Roast Community Football in crisis and the lack of response by the AFL

[Tas]

I get it. My five year old is fearless and I worry about him copying his dad from videos flying into opponents, diving at the ball etc. For all the little engineers and doctors and lawyers of the future that might not be a good passtime for weekends in their childhoods.

There is also a big shift away from blue collar work towards white collar, especially with the availability of good education, we have massive shortages of blue collar workers. If you break an arm or a leg it is going to heal or you can get it fixed, the effects of serious concussion are permanent and if you rely on your brain for your work then damaging it is a huge risk.

I think there are a lot of reasons why interest has diminished in senior amateur football and I think clubs having financial problems are a symptom of an evolution rather than the cause. I don't think we are seeing clubs and leagues vanish because there isn't enough money, the proportion of the community interested in it has shrunk dramatically and the leagues that have consolidated that interest are doing okay.

The sad part is there is a lot of history in some of the old clubs, it is sad to see them lost.

 

[Kwality]

We’re already more than halfway there with the fact that most gun 17/18 year olds recruits are drafted into the AFL system via elite private schools.

Community footy gets the dregs

Dont you have to go through the AFL/SANFL/WAFL system to get drafted, U18/19s ?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Dont you have to go through the AFL/SANFL/WAFL system to get drafted, U18/19s ?

The APS school comp (Vic) is only 10 rounds for the season. Kids will have their NAB League Club, an aligned local club, and their school.

They all play for their school because it's part of their scholarship requirements and they know it's closely watched by the AFL types anyway.

They will play for their NAB League team in other weeks when they don't have school footy (if selected of course)

So if somebody is playing 10 weeks for their school, they may be drafted as "Sandringham Dragons" or whatever but may have only played 3-4 games there that year, if that.

 

[Kwality]

The APS school comp (Vic) is only 10 rounds for the season. Kids will have their NAB League Club, an aligned local club, and their school.

They all play for their school because it's part of their scholarship requirements and they know it's closely watched by the AFL types anyway.

They will play for their NAB League team in other weeks when they don't have school footy (if selected of course)

So if somebody is playing 10 weeks for their school, they may be drafted as "Sandringham Dragons" or whatever but may have only played 3-4 games there that year, if that.

Basically the same in WA & I cant see anything wrong with it. More kids get a go at U18/19s.

The logistics around boarders would be interesting. In WA the kids are zoned to the WAFL club where home is.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

from a junior participation and elite pathway point of view, private school footy is slowly killing of local junior footy clubs.

What could the AFL do???

Well it could intervein and actually create a massive win-win for players, and umpires alike IMO.

Firstly, I absolutely can't see an issue with the AFL moving the NAB League (and WAFL/SANFL Colts) to Wednesday nights only, match of the week shown on FoxFooty (Kayo). Really promote it like College sports in the States. But to qualify, you need to play a minimum of 1/3 of the local games with your local club (5/15 games etc.) Really put the emphasis back on promoting kids from local clubs to NAB League, not just Private school kids, who play a handful of NAB games at the back end of the year.

Umpires get to go full time, and are required to umpire a NAB League game every week as well as their AFL/VFL appointment.
However, each week, a representative umpire from the local leagues gets to umpire a NAB League game (given their might be 4 of them now) to invest in a pathway for umpires.

At the moment, Private schools just offer scholarships to good footballers (and you certainly don't blame them for taking them either) and make them prioritise school footy, but even worse, the NAB League clubs pander to them and then make there little incentive to play local footy

If you were starting from scratch I’d increase the draft age by 12 months and have a major under 19’s comp. Then cut back the “pathway system” in Victoria until about u17’s or 16’s minimum. Let kids be kids and play the game without worrying about making all these other sides and hopefully not give up on the dream of playing AFL by the time they are 13 or 14. The longer they stay at a local club the more they will come to love them plus so many of these clubs are near semi professional now they are still going to be in good environments to develop them.

Demographics are killing country clubs more then anything else. Nothing much can be done about this.
Also local clubs shelling out hundreds of thousands for senior players and offering reserves nothing probably doesn’t help. As it’s been mentioned, working on a Saturday and making $300-400 can be pretty vital for a lot of people out there and when the clubs genuinely only reward talent/mercenaries it does get peoples nose out of joint.

 

[Shane Heard]

Dont you have to go through the AFL/SANFL/WAFL system to get drafted, U18/19s ?

