live in a country where people with your shortcomings can still live in comfort.

If only we could swap you out with those already suffering, it would be a win win for all.
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He's right, just not for the reasons he thinks

28 years of these things and the only thing that works is a global catastrophe annual-co2-emissions-per-country.png
 

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barreness said:
He's right, just not for the reasons he thinks

28 years of these things and the only thing that works is a global catastropheView attachment 1872776
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Notice how those emissions have flattened significantly in the past 10 years? Back in 2005 we expected global carbon dioxide emissions to be around 50 Gt by now.

Evs and renewable are about to take off in terms of contributions to emissions reductions. the costs have already fallen to where they need to be but it takes time to build both the infrastructure and new capacity. It doesnt happen instantaneously. These techs share in total generation and total vehicles will rise dramatically over the next 10-15 years which will make global emissions fall.

This, however, wont even be remotely sufficient to bring global emissions down to zero though. For that you need dramatic cost declines in hydrogen, batteries and carbon capture and the development of proper regulation and enforcement of carbon sinks (In their current form carbon sinks are largely a scam).

getting global emissions to net zero before 2060 looks extremely difficult. But global emissions peaking and soon falling is almost inevitable within the next 10 years.
 
barreness said:
Countries have been making unbinding pledges to decrease emissions at COP for 28 years so far, CO2 emmisions has been been rising for all of those 28 years bar GFC and COVID, it's a sham
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Some developed economies have been making pledges for emissions to fall for the past couple of decades. Developing economies havent. It takes both groups to bring global emissions to fall. Chinas previous pledges have only been emission intensity reductions, not actual emission reductions. And by my estimates these emission intensity pledges are largely spurious and required no actual abatement policies to achieve them. Actual emission reduction pledges by China is only a very recent thing (made only a couple of years ago) and at the moment they are only long term goals for 2060. China and most developing economies have not made short term emission reduction pledges.

For global emissions to fall both developed and developing economies need to reduce emissions. Developed economies definately should lead the way here given their greater financial capacity to abate. But emissions need to fall in most regions to impact global emissions.

in the past year we have seen falls in most developed economies emissions.
 
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Seeds said:
Some developed economies have been making pledges for emissions to fall for the past couple of decades. Developing economies havent. It takes both groups to bring global emissions to fall. Chinas previous pledges have only been emission intensity reductions, not actual emission reductions. And by my estimates these emission intensity pledges are largely spurious and required no actual abatement policies to achieve them. Actual emission reduction pledges by China is only a very recent thing (made only a couple of years ago) and at the moment they are only long term goals for 2060. China and most developing economies have not made short term emission reduction pledges.

For global emissions to fall both developed and developing economies need to reduce emissions. Developed economies definately should lead the way here given their greater financial capacity to abate. But emissions need to fall in most regions to impact global emissions.

in the past year we have seen falls in most developed economies emissions.
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Yep. In a globalised capitalist world manufacturing and resource extraction/refining will go to the cheapest point. It doesn't matter where the emissions happen, only that they do
Seeds said:
Notice how those emissions have flattened significantly in the past 10 years? Back in 2005 we expected global carbon dioxide emissions to be around 50 Gt by now.
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good news I guess, We still die but it could've been quicker
Seeds said:
Evs and renewable are about to take off in terms of contributions to emissions reductions
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See this is my issue, you call those reductions, they still emit in the building process. Renewables have largely just added to the energy mix rather than displaced fossil fuels, EV's just mean more cars
Seeds said:
. the costs have already fallen to where they need to be but it takes time to build both the infrastructure and new capacity. It doesnt happen instantaneously. These techs share in total generation and total vehicles will rise dramatically over the next 10-15 years which will make global emissions fall.
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Yes, yes. It's great that renewables can compete on price now, it's a damn shame that that's what it takes to implement them.
Infinite growth model cannot be sustained
Seeds said:
This, however, wont even be remotely sufficient to bring global emissions down to zero though. For that you need dramatic cost declines in hydrogen, batteries and carbon capture and the development of proper regulation and enforcement of carbon sinks (In their current form carbon sinks are largely a scam).
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Technohopium. Hydrogen acts as an energy store and its pretty terrible at that, very inefficient to produce and store. Batteries may well be at there physical limits. Carbon capture is untenable at scale, and the credits are a scam.
Seeds said:
getting global emissions to net zero before 2060 looks extremely difficult.
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so we're actually cooked
Seeds said:
But global emissions peaking and soon falling is almost inevitable within the next 10 years.
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Agreed, but think this has more to do with peak oil and mass casualty events
 
