Competitions Collingwood All Time Draft Vote Thread

All time Collingwood vote

  • Total voters
    20

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half_back_flank

half_back_flank

Brownlow Medallist
Veteran 10k Posts
Oct 16, 2008
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AFL Club
Collingwood
G'day,

As some of you may be aware, over the past few weeks myself and 10 others have been participating in a Collingwood all time draft to assemble a best 18. (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/collingwood-all-time-draft.1288790) All Collingwood players were eligible and the rules were pretty simple, only a players Collingwood career would be considered and each player was only judged against his contemporaries, not how they would adapt to the modern game. The example Syd Coventry’s height in regards to modern ruckman is irrelevant, he was a champion ruckman in the 20s and 30s and is judged on that.

I certainly enjoyed the experience and would like to give others the opportunity to explore each participants team and vote on who they thought assembled the best team. Jelly Bean has also contacted and arranged for Michael Roberts AKA Lardieslads (a Collingwood historian who has written several books about the club and is the driving force behind the fantastic forever.collingwoodfc.com.au website) to add his thoughts on his favourite team/s which will be fantastic!

So let just get into it, each team listed in draft order. I highly recommend if you have the time to do some research into a few of the names that aren't familiar, its incredible some of CVs of especially some of Collingwood's earlier champions. All are absolutely cracking teams, A special thanks to Trickster who put in some fantastic work maintaining a spreadsheet and producing the statistical analysis on each team. All the graphics displayed in the OP are his creation and he's a superstar.


Raymond 35

Backs: Stan Magro, Michael Christian, Peter McCormack
Half Back: Gavin Crosisca, Billy Picken, Kevin Rose
Centre: Phil Walsh, Mark Williams, Ricky Barham
Half Forward: G Anderson, Leigh Brown, Craig Starcevich
Forward: James Manson, Graeme Fellowes, Tony Francis
Followers: Len Thompson, G Shepherd, Lou Richards


Jelly Bean

Backs: Bob Nash, Gary Pert; Mick Gayfer;
Half Back: Jack Monohan; Len Fitzgerald; Dan Minogue (C)
Centre: Dick Condon; Fred Leach; John Greening
Half Forward: Nick Davis; David Cloke; Charlie Pannam Sr
Forward: Andy Krakouer; Gordon Coventry; Frank Hailwood
Followers: Damien Monkhorst; Brianna Davey; Des Tuddenham (VC)



South Of The Yarra

Backs: Harold Rumney, Jack Hamilton, Al Dummett
Half Back: Denis Banks, Albert Collier, Shane Morwood
Centre: Graeme Wright, Des Fothergill, Bruce Abernathy
Half Forward: Bill Twomey Sr, Frank Murphy, T Lockwood
Forward: H Curtis, Brian Taylor, Mick Twomey
Followers: Darren Jolly, Ronnie Wearmouth, Billy Libbis

South of the Yarra's detailed analysis here

1636184151174.png


Tarkyn 24

Backs: Brayden Maynard, Nathan Brown, Harry Lumumba
Half Back: Heath Shaw, Shane Wakelin, Peter Lucas
Centre: Ken Turner, B Gray, Darren Millane
Half Forward: Dale Thomas, Dermott Brereton, Alby Pannam
Forward: Peter Daicos, Chris Tarrant, D Norman
Followers: Brodie Grundy, Luke Ball, Ads Treloar



Trickster

Backs: R Reeves, Charlie Dibbs, Percy Bower
Half Back: Len Murphy, R Kingston, Jock McHale
Centre: R Dean, J Beveridge, Percy Gibb
Half Forward: B Makeham, Phonse Kyne, Alan Didak
Forward: Josh Fraser, Craig Davis, H Edmonds
Followers: Les Hughes, Nathan Buckley, P Wilson

