Collingwood Almanac 2014

[Knightmare]

I forgot to mention Ed Langdon as well at 48. If either of Daniel or Langdon are available at 48 i would want Hine to pick one of them onto the main list. Therefore who are the worst 3 on the main list and of which who would be the one to let go of ( delisted) and possibly rookie them if required.

Ed Langdon's draft position is somewhat of an unknown. If picked he is presumably a late/rookie pick. He is a plausible addition given he is a fairly quick forward but perhaps a few others rated more highly on our draft board. If I picked him again I'd be more inclined to rookie him, but has some scope to develop.

As late as 48 it's highly unlikely any of us will guess who we take. It's real dartboard stuff from a predicting who will be picked standpoint.

 

[Men of Steele]

Ed Langdon's draft position is somewhat of an unknown. If picked he is presumably a late/rookie pick. He is a plausible addition given he is a fairly quick forward but perhaps a few others rated more highly on our draft board. If I picked him again I'd be more inclined to rookie him, but has some scope to develop.

As late as 48 it's highly unlikely any of us will guess who we take. It's real dartboard stuff from a predicting who will be picked standpoint.

Who are the worst 3 on the main list and of which who would be the one to let go of ( delisted) and possibly rookie them if required if we were to use 48.

 

[Knightmare]

Who are the worst 3 on the main list and of which who would be the one to let go of ( delisted) and possibly rookie them if required if we were to use 48.

Oxley, Armstrong and Ramsay are our 'weakest 3', Dwyer could be another who could be downgraded if required. Oxley or Armstrong would be the two I'd look as two players I don't see any other clubs having interest in.

 

[1eon]

love your work knighta. Are we ever picking up that Elijah Edwards? From the NSW scholarship, or was that last year?

Also excuse my positive racism, but I'd love to see an aboriginal in the side providing some excitement whilst we're not competing for the flag. Any chance we'll get one with our later picks or rookie? Assuming we don't get Pickett.

 

[Knightmare]

love your work knighta. Are we ever picking up that Elijah Edwards? From the NSW scholarship, or was that last year?

Also excuse my positive racism, but I'd love to see an aboriginal in the side providing some excitement whilst we're not competing for the flag. Any chance we'll get one with our later picks or rookie? Assuming we don't get Pickett.

Elijah Edwards was eligible last year but was overlooked. The issue there was he was small but couldn't get his hands on the footy enough to be relevant. I'm not even aware if he has played any footy this past year so he isn't in the mix to get selected this year either.

Travis Varcoe should inject some real pace which is welcome. I'd prefer not to have had to have given up Lumumba for him but, that happens. I would have loved Jeff Garlett who is the indigenous footballer I've really been advocating we pick up this offseason but that didn't happen with Melbourne getting him on the cheap as probably the only club to approach him and say they want him.

Jaden McGrath, Nathan Drummond and Francis Watson are some indigenous footballers who could be taken late/rookie. Daniel Butler may also be indigenous. Late/rookie who knows who we pick. Just depends on who remains on our draft board at those stages. I'd be inclined to pass on these. I just don't necessarily see them as the best available talents or the best list fits.

It's been said we've interviewed Waylon Manson extensively (and rightly), but I assume we're also passing on him.

 

[MightyPies1]

Knightmare, do you know much about the 2015 and 2016 drafts, where do they compare with previous drafts do you think at this stage? Will it be a midfielders draft?

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, do you know much about the 2015 and 2016 drafts, where do they compare with previous drafts do you think at this stage? Will it be a midfielders draft?

For more on the 2014 draft you might want to check out my phantom draft thread: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2014-phantom-draft.1060197/
*apologies for the bad formatting, will over the next probably week get another thread going on the phantom draft board where all that will be fixed up when I get the chance.

For this draft I know pretty much what there is to know.

Next year given it's another year away I'm still unraveling it's mysteries.

2015 lacks franchise players and is a draft clubs won't be picking too many guys up late in, but the top 10, top 15 there is strong depth in key position players. It's probably a 40 deep draft which is still ok and after about pick 15 there will be a mix of hits and misses as normal.