Dont you have to go through the AFL/SANFL/WAFL system to get drafted, U18/19s ?

See Bunk’s post following yours for clarification on the subject

 

[Shane Heard]

If you were starting from scratch I’d increase the draft age by 12 months and have a major under 19’s comp. Then cut back the “pathway system” in Victoria until about u17’s or 16’s minimum. Let kids be kids and play the game without worrying about making all these other sides and hopefully not give up on the dream of playing AFL by the time they are 13 or 14. The longer they stay at a local club the more they will come to love them plus so many of these clubs are near semi professional now they are still going to be in good environments to develop them.

Demographics are killing country clubs more then anything else. Nothing much can be done about this.
Also local clubs shelling out hundreds of thousands for senior players and offering reserves nothing probably doesn’t help. As it’s been mentioned, working on a Saturday and making $300-400 can be pretty vital for a lot of people out there and when the clubs genuinely only reward talent/mercenaries it does get peoples nose out of joint.

What you fail to understand is that many gifted, courageous, tough, fast, agile, skilled 18 year olds can handle the heat of League football.

It’s the nature of our game and always has been.

Holding back these type of players and having them run around in “ junior “ leagues racking up 45 touches is a waste of time.

Sheedy imagined and pushed for a U.S. style draft and it’s worked for a long time.

If you’ve got the pace and skills ..then you belong in the big league with the big boys.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

What you fail to understand is that many gifted, courageous, tough, fast, agile, skilled 18 year olds can handle the heat of League football.

It’s the nature of our game and always has been.

Holding back these type of players and having them run around in “ junior “ leagues racking up 45 touches is a waste of time.

Sheedy imagined and pushed for a U.S. style draft and it’s worked for a long time.

If you’ve got the pace and skills ..then you belong in the big league with the big boys.

I do understand that but holding back a handful of genuine best 22 AFL level players for an extra year I really don’t think is a massive deal.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

from a junior participation and elite pathway point of view, private school footy is slowly killing of local junior footy clubs.

What could the AFL do???

Well it could intervein and actually create a massive win-win for players, and umpires alike IMO.

Firstly, I absolutely can't see an issue with the AFL moving the NAB League (and WAFL/SANFL Colts) to Wednesday nights only, match of the week shown on FoxFooty (Kayo). Really promote it like College sports in the States. But to qualify, you need to play a minimum of 1/3 of the local games with your local club (5/15 games etc.) Really put the emphasis back on promoting kids from local clubs to NAB League, not just Private school kids, who play a handful of NAB games at the back end of the year.

Umpires get to go full time, and are required to umpire a NAB League game every week as well as their AFL/VFL appointment.
However, each week, a representative umpire from the local leagues gets to umpire a NAB League game (given their might be 4 of them now) to invest in a pathway for umpires.

At the moment, Private schools just offer scholarships to good footballers (and you certainly don't blame them for taking them either) and make them prioritise school footy, but even worse, the NAB League clubs pander to them and then make there little incentive to play local footy

That might work for the city, but could be more of a problem for Gippsland and interstate travelling teams. The vast bulk of those kids won't get drafted, and many of those that do will be back out of the system before they turn 21. Their education is more important than their football, potentially missing every second Wednesday and Thursday for a couple of years is not ideal.
Would there be enough interest got Fox Footy to be bothered with the broadcast costs?

 

[Kwality]

That might work for the city, but could be more of a problem for Gippsland and interstate travelling teams. The vast bulk of those kids won't get drafted, and many of those that do will be back out of the system before they turn 21. Their education is more important than their football, potentially missing every second Wednesday and Thursday for a couple of years is not ideal.
Would there be enough interest got Fox Footy to be bothered with the broadcast costs?

In WA the local private school comp was available, streamed at a cost.
School Union in Sydney has a similar arrangement.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What you fail to understand is that many gifted, courageous, tough, fast, agile, skilled 18 year olds can handle the heat of League football.

It’s the nature of our game and always has been.

Holding back these type of players and having them run around in “ junior “ leagues racking up 45 touches is a waste of time.

Sheedy imagined and pushed for a U.S. style draft and it’s worked for a long time.

If you’ve got the pace and skills ..then you belong in the big league with the big boys.

I don’t think there’s that many. There’s a few, sure, but even those who do play… many of them are just developing and having games put into them by s**t teams “for the future”.

