Collingwood (didn't) take Kane Mitchell

[Tbone McGraw]

Krakouer the first time around while he had played at AFL level, the perception when he came back was that he was a different player with his dominant play as a midfielder in the WAFL. So it was a new evaluation relative to his first attempt with different circumstances and playing a different role.

Krakouer wasn't a complete miss but I do think he was a relative miss and we did wrongly evaluate him and over-estimate the level of competition in the WAFL and as a result overspend.

I consider 19 year olds to also be mature age. They can at times be difficult to evaluate but playing in the u18s helps and can make it more clear where they stand but in this situation these relative mature agers don't so much match up against the Perham's or Krakouer's with the other state competitions different to the TAC Cup and not competing in the u18 champs.

With the recent rumours of Kane Mitchell, I see it more likely as an either/or proposition as opposed to both. But we'll findout more soon enough.

Knightmare, not often i disagree with but i do regardin Krak. He was the perfect top up to our list as our biggest weakness was small forwards, especially with pick 25 in a weak draft.. I will go as far as to say if krak didn't get injured last year, we make top 2 and have a better chance at flag. I also believe Krak has at least another 3 years in him due to his break from footy.

Marty Clarke on the other hand may have been a waste of a pick.

 

[Kirby]

Yeah I must say I can't class Krak as a miss. He's been as good as we could have hoped.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I don't know how much money we pay Krakouer, but as a first round selection he was expensive now that TD's man Ceglar is training with the Hawks. To be fair to him, his second year began inauspiciously with his personal life then injury willing him gone for the season. To his credit, he returned and kicked goals when needed, and gave the forward line more potency.

I hope we don't select Kane Mitchell, particularly with name players from the ND still available, as other young men seem to present as more attractive football packages. Also, it's a bit like someone telling you ahead of time what you're getting for Christmas. I'd rather a surprise name than 'Kane Mitchell', cos he's already been analysed to death, with his height raising serious question marks in the minds of some of our more knowledgeable posters. Pongracic, Calquhon or somebody else with an unpronounceable name would be a preferred selection to Mitchell.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, not often i disagree with but i do regardin Krak. He was the perfect top up to our list as our biggest weakness was small forwards, especially with pick 25 in a weak draft.. I will go as far as to say if krak didn't get injured last year, we make top 2 and have a better chance at flag. I also believe Krak has at least another 3 years in him due to his break from footy.

Marty Clarke on the other hand may have been a waste of a pick.

I don't necessarily think the top 30 were so bad in 2010. Jack Darling went only the one selection after where we had our pick at 25 so it's not like there weren't any AFL quality talents available.

At the time I had a shortlist of Kieran Harper, Scott Lycett and Jack Darling who I'd still all take ahead of Krakouer and with our drafting typically spot on I would have risked the draft first not rating Ceglar at the time and feeling Krakouer would be about what he has turned out.

But at 25 it's always a risk. It's hardly a pick where you are guaranteed to find an AFL quality talent and Krakouer's return has been fine and good enough.


On Clarke I think if anything the club viewed him as the extra with Jamie Elliott from what I understand exceptionally high on our draft list and well inside our top 20 rankings and it looks like it's working out that way with Elliott going ok in season one. Still unclear how good Elliott becomes and Clarke at this stage is depth until he is best 22.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

I don't necessarily think the top 30 were so bad in 2010. Jack Darling went only the one selection after where we had our pick at 25 so it's not like there weren't any AFL quality talents available.

At the time I had a shortlist of Kieran Harper, Scott Lycett and Jack Darling who I'd still all take ahead of Krakouer and with our drafting typically spot on I would have risked the draft first not rating Ceglar at the time and feeling Krakouer would be about what he has turned out.

But at 25 it's always a risk. It's hardly a pick where you are guaranteed to find an AFL quality talent and Krakouer's return has been fine and good enough.


On Clarke I think if anything the club viewed him as the extra with Jamie Elliott from what I understand exceptionally high on our draft list and well inside our top 20 rankings and it looks like it's working out that way with Elliott going ok in season one. Still unclear how good Elliott becomes and Clarke at this stage is depth until he is best 22.

All very fair points. Thanks for the detailed response.

I can't believe that you remember your short list for the 2010 draft but does sum up why you are such a respected poster.