Trickster's detailed analysis here


Magpies 42

Backs: Lardie Tulloch, Bill Proudfoot, Charlie Utting
Half Back: Fred Froude, Ben Reid, J Ross
Centre: Ron Richards, Marcus Whelan, Steele Sidebottom
Half Forward: J Harris, Murray Weidemann, Vince Doherty
Forward: Brody Mihocek, Ross Dunne, Jamie Elliott
Followers: Peter Moore, Barry Price, Ray Shaw


F89B5546-6FC7-47C4-A3DB-91B15D13154E.png


Half_back_flank

Backs: Leon Davis, J Finch, Bill Strickland
Half Back: E Wilson, George Clayden, Ben Johnson
Centre: Jack Crisp, Bob Rose, Michael Taylor
Half Forward: Harry Chesswass, Travis Cloke, M Bone
Forward: Ted Rowell, Ron Todd, C McCarthy
Followers: Neil Mann, Bill Serong, George Angus

Half_back_flank's detailed analysis here

iGNITER

Backs: Phil Manassa, Simon Prestigiacomo, Alan Toovey
Half Back: Scott Burns, Craig Kelly, Jeremy Howe
Centre: A Aitkinson, Gavin Brown, L Westcott
Half Forward: Paul Williams, Rene Kink, Daniel Wells
Forward: Phil Carman, Peter McKenna, Travis Varcoe
Followers: Graeme Jenkin, Paul Licuria, Tony Shaw



Pie 4 Life

Backs: Tom Langdon, H Saunders, Jack Murphy
Half Back: Max Richardson, P Rowan, Syd Coventry
Centre: Des Healy, Wayne Richardson, Mick McGuane
Half Forward: Tarkyn Lockyer, Anthony Rocca, Brodie Holland
Forward: P Rowe, Dick Lee, Terry Waters
Followers: A Leach, Taylor Adams, Shane OBree

Link to Pie 4 Life’s team analysis

1636177797603.png


Cityslick1

Backs: Isaac Quaynor, Jack Regan, Mal Michael
Half Back: R Byrne, Darcy Moore, Bob Rush
Centre: Geoff Raines, Scott Pendlebury, E Drohan
Half Forward: Mike Richardson, Bill Twomey Jr, Ian Graham
Forward: Terry Steer, Jordan De Goey, A Smith
Followers: Wes Fellowes, Dayne Beams, Thorold Merrett



Gouki88

Backs: J Henderson, James Clement, G Hocking
Half Back: Nick Maxwell, Ted Potter, F Tuck
Centre: Charlie Pannam Sr, Scott Russell, T Drummond
Half Forward: Doug Barkwick, Saverio Rocca, M Seddon
Forward: Paul Medhurst, Ian Brewer, J Pimm
Followers: Ray Gabelich, Harry Collier, Dane Swan



1636177853691.png





Teams


Draft.png


Draft order

Draft order.png ​
 

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Refrained from voting for my own as I think that’s a bit of a cop out.

half_back_flank selected basically every defender I eyed off with the selection before I got there, so I think in that regard I obviously rate that team very highly. All worthy sides for consideration when working through the detail of them though
 
Tarkyn_24 said:
Refrained from voting for my own as I think that’s a bit of a cop out.

half_back_flank selected basically every defender I eyed off with the selection before I got there, so I think in that regard I obviously rate that team very highly. All worthy sides for consideration when working through the detail of them though
Click to expand...

Hahaha, was looking a couple of weeks ago and noticed that my one sad emoji received and 2/4 of angry emoji received from posts were from you for my selections. I understand though, voting for Trickster team was influenced by him knocking off Bob Makeham before I got a chance to nab him. Absolute star during the four peat, missed games through those 4 years, 3 due to playing for the Vics.

While on the topic, honourable mention to magpies42 for knocking off Proudfoot a selection before me, that was a big blow too.
 
half_back_flank said:
Hahaha, was looking a couple of weeks ago and noticed that my one sad emoji received and 2/4 of angry emoji received from posts were from you for my selections. I understand though, voting for Trickster team was influenced by him knocking off Bob Makeham before I got a chance to nab him. Absolute star during the four peat, missed games through those 4 years, 3 due to playing for the Vics.