If you lifted the draft age to 19 or 20 then the quality of the league’s play would improve. The older players that get delisted for the young ones are, at that time, better players than the 18yo kids.

You might see one or two each season who are genuinely producing at a mature player’s level. Daicos did last year. Not sure many others did.

 

[My_Username]

The solution, obviously, is to give all these places their own regional AFL teams.

After all, that's apparently The Solution for Tasmania which is facing exactly the same issues.

More realistically, the AFL needs to get away from the focus on elite pathways where if you don't make they grade you get dumped to the side of the road to make your own way and just encourage people to play at all levels.

It mightn't help the AFL competition level as much as getting 1 extra draftable player, but having a better retention rate for those extra 50 'OK' players who we cast aside because they didn't make the grade still turning up each week and playing would make a huge difference for the lower grades.

 

[My_Username]

The APS school comp (Vic) is only 10 rounds for the season. Kids will have their NAB League Club, an aligned local club, and their school.

They all play for their school because it's part of their scholarship requirements and they know it's closely watched by the AFL types anyway.

They will play for their NAB League team in other weeks when they don't have school footy (if selected of course)

So if somebody is playing 10 weeks for their school, they may be drafted as "Sandringham Dragons" or whatever but may have only played 3-4 games there that year, if that.

I remember one highly rated player a few years back only played 1 token game in NAB cup just to tick the box that he had played there so he could be drafted.

Wasn't draft tampering or anything, he just wanted to play for his local team and avoid too much travel (probably his parents couldn't spend the hours required to drive him to training/matches).

 

[jackster83]

The AFL couldn't give one iota of a * about grassroots football.

The more local clubs and leagues that fold, the more people end up staying at home watching footy on the TV, betting on their phones and getting the official burger of the AFL delivered to their door.

 

[My_Username]

The AFL couldn't give one iota of a * about grassroots football.

The more local clubs and leagues that fold, the more people end up staying at home watching footy on the TV, betting on their phones and getting the official burger of the AFL delivered to their door.

The AFL cares about it's recruiting pathways and to a degree the 'reserves' level comps (WAFL, SANFL, VFL).

Once you're 19/20 and haven't been drafted then the only interest they have in you is as a patron/viewer of AFL games.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

What you fail to understand is that many gifted, courageous, tough, fast, agile, skilled 18 year olds can handle the heat of League football.

It’s the nature of our game and always has been.

Holding back these type of players and having them run around in “ junior “ leagues racking up 45 touches is a waste of time.

Sheedy imagined and pushed for a U.S. style draft and it’s worked for a long time.

If you’ve got the pace and skills ..then you belong in the big league with the big boys.

Get rid of the draft age completely. Just put a rule in place that you cannot be drafted until you have played 25 games of league football at the second tier level. If they have done that at 17 then that’s great if it takes them until they are 19 or 20 then that’s fine too. Clubs will also know a lot more about what they are drafting as they would if played against men already . Win win

 

[10571z]

What is it that the AFL is being asked to do? I'm certainly not disagreeing with the premise, but I'm a little in the dark with what the AFL can do in a lot of these cases.

Its just a knee jerk call you hear all to often.

Most of the issues that these clubs face have nothing to do with the AFL.

Community football has suffered from a huge range of issues

Population decreasing in areas
Saturday work culture
World travel options
Wide array of sporting options for kids/adults
etc

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Get rid of the draft age completely. Just put a rule in place that you cannot be drafted until you have played 25 games of league football at the second tier level. If they have done that at 17 then that’s great if it takes them until they are 19 or 20 then that’s fine too. Clubs will also know a lot more about what they are drafting as they would if played against men already . Win win

That sort of works, except "second tier" is very different in the SANFL to the TSL. And kids from regional areas with no access to play in a recognised second tier league having to move to meet that criteria, with no guarantee of being drafted. Maybe as an either/or criteria, but those not fulfilling the age criteria have to be drafted in the first round or something - to match the risks involved of moving before year 12 is complete.
Remember, a lot of later picks are in and out of the system inside two years; pro sport career over at 19, getting an often small match fee in a state or suburban league for the next 10-12 years if they keep playing at all.
They need to have an education to fall back on. First rounders who flop generally get a second chance somewhere and can at least save something over 5-6 years in the system, where they hopefully have picked up another skill as well.

