Science/Environment Climate Scientists Email Theft - Part I

[HarryTiger]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

No, it doesn't matter because he doesn't stand to gain from them.

If he did stand to gain from those affiliations would that be a worrying conflict of interest? Yes or no would be nice

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

I don't deal in hypotheticals, sorry, if you have a point then just make it.

 

[HarryTiger]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

I don't deal in hypotheticals, sorry, if you have a point then just make it.

Ah I see what you're thinking. No I do not know that he does stand to gain at all. But he might, and it might be discovered, and if that does happen I would like to quote you and say "gotcha!!". You're right about that bit, but I'm not there yet.

It's not really a hypothetical as much as it is just a possibility. Don't see why you couldn't answer.

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

I don't know enough about the role of Chairman of the IPCC and the influence he actually has on what goes into an AR, or the extent of his business interests, to adequetely answer the question. Considering the IPCC is a body made up of thousands of people who don't share his interests then my instinct would be that, no, it's not a huge problem. From what I understand, people can't make up their mind whether him being Chair of various oil and public utility companies makes him a hyopocrite, or his involvement with TERI (a not for profit organisation) means that his is standing to profit from advocating policies that would benefit renewable enrgy providers. And I know enough about the denier PR industry to know a shameless beat-up when I see one.

 

[medusala]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

It's been done, it's a beat up, Pachauri's business interests all apply to a not for profit foundation, into which all the profits go, he hasn't personally benefited from them whatsoever. And as Joe Romm points out, there is a real irony to this story (follow the links for Pachauri's statements on the matter etc):

Come off it BP. He has benefitted personally.

Not only that but how do you know what payments are made out of those tax evading foundations that the cash goes to?

There is no way you can claim its a beat up.

The guy has a massive conflict of interest.

He is the Heartland of the IPCC.

 

[medusala]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

No, it doesn't matter because he doesn't stand to gain from them.

So you can categorically state he receives no income from the below nor will benefit in the future?

http://investing.businessweek.com/r...38823&previousTitle=General Catalyst Partners

Dr. Rajendra Kumar Pachauri is a Strategic Advisor at Pegasus Capital Advisors, L.P. He has been a Director-General of The Energy Research Institute (TERI) since April 2001. Dr. Pachauri has been Head of Tata Energy Research Institute, New Delhi (now known as The Energy and Resources Institute) since April 2001.He has been the President of the Asian Energy Institute since 1992. Dr. Pachauri has been the President of the International Association for Energy Economics ... since 1988. He has been Chairman and Member of the Advisory Group at Asian Development Bank since May 2009. Dr. Pachauri has been an Independent Director of Oil and Natural Gas Corp. Ltd., since June 26, 2006. He serves as Vice-Chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Dr. Pachauri serves as Director of GloriOil Limited. He serves as Director of the Institute for Global Environmental Strategies, Japan. Dr. Pachauri serves as a Member of External Advisory Board of Chicago Climate Exchange, Inc. He serves as Member of the Advisory Board on Energy. Dr. Pachauri serves as a Member of the International Advisory Board of Toyota Motors. He serves as a Member of Climate Change Advisory Board of Deutsche Bank AG. Dr. Pachauri served as Chairman of the International Association for Energy Economics from 1989 to 1990. He served as an Independent Director of NTPC Ltd. (National Thermal Power Corp.), from January 30, 2006 to January 2009. Dr. Pachauri served as a Director of the Indian Oil Corporation Limited until August 28, 2003. He served as non-official Part-time Director of NTPC Ltd., from August 2002 to August 2005. Dr. Pachauri served as a Director of Gail India Ltd. from August 18, 2003 to October 26, 2004. He served as Director of Tata Energy Research Institute., since 1981. Dr. Pachauri serves as Member of National Environmental Council, Government of India under the Chairmanship of the Prime Minister of India. He serves as a Member of the International Solar Energy Society, World Resources Institute, World Energy Council.

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

So you can categorically state he receives no income from the below nor will benefit in the future?

Can you categorically state that he does or he will? Of course you can'. You are engaged in a baseless character assassination in an attempt to discredit the processes at the IPCC.

 

[medusala]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Can you categorically state that he does or he will? Of course you can'. You are engaged in a baseless character assassination in an attempt to discredit the processes at the IPCC.

It is not baseless. His involvement in those companies is documented fact.

Someone receiving second hand funding from an oil company via a free market thing tank => evil

Someone who is a director of an oil company => fine, no conflict at all

Such a profound attachment to logic you have.

 

[Hawkamania!]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

The first book looking at Climategate is now published.

https://www.createspace.com/3423467

The Crutape Letters

By Steven Mosher, Thomas W. Fuller

The Climategate scandal covered from beginning to end--from 'Hide the Decline' to the current day. Written by two authors who were on the scene--Steven Mosher and Tom Fuller--Climategate takes you behind that scene and shows what happened and why.

For those who have heard that the emails were taken out of context--we provide that context and show it is worse when context is provided.

For those who have heard that this is a tempest in a teacup--we show why it will swamp the conventional wisdom on climate change.

