Research Club Nicknames and Mascots

[royals1922]

I am enjoying this origin story. I can add my brief article on the 1933 game - But I don't discuss this issue.

Plug to self - 1933 - Round 5 St Kilda v North Melbourne - 15 men defeat 18

I'll use some modern analogies.

Remember the tradition in WCE /Ess games of waving your jacket. That was started in a game ( don't remember when) and just continued on.

Or remember the marshmallow references in NM / Essendon games that still get a mention.

A tradition has to have a starting point...

 

[Mero]

I am enjoying this origin story. I can add my brief article on the 1933 game - But I don't discuss this issue.

Plug to self - 1933 - Round 5 St Kilda v North Melbourne - 15 men defeat 18

For years StKilda included in their history that this game was the one that made the club put the logo on the jumper.
Something about always wearing the club logo over their heart from then on.

It was only in the early 2000s that club historian Russell Holmesby found a private photograph of players in the game and realised they were all wearing jumpers with the logo on them during that game. (The newspapers had their photographers go to other games). Turns out they just decided to put the club logo on the new jumpers they got made.
(And I had to change the information on a certain football jumper based website.)

 

[Jim Dixon]

Port Adelaide were the 'magentas' in the 19th century until they brought in the famous black and white 'prison bars' uniform in 1902 and became the "magpies". I have no idea why this change was brought in though. Press of the period merely noted the change, but didn't say why.

 

[Jim Dixon]

I'll use some modern analogies.

Remember the tradition in WCE /Ess games of waving your jacket. That was started in a game ( don't remember when) and just continued on.

Or remember the marshmallow references in NM / Essendon games that still get a mention.

A tradition has to have a starting point...

The great jacket wave was round 16, 1993.

 

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

As pointed out in another thread - Melbourne were originally known as the "White Invincibles" before they became the redlegs.

It was the "Invincible Whites"

 

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

The Age 17-Apr-1954 p9 Jack O'Halloran Bryan Martyn Laurie Icke North Melbourne

Gold! Bit hard to imagine the crowd getting fired up as it was slowly wheeled around the boundary at Arden Street

 

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

Geelong Pivotonians (and Seagulls)...

"Around the 1860′s Geelong developed the nickname “Pivot City”, a name that was in reference to Geelong being the central hub for shipping and rail to Melbourne, Ballarat and the Western District. Some local business’s still retain the Pivot name to this day but one local football club did change its name from the Pivotonians to the Cats in 1923 after adopting the Pivotonians name in the late 1870s from the previous Seagulls moniker."

http://www.intown.com.au/locals/geelong/historical/default.htm

 

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

Fitzroy Gorillas...

1937 article (quoted earlier by royals1922) also mentions that Fitzroy "felt that it needed a more fearsome name, and has now chosen 'Gorillas'".
That, and the 1938 cartoon with the knife throwing Mexican(!) posted by Michael Riley gives us a timeframe.

The following website says they remained the Gorillas until 1956:

http://www.fitzroyfc.com.au/gorillas.html

However, the same site manages to contradict itself in the headline (1938) and the first paragraph (1939) so I'd want to research that 1956 date further.

-----------------

Why the change to Lions? When you're having an ordinary run the Gorillas name wouldn't be too hard to take potshots at...

"Fitzroy now has the qualifications to change its name from the lumbering gorillas to the fleet-footed gazelles after its dazzling win over Richmond" (Argus 16-5-1955, p.21)

 

[Jim Dixon]

Fitzroy Gorillas...

1937 article (quoted earlier by royals1922) also mentions that Fitzroy "felt that it needed a more fearsome name, and has now chosen 'Gorillas'".
That, and the 1938 cartoon with the knife throwing Mexican(!) posted by Michael Riley gives us a timeframe.

The following website says they remained the Gorillas until 1956:

http://www.fitzroyfc.com.au/gorillas.html

However, the same site manages to contradict itself in the headline (1938) and the first paragraph (1939) so I'd want to research that 1956 date further.