2016 isn't as deep for talls but better for midfielders and likely a stronger, deeper overall draft.

 

[Men of Steele]

We have the choice of any midfielder in this draft at 5, obviously leaving Brayshaw, Petracca and Heeney out. Travis Boak is an elite outstanding midfielder and is exactly the type of player we need. He's inside, has the cleanest hands, gets outside and has great spread, he is very good to watch if you just follow him during a game. Who is the Travis Boak clone or closest thing to him in this draft?

 

[Dynamics]

love your work knighta. Are we ever picking up that Elijah Edwards? From the NSW scholarship, or was that last year?

Unfortunately, if you don't grow you don't grow.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Unfortunately, if you don't grow you don't grow.

Is that Tom Boyd?

 

[TradeDraft]

Is that Tom Boyd?

Yes - That is Tom Boyd.

He did his AIS Training with a AFL Club at Collingwood

 

[Dynamics]

Is that Tom Boyd?

Yes.

Trained at the Westpac.

200cm tease!

 

[KJpie]

Knightmare
Any chance of updating your first page so it is relevant to the recent trade period, delisted players, best 22 for 2015, power rankings etc as we currently stand?

Noticed your power ratings and phantom draft were poles apart.

I would think most of us interested in the draft would not be concerned with unforeseeable changes.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Apex36]

Is that Tom Boyd?

Yeah. As short as Edwards is, it doesn't help in that picture that he happens to be walking next to a couple of big KPP's...

 

[Knightmare]

We have the choice of any midfielder in this draft at 5, obviously leaving Brayshaw, Petracca and Heeney out. Travis Boak is an elite outstanding midfielder and is exactly the type of player we need. He's inside, has the cleanest hands, gets outside and has great spread, he is very good to watch if you just follow him during a game. Who is the Travis Boak clone or closest thing to him in this draft?

This year draft does have a poor mans 2006 feel to it. Heeney really is the closest thing to Boak in this draft.

There are no particularly obvious midfielders at 5 and no Travis Boak available as far as I can tell. Laverde could plausibly make that transition but he's not a midfielder yet. Weller can play some midfield but is more outside. Pickett also is more outside and for linebreaking would be terrific as a guy who constantly takes on the game at every opportunity. Probably Laverde if we don't go for a key position player, but I do at this stage slightly favour the talls.

Knightmare
Any chance of updating your first page so it is relevant to the recent trade period, delisted players, best 22 for 2015, power rankings etc as we currently stand?

Noticed your power ratings and phantom draft were poles apart.

I would think most of us interested in the draft would not be concerned with unforeseeable changes.

Keep up the good work.

I'm still working through my phantom draft, getting my top 50 profiles complete and updating all of that.

At this stage I have no plans to update this tread, but a lot has happened since. That's for sure. Just time constraints likely will stop me from updating page one of this.

 

[Lefthanded]

There are no particularly obvious midfielders at 5 and no Travis Boak available as far as I can tell. Laverde could plausibly make that transition but he's not a midfielder yet. Weller can play some midfield but is more outside. Pickett also is more outside and for linebreaking would be terrific as a guy who constantly takes on the game at every opportunity. Probably Laverde if we don't go for a key position player, but I do at this stage slightly favour the talls.

I'm not too fussed about finding an inside mid, I think with Adams, Greenwood, JT & development from BK we should be alright. I'd prefer we add either a long term Cloke replacement or a player with quality disposal, maybe some linebreaking ability as it would be tough for teams to cover pace etc of Freeman, Marsh, Varcoe, Seeds, BK, Broom.

KM, I recall you advocating Grundy having a bit longer to develop in the twos to aid his longevity. I can understand this logic with a Josh Fraser type but given Grundy is already well built as a teen do you think he would be hampered to the same extent / at all by the early exposure?

 

[Knightmare]

I'm not too fussed about finding an inside mid, I think with Adams, Greenwood, JT & development from BK we should be alright. I'd prefer we add either a long term Cloke replacement or a player with quality disposal, maybe some linebreaking ability as it would be tough for teams to cover pace etc of Freeman, Marsh, Varcoe, Seeds, BK, Broom.