 

[Bjo187]

I don't think the AFL can do much about senior footy and what's the motivation to anyway? If you play footy as a junior for more than one year that has a 7x more likely transfer to consuming the AFL product in adulthood. I just saw an article yesterday in the Herald Sun that junior footy has bounced back strongly, which is very important.

I agree with others, it's external factors that make senior local footy a less attractive option than it use to be, even just the fact you can consume all 9 games from home on the weekend reduces the appeal of putting on the boots on a weekend.

 

[The_Wookie]

If we are talking senior community football, there's a simple reason why football is dropping away. Money.

Reserves players playing for the love of the game are now taking more opportunities to work on a Saturday. The world is more expensive and the income needs to come from somewhere. High percentage of playing lists being tradies means work on a Saturday will always be available.

Costs to run clubs are high. Ground maintenance, stocking the bar/canteen, player insurances, supplies etc. Money doesnt grow on trees for clubs.

Player payments - Very high for a lot of clubs

Many other reasons but these are the core.

So much of it is this. Things cost more. It costs more to live, so theres no players and volunteers any more. it costs more to operate a club, so they merge or eke it out until they fold.

There really isnt much the AFL can do about cost of living pressures and inflation, short of creating a jobs program. Its already one of the cheapest sports to play as a junior.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

That might work for the city, but could be more of a problem for Gippsland and interstate travelling teams. The vast bulk of those kids won't get drafted, and many of those that do will be back out of the system before they turn 21. Their education is more important than their football, potentially missing every second Wednesday and Thursday for a couple of years is not ideal.
Would there be enough interest got Fox Footy to be bothered with the broadcast costs?

Mate to be honest, for EVERY kid, country or city, education should come first. Even if they do make it in the AFL, it helps them with life after footy.

I don't have a problem with schools offering kids footy scholarships and bettering their education, that part is 100% fine. What my issue is, the AFL have now let the school footy program become greater than it's own development program, which from a business pov is just stupidity. And they could easily put things in place to correct it, whilst still allowing the schools to have their footy program as well, just not one that's more important.

As for Fox Footy, I reckon the U18's program would provide as much commercial value as the AFLW. They could even create a huge interest space with an U18's show weekly which would highlight kids before the draft a lot better than what they do now, just IMO

 

[Brad_5668]

While there are factors outside of the AFL's control, the fact is one of their roles is meant to be fostering the game. Instead they only focus on themselves and dont give a crap about anything else unless they can overtake it and put their name in front of the competition, such as AFL Queensland.
The other problem is kids will think they have no future in the game if they arent drafted by the time they are 18. A lot of them may hae started with Auskick when they were 6 or 7 and have already spent 12 years of their life trying to get to the top. Because the media is so AFL focused, they never look at their local competition such as the WAFL or SANFL and think about building a career there.
The AFL's attitude has left me disenchanted and after 40 years of following the competition, this year I will not watch one moment of a game or read about the results online. I will still follow my local club in the WAFL and suburban club in the Amateurs, but as far as the AFL is concerned, they can go to hell.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Looking at the Tassie situation for a moment, it all comes down to one thing... money.

Pre-pandemic, the salary cap for the TSL was 80k. That's for a statewide league comp, where sometimes you would have to drive up to four hours to play.

Meanwhile, at the same time in Victoria, some suburban leagues had a salary cap on 250k.

It's not rocket science - more chances to earn at least three times the money with less travel in Victoria (plus more job opportunities in Victoria).
How can clubs in Tasmania compete with that?

As also pointed out by other posters, our society changing to a seven day working week (instead of five) has multiple affects.
Some people have shift work, so they can't play or can play every so often (reason I stopped playing Cricket).
People who use to volunteer at a club, because they had nothing to do on the weekend, now choose to work and earn.
The 16-18yos who aren't on the NAB League recruiters radar now choose to work weekends to earn cash to save up and go travelling overseas.

The above means you now have to attract players and canteen/bar/medical/coaching staff by paying them.
This interns puts more pressure on the board (and remaining volunteers) to find more money to pay these increasing costs.

How do you solve it? Not easy, but for one, the AFL needs to fund the salary cap in the TSL and make it higher than the Vic clubs to attract players.

With the Vic suburban clubs, there maybe a salary cap, but we all know a lot gets paid under the table (been going on for countless year). As another poster suggested, perhaps super tight restrictions on transfers?

Either way, there ain't know easy fix, but the AFL needs to be more proactive than just throwing their logo on the jumpers and take their cut!