-----------------

Why the change to Lions? When you're having an ordinary run the Gorillas name wouldn't be too hard to take potshots at...

"Fitzroy now has the qualifications to change its name from the lumbering gorillas to the fleet-footed gazelles after its dazzling win over Richmond" (Argus 16-5-1955, p.21)

Next time the AFL spring a 'heritage' round malarky on us, the Brisbane Lions should market themselves as the 'Gorillas' to mark the occasion.

 

[Wallaby]

What the Dockers might have been

These were all registered by the AFL with IP Australia before going with Fremantle Dockers.

Carn the Hammer. ???

Still don't understand why they didn't go with the Fremantle Doctors. My guess is they wanted to, and at the last minute someone got cold feet and made a slight modification.

 

[Roylion]

The following website says they remained the Gorillas until 1956:

http://www.fitzroyfc.com.au/gorillas.html

However, the same site manages to contradict itself in the headline (1938) and the first paragraph (1939) so I'd want to research that 1956 date further.

The official club history of Fitzroy, "The First Hundred Seasons" says quite clearly on page 83, that the Fitzroy Football Club officially adopted the Gorilla moniker in 1939. It was quickly discarded however after the "Gorilla" became an object of ridicule. The Club then officially called itself the "Maroons" until the 1957 season, when the Lion moniker and mascot was adopted. However until that time it remained widely known (unofficially) as the Gorillas,

The same official history on page 123 states that the Fitzroy became the Lions for the 1957 season. However the decision to become the Lions for the 1957 season was made in 1956. Officially in 1956, Fitzroy were the "Maroons" and called themselves such.

 

[royals1922]

The official club history of Fitzroy, "The First Hundred Seasons" says quite clearly on page 83, that the Fitzroy Football Club officially adopted the Gorilla moniker in 1939. It was quickly discarded however after the "Gorilla" became an object of ridicule. The Club then officially called itself the "Maroons" until the 1957 season, when the Lion moniker and mascot was adopted. However until that time it remained widely known (unofficially) as the Gorillas,

The same official history on page 123 states that the Fitzroy became the Lions for the 1957 season. However the decision to become the Lions for the 1957 season was made in 1956. Officially in 1956, Fitzroy were the "Maroons" and called themselves such.

So when did the Gorillas become the maroons....

 

[Roylion]

So when did the Gorillas become the maroons....

Fitzroy was officially referring to itself as the "Maroons' by 1941.

 

[royals1922]

Fitzroy was officially referring to itself as the "Maroons' by 1941.

Roylion, the article from the Argus in 1937 lists the name "maroons" as being current in 1937 and wanting to be changed to the Gorillas.

Indeed search on Trove "Fitzroy and Maroons" prior to 1937 and you get numerous references to them being the maroons so was it case of always being the maroons, then dropping the name for the gorillas and reverting back to the maroons.

 

[Roylion]

Roylion, the article from the Argus in 1937 lists the name "maroons" as being current in 1937 and wanting to be changed to the Gorillas.

As I said, according to the official Fitzroy Football Club history, Fitzroy officially adopted the Gorilla moniker in 1939. It may have been used unofficially before then.

Indeed search on Trove "Fitzroy and Maroons" prior to 1937 and you get numerous references to them being the maroons so was it case of always being the maroons, then dropping the name for the gorillas and reverting back to the maroons.

They were officially known as "the Maroons" until the 1939 season, when they became officially known as the "Gorillas". Fitzroy were again officially referring to themselves as the "Maroons" by 1941. That doesn't necessarily mean the media or opposition supporters were doing that, especially given the trend for other football clubs to name themselves after fierce animal mascots. In 1956 Fitzroy officially adopted the "Lions" moniker for the 1957 season which replaced whatever the various sections of the football were using (Maroons" or "Gorillas"), to refer to Fitzroy. After all what is a "maroon" exactly? From 1957 though, Fitzroy were indisputably the "Lions".