barreness said:
Oh sorry, my charitable reading of loosen up, thought he was referring to the COP itself not climate change
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I was referring to COP so you were right! Climate Change is very real. It's been happening naturally for millions of years.
But once again, we battlers have to sit here and listen to all these ridiculous pledges being made from a bunch of political elites with their own personal agenda's who make no effort whatsoever to make changes in their own lives. 700+ private jets or whatever it was. Get stuffed!
 
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Better Loosen Up said:
I was referring to COP so you were right! Climate Change is very real. It's been happening naturally for millions of years.
But once again, we battlers have to sit here and listen to all these ridiculous pledges being made from a bunch of political elites with their own personal agenda's who make no effort whatsoever to make changes in their own lives. 700+ private jets or whatever it was. Get stuffed!
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So increasing CO2 doesn't heat the planet?
 

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Better Loosen Up said:
I was referring to COP so you were right! Climate Change is very real. It's been happening naturally for millions of years.
But once again, we battlers have to sit here and listen to all these ridiculous pledges being made from a bunch of political elites with their own personal agenda's who make no effort whatsoever to make changes in their own lives. 700+ private jets or whatever it was. Get stuffed!
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I mean I agree with all of this, but I also think we're rapidly approaching a biosphere evisceration and civilisation collapse.
Horseshoe theory showing some promise once again
 
Better Loosen Up said:
I was referring to COP so you were right! Climate Change is very real. It's been happening naturally for millions of years.
But once again, we battlers have to sit here and listen to all these ridiculous pledges being made from a bunch of political elites with their own personal agenda's who make no effort whatsoever to make changes in their own lives. 700+ private jets or whatever it was. Get stuffed!
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Yes it has.

But that isn't the problem is it.

Don't get me wrong, it's great you've got this far... just a little bit further.
 
Better Loosen Up said:
I don't need to be schooled by you mate.
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I'm well aware of the studies that show no matter what you are told, you won't believe it anyway.

So I'm not here to school you, I'm hopeful you'll get there on your own.
 
barreness said:
Yep. In a globalised capitalist world manufacturing and resource extraction/refining will go to the cheapest point. It doesn't matter where the emissions happen, only that they do

good news I guess, We still die but it could've been quicker

See this is my issue, you call those reductions, they still emit in the building process. Renewables have largely just added to the energy mix rather than displaced fossil fuels, EV's just mean more cars

Yes, yes. It's great that renewables can compete on price now, it's a damn shame that that's what it takes to implement them.
Infinite growth model cannot be sustained

Technohopium. Hydrogen acts as an energy store and its pretty terrible at that, very inefficient to produce and store. Batteries may well be at there physical limits. Carbon capture is untenable at scale, and the credits are a scam.

so we're actually cooked

Agreed, but think this has more to do with peak oil and mass casualty events
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The current emissions from the building process of EvS and solar power plants are miniscule compared to the emissions from fossil fuel generation and petrol consumed by ICE's. We are talking a very tiny fraction. And on top, once power becomes green the relatively minuscule emissions from the building process also become zero.

so moving to renewables and EVs does lead to zero emissions from transport and power. You are mistaken if you believe that switching from fossil fuels to solar and EVs doesnt lead to a dramatic falls in emissions.
 

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Cap said:
I'm well aware of the studies that show no matter what you are told, you won't believe it anyway.

So I'm not here to school you, I'm hopeful you'll get there on your own.
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There is no chance we will ever stand on the sane side on this because i see through the political bs
 
Better Loosen Up said:
There is no chance we will ever stand on the sane side on this because i see through the political bs
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I assume you mean same.(because sane also kinda makes sense)

It's pretty easy to see through the political BS, the next part is just believing the vast majority of people who are experts in their field.

Then I dare say, we'd be in the same side.
 
Cap said:
I assume you mean same.(because sane also kinda makes sense)

It's pretty easy to see through the political BS, the next part is just believing the vast majority of people who are experts in their field.

Then I dare say, we'd be in the same side.
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:$
 

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