KM, I recall you advocating Grundy having a bit longer to develop in the twos to aid his longevity. I can understand this logic with a Josh Fraser type but given Grundy is already well built as a teen do you think he would be hampered to the same extent / at all by the early exposure?

Beyond even Josh Fraser, it's a constant theme with those early draft ruckmen taken early - Leuenberger, Kreuzer, Naitanui. It catches up with them all and seems to hurt their long term prospects.

Grundy is a big lad but even so I want him to continue adding to his game at VFL level, with the occasional tastes at AFL level. That's why I've mostly advocated adding Clark/Giles as they can both let Grundy develop in the 2s and take the pressure off Cloke if Reid is injured.

On the inside mids I'm not huge on the group we've got and I'm seeing in the most part a lack of star power and genuine size and grunt through there. Greenwood will help with that physical size and grunt, although a smaller type if he can replicate his form last season. But it does feel like something is missing.

On outside types I agree with you that we'll look for more speed - wherever that ends up being.

I also expect we avoid sub 180cm guys this year.

But you can never quite know until we see what we end up with and who was deemed the best available talent at each selection.

 

[TradeDraft]

Beyond even Josh Fraser, it's a constant theme with those early draft ruckmen taken early - Leuenberger, Kreuzer, Naitanui. It catches up with them all and seems to hurt their long term prospects.

Grundy is a big lad but even so I want him to continue adding to his game at VFL level, with the occasional tastes at AFL level. That's why I've mostly advocated adding Clark/Giles as they can both let Grundy develop in the 2s and take the pressure off Cloke if Reid is injured.

On the inside mids I'm not huge on the group we've got and I'm seeing in the most part a lack of star power and genuine size and grunt through there. Greenwood will help with that physical size and grunt, although a smaller type if he can replicate his form last season. But it does feel like something is missing.

On outside types I agree with you that we'll look for more speed - wherever that ends up being.

I also expect we avoid sub 180cm guys this year.

But you can never quite know until we see what we end up with and who was deemed the best available talent at each selection.

Well how cheap Peptide Bombers got Giles. I also would of Traded pick 48 for him. So we just don't rely on both Witts and Grundy to be our Number 1 Ruck.

Both will be gun Ruckman but still need help.

Think we might get a State-League Ruckman in the Draft or Rookie Draft

 

[Knightmare]

Well how cheap Peptide Bombers got Giles. I also would of Traded pick 48 for him. So we just don't rely on both Witts and Grundy to be our Number 1 Ruck.

Both will be gun Ruckman but still need help.

Think we might get a State-League Ruckman in the Draft or Rookie Draft

I definitely would have offered pick 48 for Giles to trump Essendon's offer. He's a capable AFL standard ruckman and terrific in the front half. It's highly unusual a depth ruckman gets traded so cheaply let alone someone as good as Giles. I expect next season Giles rebounds and has a strong season.

We could even have had Lowden or possibly even Grimley, it was disappointing we didn't even consider downgrading our third round selection to get one or the other as two other capable ruck/fwds.

Sam Baulderstone and Sam Tagliabue are the two better state league ruckman. I just see them both needing a year at the level before being even relevant depth so given we have missed on both M.Clark and Giles as ruckmen I'd be letting Witts/Grundy/White carry the load. We're in a position were we need to improve our best 22 with depth as a non-contending team not overly relevant.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I definitely would have offered pick 48 for Giles to trump Essendon's offer. He's a capable AFL standard ruckman and terrific in the front half. It's highly unusual a depth ruckman gets traded so cheaply let alone someone as good as Giles. I expect next season Giles rebounds and has a strong season.

We could even have had Lowden or possibly even Grimley, it was disappointing we didn't even consider downgrading our third round selection to get one or the other as two other capable ruck/fwds.

Sam Baulderstone and Sam Tagliabue are the two better state league ruckman. I just see them both needing a year at the level before being even relevant depth so given we have missed on both M.Clark and Giles as ruckmen I'd be letting Witts/Grundy/White carry the load. We're in a position were we need to improve our best 22 with depth as a non-contending team not overly relevant.