 

[royals1922]

As I said, according to the official Fitzroy Football Club history, Fitzroy officially adopted the Gorilla moniker in 1939. It may have been used unofficially before then.



They were officially known as "the Maroons" until the 1939 season, when they became officially known as the "Gorillas". Fitzroy were again officially referring to themselves as the "Maroons" by 1941. That doesn't necessarily mean the media or opposition supporters were doing that, especially given the trend for other football clubs to name themselves after fierce animal mascots. In 1956 Fitzroy officially adopted the "Lions" moniker for the 1957 season which replaced whatever the various sections of the football were using (Maroons" or "Gorillas"), to refer to Fitzroy. After all what is a "maroon" exactly? From 1957 though, Fitzroy were indisputably the "Lions".

Roylion the purpose of this board is in part to challenge the accepted history to see if they stand up to scrutiny when compared to then contemporary sources.See for example the rigorous discussion of the history of the shinboners name.In short pre mid 30s there is no mention of that name.

 

[Roylion]

Roylion the purpose of this board is in part to challenge the accepted history to see if they stand up to scrutiny when compared to then contemporary sources.See for example the rigorous discussion of the history of the shinboners name.In short pre mid 30s there is no mention of that name.

You can challenge the history all you like. All I'm telling you is that the official history of the Fitzroy Football Club says that the moniker "the Gorillas" was officially adopted by the club in 1939. The same history suggests that the club was back officially using "Maroons" by 1941. Whatever the media at the time was reporting may not have been correct, or might have been unofficial.

 

[royals1922]

You can challenge the history all you like. All I'm telling you is that the official history of the Fitzroy Football Club says that the moniker "the Gorillas" was officially adopted by the club in 1939. The same history suggests that the club was back officially using "Maroons" by 1941. Whatever the media at the time was reporting may not have been correct, or might have been unofficial.

What sources did the official history cite,annual reports,minutes of meetings

 

[Roylion]

What sources did the official history cite,annual reports,minutes of meetings

The official Fitzroy history was written for the hundredth anniversary of Fitzroy in 1983 and published by the Club for that occasion. Only 800 copies were printed (200 a "Deluxe" leather bound edition) I have one of them. The 204 page book was researched and written by Mike Sutherland, Rod Nicholson and Stewart Murrihy. It used collections of interviews with former Fitzroy players and officials, as well as Fitzroy annual reports, minutes and newspaper reports. Percy Mitchell a long serving Fitzroy official and unofficial Fitzroy historian also made a significant contribution to the book.The book has pride of place in my extensive Fitzroy Football Club book and memorabilia collection.

 

[royals1922]

The official Fitzroy history was written for the hundredth anniversary of Fitzroy in 1983 and published by the Club for that occasion. Only 800 copies were printed (200 a "Deluxe" leather bound edition) I have one of them. The 204 page book was researched and written by Mike Sutherland, Rod Nicholson and Stewart Murrihy. It used collections of interviews with former Fitzroy players and officials, as well as Fitzroy annual reports, minutes and newspaper reports. Percy Mitchell a long serving Fitzroy official and unofficial Fitzroy historian also made a significant contribution to the book.The book has pride of place in my extensive Fitzroy Football Club book and memorabilia collection.

No one is doubting your depth of feeling.I have been involved directly with the preparation of 5 club histories, have seen the process and contributed information to each, hence my question.

 

[Roylion]

No one is doubting your depth of feeling.I have been involved directly with the preparation of 5 club histories, have seen the process and contributed information to each, hence my question.

But not Fitzroy's history. I've also contributed information to a couple of Fitzroy books and been interviewed for one. But that's really neither here or there. My point stands.

 

[royals1922]

All I asked was whether there were citations or references to meetings.

 

[Roylion]

All I asked was whether there were citations or references to meetings.

And I answered that.

 

[royals1922]

Did they cite a date or dates so I can have a look at trove

 

[Roylion]

No. It would have been in the Club's annual report.