While on the topic, honourable mention to magpies42 for knocking off Proudfoot a selection before me, that was a big blow too.
Click to expand...
I had an instance of that just about every round
 
Amazing teams, well done to all. If it wasn’t for exams I would have put my hand up, but checked in every now and then with much interest. Really difficult to pick a top team or teams, but are South of the Yarra, Pie 4 Life, iGNITER and magpies42 are amongst my favourites. Unfortunately I can’t vote for them all.
 
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There are lots of great teams to choose from here, but when it came to voting time I'm happy enough with my ultimate choice. I really liked seeing the teams where a few stars from our early days were selected. In this day and age where 'political correctness' is meant to be so important this may not go down well, but Jelly Bean (while I thought the team you picked otherwise was wonderful, as it included many of our early greats) you completely torpedoed your chances by selecting not just a female player, but one who has played only a handful of games for us! You didn't get my vote! It may not have been against the rules to select an AFLW player (it should have been, but I doubt the OP considered that anyone would do such a thing!) but that was a bizarre choice, and came across as a stunt, for mine! Anyone who played less than 50 games for Collingwood should have really been up against it as far as being selected was concerned (there's a few in that category who were chosen), and ideally there would also have been a rule that stipulated that (50 game minimum) as a requirement for anyone to be considered.
 
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35Daicos said:
There are lots of great teams to choose from here, but when it came to voting time I'm happy enough with my ultimate choice. I really liked seeing the teams where a few stars from our early days were selected. In this day and age where 'political correctness' is meant to be so important this may not go down well, but Jelly Bean (while I thought the team you picked otherwise was wonderful, as it included many of our early greats) you completely torpedoed your chances by selecting not just a female player, but one who has played only a handful of games for us! You didn't get my vote! It may not have been against the rules to select an AFLW player (it should have been, but I doubt the OP considered that anyone would do such a thing!) but that was a bizarre choice, and came across as a stunt, for mine! Anyone who played less than 50 games for Collingwood should have really been up against it as far as being selected was concerned (there's a few in that category who were chosen), and ideally there would also have been a rule that stipulated that (50 game minimum) as a requirement for anyone to be considered.
Click to expand...
Ignoring the male pronoun Davey’s selection arguably sits within the below rule, but then so too could U19 and reserve players (Davey is a long way from those in the female game though).

Having said that I agree especially considering the talent remaining. For mine while Davey would be better than male players from our early years (most on here would be) I always look at past players and consider an adjustment in skills, strength, tactics etc would naturally occur with the benefit of modern advances in training and coaching. With that mindset given the physiological differences between males and females personally I just couldn’t get past that selection.

All Collingwood players were eligible and the rules were pretty simple, only a players Collingwood career would be considered and each player was only judged against his contemporaries, not how they would adapt to the modern game
Click to expand...
 

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A couple of things i found interesting while doing this,
I kept staring in awe at the first round of picks, and it's hard to argue against them being Collingwoods 11 greatest players.
I then realised the first 2 rounds looks a lot like Collingwoods all time greatest team possible, with the possible exception of John Greening who went at pick 24.
It seems we all think along similar lines, even though we presumably have different backgrounds and i have no idea who the rest of you are.
 
35Daicos said:
There are lots of great teams to choose from here, but when it came to voting time I'm happy enough with my ultimate choice. I really liked seeing the teams where a few stars from our early days were selected. In this day and age where 'political correctness' is meant to be so important this may not go down well, but Jelly Bean (while I thought the team you picked otherwise was wonderful, as it included many of our early greats) you completely torpedoed your chances by selecting not just a female player, but one who has played only a handful of games for us! You didn't get my vote! It may not have been against the rules to select an AFLW player (it should have been, but I doubt the OP considered that anyone would do such a thing!) but that was a bizarre choice, and came across as a stunt, for mine! Anyone who played less than 50 games for Collingwood should have really been up against it as far as being selected was concerned (there's a few in that category who were chosen), and ideally there would also have been a rule that stipulated that (50 game minimum) as a requirement for anyone to be considered.
Click to expand...