 

[Knightmare]

All very fair points. Thanks for the detailed response.

I can't believe that you remember your short list for the 2010 draft but does sum up why you are such a respected poster.

I'm not sure if the blog feature is still available on bigfooty - I haven't found it with the changed layout but within my drafts through the years for 2010 I included an if we didn't trade for Krakouer and Ceglar scenario where we still had pick 25. I would have taken Harper perceiving the need for a weapon type forward flanker greatest but I also made mention on there that I also rated Lycett and Darling highly and both would have been on that shortlist at that selection. Hindsight tells us Darling was the clear choice having gone on to have incredible success for West Coast.

When you spend enough time looking at the draft I could probably tell you in any year at each point who I would have selected and whether it would have been the right, an ok or completely wrong call.

Plenty of mistakes in there with Waylon Manson one of my favourites last year, Ben Brown a couple of years ago and Troy Taylor before that who obviously hasn't worked out either then others who I have liked late/rookie who also have gone undrafted. It's only from these mistakes you can better figure out who will feature in the draft, but then also which players make the grade, which ones don't and you learn from that and don't make the same mistakes the next year.

 

[Sun Tzu Buckaroo]

If we do get Dwyer and Mitchell...gee, our VFL midfield is looking good.

Potentially could include Russell, Kennedy, J Thomas, Seedsmen, Dwyer, Mitchell..with the likes of Clarke, Williams, Eliot, Sinclair and Macaffer floating through.

Would have some real run..might need a bit more grunt though.

 

[juzzo]

The Age now linking us with Kyle Martin, certainly seems a distinct strategy.

 

[Matz]

The Age now linking us with Kyle Martin, certainly seems a distinct strategy.

could you post the link?

 

[Shade]

How many rookie spots do we have we have already said to be commited to drafting Hudson and Yagmoor so that makes 2? spots left

maybe we will take some of these guys in the pre season draft

 

[regpies]

For those saying we screwed up taking Krak, take your mind back to half time during the 2011 GF. I challenge anyone to say it was a mistake at that point. He had a very good 2011, we missed him badly this season, our fwd line had no skill, smarts or freak goals without him.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

could you post the link?

It just says we are interested in drafting one or two of Mitchell, Martin and Dwyer.

 

[Bay Pie]

For those saying we screwed up taking Krak, take your mind back to half time during the 2011 GF. I challenge anyone to say it was a mistake at that point. He had a very good 2011, we missed him badly this season, our fwd line had no skill, smarts or freak goals without him.

Exactly. He was our 2nd leading goal kicker in 2011 and almost helped us snare a flag. Pick 25 for a guy who kicks 30+ goals in an almost flag, was certainly a good get. It was nothing to do with Krak that we lost that day. We win the flag it's a great get.

Hindsights stink to be honest.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

For those saying we screwed up taking Krak, take your mind back to half time during the 2011 GF. I challenge anyone to say it was a mistake at that point. He had a very good 2011, we missed him badly this season, our fwd line had no skill, smarts or freak goals without him.

I agree that Krakouer has been good for us. People are simply questioning whether we should have used our first draft pick on him.

 

[jonbe54]

I agree that Krakouer has been good for us. People are simply questioning whether we should have used our first draft pick on him.

With respect MMWSTD with even a half way decent run of injuries we'd have walked away with the flag and Krak would have played a significant role in that.

 

[Knightmare]

The Age now linking us with Kyle Martin, certainly seems a distinct strategy.

I read the article also. It suggested that we will take on of Mitchell/Martin/Dwyer.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bendigo-skipper-to-miss-chance-in-afl-20121208-2b2e6.html

Of the 3 I very much like Martin the most. He's the more pure inside midfielder and had an incredibly impressive season for Frankston. The issue I suspect is that Essendon likely select him first having expressed interest.

 

[Knightmare]

For those saying we screwed up taking Krak, take your mind back to half time during the 2011 GF. I challenge anyone to say it was a mistake at that point. He had a very good 2011, we missed him badly this season, our fwd line had no skill, smarts or freak goals without him.

I agree he was very good in 2011 and even this year when in the team while others disagree I really liked what he produced and felt he was exceptionally lively and a genuine goalscoring threat offering strong value to our best team.

Just giving up pick 25 when Darling was available? With Harper and Lycett the other obvious options of the time. I would have and still would take any of the 3 ahead of Krakouer.