I wouldn't have offered 48 for a guy we don't expect to play through the year. Leave that to a rookie spot or something. As you say Id be more likely to leave it with the other 3 and maybe rookie someone.

Someone handy may get delisted yet.

 

[Ketchup]

I know there's been a little talk around tom Lamb and even an recent article on the afl site. Took a look at a few clips and I really like the look of him. Seems to have good skills on both side of the body, good height and a very good runner based on the combine. Long story short.

Is he a chance at 5? Do you see that too high? Any chance of still being around at 30? And what are you general thoughts about him KM?

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

For more on the 2014 draft you might want to check out my phantom draft thread: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2014-phantom-draft.1060197/
*apologies for the bad formatting, will over the next probably week get another thread going on the phantom draft board where all that will be fixed up when I get the chance.

For this draft I know pretty much what there is to know.

Next year given it's another year away I'm still unraveling it's mysteries.

2015 lacks franchise players and is a draft clubs won't be picking too many guys up late in, but the top 10, top 15 there is strong depth in key position players. It's probably a 40 deep draft which is still ok and after about pick 15 there will be a mix of hits and misses as normal.

2016 isn't as deep for talls but better for midfielders and likely a stronger, deeper overall draft.

I was going to say something to you about your formatting but didn't want to be disrespectful after all that effort! But since you mentioned it, this years KM draft analysis is a work of art, it's literally the best place to get information on this years bunch of players and it deserves to be read widely across BF and beyond. You're a gun mate, you get better every year ( as a football writer I see you as still having upside) just need to fix that structure for your main notes, get it so that each section is distinct and easy to read or keep the underlining for the main headings. Just trying to help mate, you know I'm a big fan.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

PS have many questions for you as always at this time of year but most have been covered already.

I'm curious as to who you think we should really target from a) this years draft to improve our flagging midfield, ie basically who should we take at 5 and is it as simple as just taking Laverde? Do you see him having the same scope as Bontempelli and therefore someone who'd really benefit our midfield as a point of difference.

B) who should be number one on our hit list at GWS for next year? I'd be going for Trelaor.

 

[Knightmare]

I wouldn't have offered 48 for a guy we don't expect to play through the year. Leave that to a rookie spot or something. As you say Id be more likely to leave it with the other 3 and maybe rookie someone.

Someone handy may get delisted yet.

It depends on your view of our ruck stocks.

At the moment I see Witts and Grundy as still too young to win with and White I don't regard as AFL quality.

I'd be looking to start the season with Witts and Giles as our ruck combo with Giles more the relief ruckman playing mostly forward.

Grundy having seen Fraser/Kreuzer/Leuenberger/Naitanui all struggle with injury as early draft rucks exposed at AFL level too early I'd be inclined to give another development year or two at VFL level with the occasional tastes at AFL level if Witts/Giles need a rest/have a form slump/miss with injury or suspension.
That and Giles I'd be inclined to say is a better ruckman in combination than Witts and Grundy at this stage with Grundy particularly still not as adept in the front half as someone who seems to kick more goals through the ruck than he does in the front half.

As for squeezing guys out. There are a number of depth guys I'm not fussed if we had to let go of - Armstrong/Oxley/Sinclair/Dwyer/Blair/White/Ramsay/Macaffer. If they stay, they stay, but I don't see any of them as overly important pieces to winning going forward as surplus depth guys.

I know there's been a little talk around tom Lamb and even an recent article on the afl site. Took a look at a few clips and I really like the look of him. Seems to have good skills on both side of the body, good height and a very good runner based on the combine. Long story short.

Is he a chance at 5? Do you see that too high? Any chance of still being around at 30? And what are you general thoughts about him KM?

Lamb I very much hope doesn't go to us at pick 5. He has been highly publicised from the start of the season and initially touted as an early draft selection but I'm not a fan. He probably gets picked somewhere in the teens but I wouldn't be using a top 30 pick on him.

There is just too much I don't like with his game. Inconsistency, too frequently he lacks intensity out on the field, his work by hand too often is sloppy, his defensive smarts and positioning are among the worst in this draft if not the worst, his marking ability is inconsistent, decision making ability too often lets him down, footskills can also let him down, no defined best position, poor disposal efficiency.