If we had a male AFL player who had played the 2020 and 2021 seasons for Collingwood, and in that time had won a Copeland, a Brownlow and become Pies co-captain, would they have been selected in this comp? Fair to say that they would have. And that mimics Davey‘s accomplishments.
 
I really like raymond35 ’s team. It features many of our golden age players of an era who perpetually came close. The backline is super solid, gee, having Christian, McCormack, Magro, K.Rose, Crosisca and Picken in the same backline, there’s an embarrassment of riches there. IMO that’d be the strongest backline. Walsh and Barham on the wings, and the great Lou Richards on the ball there as well. I really really like this team.

I like iGNITER ’s forward line, with Carman, McKenna and Kink, what talent there!

I found it hard to go past with South of the Yarra ’s team, I loved Ronnie Wearmouth, and many of our historical players were featured.

But ultimately I voted for Jelly Bean ’s team … a great journey through many ages there. He’s featured great names like Gordon Coventry and Dan Minogue. Monkhurst in the ruck. And kudos for picking Davey, clearly a player who is dominant against her contemporaries - which is what the aim of this game was.
 
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This has been so much fun and even just looking at all the teams now, it's amazing how star-studded they all are. I won't do the politician's vote either so if I look at other teams, it's pretty difficult to narrow them down to be honest.

Anyhow, splitting hairs here but for me it'd be between these teams: Tarkyn24, Igniter and half back flank.

I've chosen based on the players which I would have absolutely have loved to have had in my team (now those players exist across each and every team but these teams had those I'd really really have wanted).

Tarks - you've got 2 of my all time favorites in Daics and Millane and you pipped me for Alby Pannam, which I thought he'd slip through as I had the next pick. Still spewing! And I like the youth policy you've gone for too :).

Igniter - your team appeals because of the X-Factor. Imagine McKenna, Carman and Kink when they're all on song with Howe also sitting on people's head down the other end. A record VFL / AFL score in the offering right there!

And HBF, Todd and Cloke in the key positions along with Bobby in the middle and one of the players I'd also have liked in my team and have always been fascinated by, Bottles Chesswas.

And I could make a justification for every single team but I had to draw the line somewhere. Ultimately though, my vote goes to HBF who has selected a brilliant but well balanced team and has the players that I'd most like to cherry pick.
 
76woodenspooners said:
If we had a male AFL player who had played the 2020 and 2021 seasons for Collingwood, and in that time had won a Copeland, a Brownlow and become Pies co-captain, would they have been selected in this comp? Fair to say that they would have. And that mimics Davey‘s accomplishments.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there are some people who agree with you, and who thought it a bold and clever selection. I thought it was a silly selection and suspect most people who have followed the 'draft' would agree, but they'd prefer not to comment, just because! Apart from that selection, I liked the team Jelly Bean picked so much I most likely would have voted for it, but that pick damaged it's credibility, and at the very least cost him/her a vote (and what would currently be equal top spot in the poll)! While it wasn't covered in the rules, I think it should have just been assumed that it was performances for Collingwood at senior level in the VFL (1897-1989) AFL (1990-2021) and also in the VFA (1892-1896) that could be taken into account.

Brianna Davey is a wonderful footballer, but she plays in the AFLW competition. She plays very well in the best possible competition she is allowed to play in. But women's football is not remotely comparable with men's football. The football played in the VFL 100 years ago also isn't remotely comparable with today's game, of course, but the stars of the game back then were playing against the best players in the game. She has also only played 17 games for Collingwood. Even if the fact she plays in the AFLW and not the AFL can be ignored I don't think it's anywhere near enough games to qualify anyone. Jarryd Blair and Tyson Goldsack played more than 150 games for Collingwood and are Premiership players yet didn't get selected. Charlie Tyson captained the side for three years and played more than 100 games for us, yet wasn't selected either. There were reasonable options available at that pick.
 