A second rounder no problem, but I felt we could have done a fraction better and still maintain this with Krakouer at the age he was and always likely to be more of a forward with our midfield group strong.

 

[Quicky]

With respect MMWSTD with even a half way decent run of injuries we'd have walked away with the flag and Krak would have played a significant role in that.

MMWSTD MM..D probably roles a little better

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I agree he was very good in 2011 and even this year when in the team while others disagree I really liked what he produced and felt he was exceptionally lively and a genuine goalscoring threat offering strong value to our best team.

Just giving up pick 25 when Darling was available? With Harper and Lycett the other obvious options of the time. I would have and still would take any of the 3 ahead of Krakouer.

A second rounder no problem, but I felt we could have done a fraction better and still maintain this with Krakouer at the age he was and always likely to be more of a forward with our midfield group strong.

That is a childish level of reasoning, Knightmare, and I'm pretty disappointed you would stoop to it.

Obviously the recruiting staff didn't know who would be on the board, and while Darling would be nice, NOBODY thought he'd be there that late, and the possibility of Harper and Lycett wouldn't have been enough to dissuade me from making the deal, particularly given that we got Ceglar in the deal, who we must have rated at the time.

 

[Knightmare]

Obviously the recruiting staff didn't know who would be on the board, and while Darling would be nice, NOBODY thought he'd be there that late,

I expected Darling to be available. I had him going at 26 to Brisbane in my phantom draft of the time due to the personality concerns of the time and the frustraction surrounding his lack of development in his draft year.

The club rated both Krakouer and Ceglar more highly than I did at the time and I'm not saying it was a howler, Krakouer has played which suggests that it is better than a number of pick 25s in the past and Ceglar was better than I had expected though since delisted with Witts the priority and Grundy a recent lucky find as that unexpected slider. But as I said at the time not what I would have done and I still maintain that we could have done better through the draft, though the logic was sound considering our needs and with our premiership window open.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I expected Darling to be available. I had him going at 26 to Brisbane in my phantom draft of the time due to the personality concerns of the time and the frustraction surrounding his lack of development in his draft year.

At the time of the trade period? I'd like to see proof of that...

 

[jonbe54]

MMWSTD MM..D probably roles a little better

Lol Quicky - you have a point the STD esp is a little unedifying

 

[Knightmare]

At the time of the trade period? I'd like to see proof of that...

Before trade week 2010 I had Darling at 21 (Sydney) with a range out to pick 31.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightwheelrqr-2010-mock-draft.746241/

With a final draft of:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2010-mock-draft.768543/

Which as I said - Darling to Brisbane though the selection was 25 with 26 (West Coast) his eventual draft position.


Probably one of the few calls I've got right but again the feeling of the time was that Darling would slide beyond where he was expected to feature.


That said I had Harper as that top rated guy in my power rankings (and would have been my selection) of those remaining with Darling only one position below in my rankings of the time as the rankings in the second link being my final draft suggest.

My feeling was there would always be a slider and I was always recommending for 2010 to stick to the draft with the price for Krakouer and Ceglar too steep. I was hoping that one of Harper, Darling or Lycett would slide. The fact all three slid was as a big a surprise to me as any. During trade week and prior my hope was always for Kieran Harper and he was the guy I was gunning for, for those following my posts at the time, not Jack Darling - seeing as Chris Dawes had his breakout season in 2010 and we really lacked that weapon type forward more so than the second key forward, which Harper very much is with his explosive pace and finishing skills but in the end we got a guy who I now feel will be even better than Harper in Fasolo with a later selection which was a clear win as a guy not expected to be available. Fasolo doesn't have that same athleticism but but he is a match for Harper with his 1v1 game better, better endurance and more ability to win his own ball and the better tackling ability of the two.

I'd still love Harper in our forward half though as he is a nice height but then has the pace and footskills we really lack. Though Darling clearly is the superior selection against any other with the way he has become a top 10 quality forward so quickly.

 

[Shade]

quayle said we are a big chance to take Mitchell

sigh. hope this dude isnt another simon buckley, ryan lonie

 

[Matz]

quayle said we are a big chance to take Mitchell

sigh. hope this dude isnt another simon buckley, ryan lonie

yer totally agree, but how bad can he be? what does hine and co see that we dont?