And for those who have heard that this scandal is just 'boys being boys'--well, boy. It's as seamy as what happened on Wall Street.


Publication Date:Jan 14 2010
ISBN/EAN13:1450512437 / 9781450512435
Categories:Science / Environmental Science

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

LOL, Tom Fuller is such an eejit, but hey, why not cash in on the gullibility of the wingnuts, I know I would if I were them! These people are much more interested in selling books/newspapers than they are in genuinely representing the science

 

[Hawkamania!]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

UK parliament to investigate climategate.
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/1/22/uk-parliament-to-investigate-climategate.html

And while we're at it, Bishop Hill's own AW Montford has written a book on the infamous hockey stick.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...mp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=1906768358

Part scientific history and part detective story, The Hockey Stick Illusion tells the extraordinary tale of the iconic global warming graph (created by the US climatologist Michael Mann), the global panic about climate change that it has helped to feed, and the tireless efforts of a lone amateur researcher, Steve McIntyre, that have comprehensively discredited it. From the earliest attempts to reproduce the Hockey Stick graph, to the explosive publication of McIntyre's work and the launch of a congressional inquiry, The Hockey Stick Illusion is a remarkable tale of scientific misconduct and amateur sleuthing. It explains the complex science of this most controversial of scientific findings in layperson's language and lays bare the remarkable extent to which climatologists have been willing to break their own rules in order to defend climate science's most famous finding. Already acclaimed by experts in the field, The Hockey Stick Illusion is an indispensable guide for anyone wanting to assess the credibility of global warming science.

Steve McIntyre deserves our gratitude in his tireless efforts in exposing these flim-flam men and their unscrupulous methods.

 

[Hawkamania!]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

It looks as if the Climategate gang may avoid FOI prosecutions in the UK (click on link for full article).

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/1/25/no-climategate-foi-prosecutions.html

First off, I was told that while there appeared to be a problem, I needed to be clear that there would be no prosecutions under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act, regardless of the final outcome of the investigation. Although withholding or destroying information is a criminal offence under the terms of the Act, apparently no prosecutions can be brought for offences committed more than six months prior. As anyone who has made a UK FoI request knows, it can take six months to exhaust the internal review process before the ICO even becomes involved. The ICO can then take another six months before starting his investigation.

 

[GeorgeGrljusich]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

It looks as if the Climategate gang may avoid FOI prosecutions in the UK (click on link for full article).

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/1/25/no-climategate-foi-prosecutions.html

The very last sentence of your BLOG link..

Conspiracy theory? Perhaps, but you have to admit, it's a possibility.

Still awaiting an actual independent thought from this poster.
Not holding my breath though.

 

[Hawkamania!]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

George, have you got anything of substance to add? Anything at all?

Just curious, are you a fan of dick cheney, cass sunstein or both? I ask this based on your response to the Bishop Hill article.

The very last sentence of your BLOG link..

Conspiracy theory? Perhaps, but you have to admit, it's a possibility.

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Still awaiting an actual independent thought from this poster.
Not holding my breath though.

No, you will probably turn blue and die. He's not the sharpest tool in the deniers shed, believe you me.

 

[GeorgeGrljusich]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

George, have you got anything of substance to add? Anything at all?

Just curious, are you a fan of dick cheney, cass sunstein or both? I ask this based on your response to the Bishop Hill article.

It is nie on impossible to have anything substantial to say when the post is a self confessed conspiracy theory.
There is a thread on 9/11 here somewhere. May I respectfully suggest that it may be more your thing.
Cutting and pasting conspirial denier blogs and then essentially adding nothing more than "discuss" asyour comment is really so yesterday.

No, you will probably turn blue and die. He's not the sharpest tool in the deniers shed, believe you me.

QFT.

 

[morgoth]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Science is not settled. Who says? The British cheif scientific officer. The arsecovering is underway.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...climate-sceptics/story-e6frg6xf-1225823874671

Professor Beddington said that climate scientists should be less hostile to sceptics who questioned man-made global warming. He condemned scientists who refused to publish the data underpinning their reports.

He said that public confidence in climate science would be improved if there were more openness about its uncertainties, even if that meant admitting that sceptics had been right on some hotly disputed issues.

"I don't think it's healthy to dismiss proper scepticism. Science grows and improves in the light of criticism. There is a fundamental uncertainty about climate change prediction that can't be changed," he said.

 

[Dippers Donuts]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Science is not settled. Who says? The British cheif scientific officer. The arsecovering is underway.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...climate-sceptics/story-e6frg6xf-1225823874671

I like this quote from the same guy from the same article;

"Professor Beddington said that uncertainty about some aspects of climate science should not be used as an excuse for inaction: "Some people ask why we should act when scientists say they are only 90 per cent certain about the problem. But would you get on a plane that had a 10 per cent chance of crashing?"

 

[Play by Numbers]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Science deals in probabilities not absolute truths.

This is because it is based on empirical evidence, where sample sizes may be vast and evidence may be so compelling over such a long period as to be considered a fact or scientific truth, it is still not an absolute one.