35Daicos said:
I'm sure there are some people who agree with you, and who thought it a bold and clever selection. I thought it was a silly selection and suspect most people who have followed the 'draft' would agree, but they'd prefer not to comment, just because! Apart from that selection, I liked the team Jelly Bean picked so much I most likely would have voted for it, but that pick damaged it's credibility, and at the very least cost him/her a vote (and what would currently be equal top spot in the poll)! While it wasn't covered in the rules, I think it should have just been assumed that it was performances for Collingwood at senior level in the VFL (1897-1989) AFL (1990-2021) and also in the VFA (1892-1896) that could be taken into account.

Brianna Davey is a wonderful footballer, but she plays in the AFLW competition. She plays very well in the best possible competition she is allowed to play in. But women's football is not remotely comparable with men's football. The football played in the VFL 100 years ago also isn't remotely comparable with today's game, of course, but the stars of the game back then were playing against the best players in the game. She has also only played 17 games for Collingwood. Even if the fact she plays in the AFLW and not the AFL can be ignored I don't think it's anywhere near enough games to qualify anyone. Jarryd Blair and Tyson Goldsack played more than 150 games for Collingwood and are Premiership players yet didn't get selected. Charlie Tyson captained the side for three years and played more than 100 games for us, yet wasn't selected either. There were reasonable options available at that pick.
Click to expand...

It is a very fair debate, but I selected a player who I thought was within the guidelines of the competition, and still do.

On her tenure - yes, it is brief (to date), however others have picked Daniel Wells and Dermott Brereton who have played fewer games. I dispute the claim that her selection would open the door to selection of Collingwood reserves and U19 players, as that is not the highest level they could play at (the AFL/VFL team would be in that context), but Brianna Davey - no matter how talented she ever becomes could never play AFL football, and yet is a Collingwood player deserving of selection.
 
35Daicos said:
Brianna Davey is a wonderful footballer, but she plays in the AFLW competition. … Jarryd Blair and Tyson Goldsack played more than 150 games for Collingwood and are Premiership players …
Click to expand...

Our 2010 Premiership was delivered by players like Goldsack and Blair, but it was also delivered by out-of-the-box thinking.

Up until then the interchange was used to sub out injured players, and to change tactical matchups. The era that brought our 2010 Premiership were the first to use it for aerobic fitness management … others clearly thought that wasn’t within the spirit of the rules because the AFL changed the rules to introduce the interchange cap.

Clarkson was innovative in his approach to hiring assistants (and no doubt other areas as well)

I love innovative thinking like this. IMO it has the ability to provide the biggest determinant of success. In the absence of innovation, the calculus simply becomes which team collectively does their job best and works harder and has more talent and more luck than the 17 other teams? And in the age of the draft and TPP and soft cap the “does job best” and “works harder” and “has more talent” is all balanced out by the system. So it comes down to clubs waiting their turn until their Premiership window opens, plus a bit of luck …

… plus innovation.

So when Davey was selected I thought - is this just a gimmick, or does it deliver value? IMO it delivered value to an already strong team.

She plays very well in the best possible competition she is allowed to play in. But women's football is not remotely comparable with men's football. The football played in the VFL 100 years ago also isn't remotely comparable with today's game, of course, …
Click to expand...

I’d imagine that there are similarities between VFL 100 years ago, and AFLW today. I’m guessing both would have been a a bit more like schoolyard footy in that there are noticeably talented freaks who are just so far above their peers that they can win a game off their own boot. As the comp matures, and training standards become normalized, then there’s probably less variation between players.

For example, I’d reckon the gap between the best and 20th best AFLW player would be far greater than the gap between the best and 20th best AFL player.

And in a comp like this one here where players are being judged against their contemporaries, that gives Davey an advantage IMO.

I respect and appreciate that your opinion is different …

… this place would be very boring if we all had the same opinion about things!
 
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