Doesn't mean Lamb can't make the grade or become a good footballer, I'm just not seeing him develop into a star or someone worth nearly pick 5.

If you want someone on the tallish side with athleticism/footskills Laverde or Langford are more the guys I'd be looking at. Menadue although more someone you'd take in the 20s/30s is another at around the same height with similarly special talent.

 

[Knightmare]

I was going to say something to you about your formatting but didn't want to be disrespectful after all that effort! But since you mentioned it, this years KM draft analysis is a work of art, it's literally the best place to get information on this years bunch of players and it deserves to be read widely across BF and beyond. You're a gun mate, you get better every year ( as a football writer I see you as still having upside) just need to fix that structure for your main notes, get it so that each section is distinct and easy to read or keep the underlining for the main headings. Just trying to help mate, you know I'm a big fan.

I'll be fixing up the formatting when I make a new thread.

The current thread won't fit all 50 bios so that's why I'm just keeping the badly formatted thread as is for the time being.

But thanks for the kind words regarding my phantom draft. I'm looking every year to take the next step. 2012 my aim was to start to get my ratings better which I started to do rating Wines/Grundy among a few others higher than the recruiters and O'Rourke/Plowman among others lower. 2013 was really covering more players and getting the quantity of bios up. This year it's the quality and depth of information of my top 50 recruits.

I'm just year after year looking for that next thing to take me to the next level and once I've got my 50 bios up and I'm satisfied with them - still a while away yet I'll try to track down the email addresses of some of the club recruiters or just send it to generic club emails and see if I can get some feedback on what I can do next to step things up - as outside the AFL system without that feedback it's hard to what that next step in my progression is and I'm at that stage where that feedback from the pros is what is needed for my development to continue.

At this stage I see my next step for next year as getting more late draft bargains right and perhaps going deeper into the numbers interpretation side of talent identification as two further ways I may be able to distinguish myself. Perhaps if I have more time I'll do some more of that before draft day this year.

My aspiration is less to become a football writer, as much as I enjoy that but eventually to become the head of recruiting or list manager of a football club and eventually the best at it in the country. It's something I've long wanted from a young age and it's something I'll continue to work towards even around work commitments and the other things I do in life. It's a long process and long build towards that and patience will be required on my part but I'll continue to put in the work until I make it.

PS have many questions for you as always at this time of year but most have been covered already.

I'm curious as to who you think we should really target from a) this years draft to improve our flagging midfield, ie basically who should we take at 5 and is it as simple as just taking Laverde? Do you see him having the same scope as Bontempelli and therefore someone who'd really benefit our midfield as a point of difference.

B) who should be number one on our hit list at GWS for next year? I'd be going for Trelaor.

I'm hoping like anything McCartin falls to 5. If he's there he is my pick, and it looks plausible with some talk that Melbourne take Wright and GWS Lever.

After that I'm still in the process of deciding. Wright would after McCartin be that next on my draft board then after that I would be inclined to go with Lever, as much as we don't need a further key defender.

Laverde I like and he among those better few non key position players and has a good mix of traits that suggest he can become excellent, I'll when I get my 50 bios done go back and look again at those I have in the consideration pile and make a more definite call on who we should take at 5, as it's not a selection I'm at all sold on with the evenness at that stage. But on is Laverde as good as Bontempelli? Not for me. He isn't as much of a midfielder at this point. And doesn't have the same extreme scope to improve. Both have the mix of traits to suggest they'll be terrific but Bontempelli can become Kouta, Laverde probably something more like a taller Broomhead, which still would be terrific.

I think you're spot on re. Treloar. Jeremy Cameron is my guy, failing that Jon Patton (but hard to see either leaving with Boyd now gone). Adam Treloar would be my third choice and is in my view GWS' best mid already and their franchise midfielder. I would be exceptionally happy to take an aggressive shot at Treloar and of the relatively realistic trade targets he is also at the top of my list. He looks like as soon as perhaps next year that he'll be a top 10 mid in the game.