Acknowledging this and what we do not know, or could understand better, is key to healthy scientific inquiry and an honest answer. This does not discredit what is understood based on current findings.

Where the gulf lies is between the public's perception of science and scientific method itself.

Partly this is due to lack of education leading to poor understanding, but a large part is some sections of the medias skewed portrayal. One only has to look at the championing of new cures or any bogus claim that makes for a good headline as reality, or the flipside misrepresenting certainty in science to suit a political/financial agenda, to notice this.

Playing childish semantic games benefits no one, except for those with dishonest intentions.

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Science is not settled. Who says? The British cheif scientific officer. The arsecovering is underway.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...climate-sceptics/story-e6frg6xf-1225823874671

Geeze you're an obstinate prick Morgs, I've posted the following for your benefit before, maybe you could try actually reading it

More broadly, many aspects of climate science can be looked at in a similar light — especially with respect to our efforts to understand the relative importance of past climate forcing effects, and our projections of future change. We cannot ever know what will happen in the future, for a whole variety of reasons (imperfect knowledge, limitations on our models and our ability to parameterise them, uncertainty about human decisions); likewise, we cannot ever be sure just how important greenhouse gases, ice albedo, dust, volcanoes and the sun were in perturbing past climates, nor how abruptly and markedly they did this. Yet we can still assess, based on multiple lines of evidence, what is more or less likely, and make decisions on energy pathways and other globally significant human activities on this basis, under a risk management framework. In this context, Nature has just produced a great news feature called “The real holes in climate science” (available free, here). To quote:

Like any other field, research on climate change has some fundamental gaps, although not the ones typically claimed by sceptics. Quirin Schiermeier takes a hard look at some of the biggest problem areas.
​

The four areas of greatest uncertainty they discuss are regional climate predictions and downscaling (an area of particular interest in my research on ecological impacts that are relevant at the population and individual scale), precipitation (where will it get wetter, drier, snowier or more barren and how quickly will these shifts occur?), aerosols (how much warming sulphates and dust suppressing, and what is the heating effect of black carbon?) and palaeoclimatic reconstruction (the ‘tree ring controversy’ and related uncertainties). I would also add feedbacks, abrupt change and slow/fast climate sensitivity to that list…
Also, be sure to read the associated editorial, Climate of suspicion:

With climate-change sceptics waiting to pounce on any scientific uncertainties, researchers need a sophisticated strategy for communication.
​

This provides sound advice for all scientists wishing to engage on the topic of climate change in the public arena.

Do yourself a favour and actually read th two Nature articles referenced, if you want to know about the real debate surrounding uncertainty going on in actual scientific circles (and not on the pages of Climate Depot)

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Seems “The real holes in climate science” is no longer available for free and requires subs, odd cos I read it just yesterday. Anyway, Prf. Barry Brooks gives a run down on the areas covered by the article.

 

[morgoth]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Geeze you're an obstinate prick Morgs, I've posted the following for your benefit before, maybe you could try actually reading it




Do yourself a favour and actually read th two Nature articles referenced, if you want to know about the real debate surrounding uncertainty going on in actual scientific circles (and not on the pages of Climate Depot)

The science is settled. It is clearly not. Why would I read a article from Nature? That is the journal that Jones, Mann and co admitted they had virtual control of in their e-mails.

You simply don't get it, your boys were caught lying, anything they are associated it with is tainted. Their models are fake, their data is maniplulated and they hid the decline. Its not being obsinate it is just looking at the facts. Facts you refuse to acknowledge despite it being litteraly straight from the horses mouth.

What will you do when your boys get jail? Mann is in serious trouble, they take fraud seriously in the US.

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Yeah, there you go! Nature is one of THE most respected journals going, the fact that you think it is suspect says more than I ever could about your tinfoil hat mentality. Whatever dude. You clearly have no idea what you are actually ranting about

It's been three months since "cliamtegate" broke, if there was any evidence whatsoever of fraud it would have ben exposed by now, but there wasn't, it is just baseless harrassment and defamation of the most respected scientists in their fields.

 

[John]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

You simply don't get it, your boys were caught lying, anything they are associated it with is tainted.

Why do you have an issue with "lying"? You have openly admitted that the Liberal party, the party you defend to the hilt around here, lied about an ETS to get elected.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16454397&postcount=33

It's pretty simple that was then, this is now. I doubt Howard would ever have gone through with an ETS, his policy was just designed to get elected, first chance he had to dump it, he would have.

Compared to others sceptics around here who debate fairly sensibly the reality it that you do a poor job. As someone who is very very unsure about this you IMO are the most unconvincing person posting about this subject around here.

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Leading climate scientists e-mails hacked. If true very disturbing

Compared to others sceptics around here who debate fairly sensibly the reality it that you do a poor job. As someone who is very very unsure about this you IMO are the most unconvincing person posting about this subject around here.

Amen to that! It's near impossible to argue with someone who doesn't have the first goddamn clue what they are actually arguing about, at least the rest of them have some effing idea.