Universal Love Comparing 'Eras'

[Roddy]

There is much debate about when eras begin, end and so forth. If we three-peat, will we start considering this era in the same heady airspace as '86-'91? Or even '83-'91? That's all the Jeans/Joyce era. Obviously '08-'15, pending three-peating, will be one less flag, but achieved in less time, and the 80s Hawks didn't three-peat. And in an era with less teams and less equalisation measures.
Having lived, breathed and experienced both eras closely, if we manage it next year, I'll be starting to think it's just about line-ball. What do you think?

 

[Procrastinator35]

As Hawkk has mentioned in a previous Fred....Our current era (Circa 2007-2014) is equivalent to & on a par with the 70's era between 1971-1978.

Both have encompassed 3 Premierships & a Grand Final defeat within an 8 year period, though the 70's included a further Preliminary final appearance!

The 1982-1991 era included 8 Grand Finals for 5 Premierships & 3 Grand final defeats, including a 3rd placed Preliminary final appearance on top of that!

Therefore....Another flag in 2015 would still render our current era as second to that of the 80's, but a clear second & in front of the 70's.

The 70's era was every bit as good as the current one for those of us who lived through it!....Such names as Matthews, Knights, Tuck, Scott, Hendrie, Hudson, Moore, Crimmins, Keddie, Ablett, Moncrieff, Bremner, O'Halloran, Eade & Martello could all hold their own when compared against our current crop!

2011-2014 very much mirrors the years 1975-1978!

 

[Brant]

Thanks P35 for ending this thread in the 2nd post!

Literally, not another word need be typed...

 

[mustang]

If we win next year when does the 08 flag become not part of this current era and becomes more like 1978. And not part of the 80's era

 

[Brant]

If we win next year when does the 08 flag become not part of this current era and becomes more like 1978. And not part of the 80's era

2008 had Goo, Birch, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Roughy, Sewell, Buddy & Rioli; &, from memory, Bailey was also with the Club in 2008.

That's plenty to tie 2008 to 2013 for me - same era.

 

[cryptor]

The Clarkson Era. 08 included.

Some people get too caught up on years and decades when it comes to talking about eras. Those are just arbitrary points. We've had the same coach and the same core group of star players over the run.

 

[flinchfree]

One thing that strikes me about the two eras..........
You might not agree, but this current group has been better received, more feted, more respected and more expected to achieve - in my opinion - than the 80's group.
What really stood out, in flabbergasting fashion, was the extraordinarily pessimistic view held by many of that 80's team post 85', and the yearly expectation from pundits and oppo supporters that our team would fade quickly and be too old and too slow to compete.
So much so that every year I watched the regular season with absolute joy and relaxation, watching annihilation after annihilation, but come finals I was always on tenterhooks to see if those prognosticators would be heartbreakingly proved true........Each premiership was greeted with as much relief as joy for me, that we were truly proving our greatness.
They hated our colors, they hated on some of our finest players (Dermie, Dipper, Lethal), but each year like David King they had to help themselves to mounds of crow - only to line up the next year and again predict our fall.

This current group has had much more expectation of success community wide, it's leaders are better loved by columnists and oppo supporters (Hodge, Mitch, Roughy), and it's style of game is almost universally respected and enjoyed.

I still have the 80's group ahead, even with a 3 peat for this era's mob, as I think other clubs stood up harder on Grand Final day to take some of those silver cups away from us to stop the Septo-peat!

Another cup this year, plus one more in the next two years with Hodgey and Mitch still at the club, and I'll call them dead even.

However, I do believe Clarkson, should he win this year's mug, will be Hawthorn's greatest ever coach and has been Sir Alex Ferguson like in his effect on the club.

 

[Pessimistic]

Going on to 80s levels with the salary cap effect would truly be exceptional.

Hawks bolstered the team list with some special talent late 1980s. Platten, Dunstall, Buckenara and Langford to name four. Three as recruits from the top of other state leagues, equivalent of free agency

For the current team to go on to do that, they would gain not lose a buddy, and add the hottest midfielder, full forward and full back, but not have salary cap worries

On the other hand were a matthews to retire today, it would be a fair bit of salary cap space, and we have added burgoyne, gunston, Lake who are close to top line, so I cN see how my point could be argued against

 

[Roddy]

'08-'14 is definitely superior to '71-'78 now, no question. Same amount of flags with a back to back in one less year. The B2B part of the equation is HUGE in my book, since they're so hard to achieve. So many mighty sides haven't been able to achieve it. Geelong of '07-'11, Bombers circa 2000, Blues 1995, Carey led Roos of the mid-late 90s, Hawks of the 70s, Roos of the 70s, despite playing in 5 GFs in a row, etc etc....

 

[mightynineteen]

Don't really like comparing eras. Each one has been unique in its own way.
I'll say this though, I started following the Hawks in 1965. That was the last year we got the wooden spoon. Don't know how many here have gone through a year like that, but take it from me, it was the pits.
6 years later we won the flag, and that experience of winning my 1st flag after the heartbreak of the previous years was just phenomenal.
For this reason,the teams of the 70s, will always hold a special place in my heart.

I suppose just going on statistics the teams in the 80s would be just ahead of this current team, just going on the number of grand final appearances and premierships won.
If we win in 2015, then that 3peat will make this current era our greatest.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Don't really like comparing eras. Each one has been unique in its own way.
I'll say this though, I started following the Hawks in 1965. That was the last year we got the wooden spoon. Don't know how many here have gone through a year like that, but take it from me, it was the pits.
6 years later we won the flag, and that experience of winning my 1st flag after the heartbreak of the previous years was just phenomenal.
For this reason,the teams of the 70s, will always hold a special place in my heart.

I suppose just going on statistics the teams in the 80s would be just ahead of this current team, just going on the number of grand final appearances and premierships won.
If we win in 2015, then that 3peat will make this current era our greatest.

I find it difficult to comprehend why supporters always plump for the latest era as the best.....I suppose it has something to do with it being freshest in the memory. I'm the complete opposite.....Though it's difficult to argue that any era could possibly be better than the 82-91 one; My fondest memories are for the 70's era.

The gut wrenching disappointment of 1975 will never be forgotten, & only the 84 defeat comes close to it for its sheer magnitude of pain!....The 1977 2nd Semi loss was also hugely disappointing (2 points)....Win that game & that Premiership was ours for the taking!....But they made the 1976 & 1978 Wins so much sweeter.

My fondest memories are of Scott, Matthews, Knights, Tuck, Moore Hudson, Hendrie, Martello, Moncrieff & Ablett....These guys were the champions of that era & will always seem larger than life to me for their deeds on the field....It was these guys who taught the generation which immediately followed them, how to win games of football.

I still contend that Matthews, Knights & Tuck are the 3 best players I've ever seen play for this club & that still holds true to this day!....No doubt, something to do with rose-colored glasses & being a highly impressionable kid/teenager!....Each era of success has it's own champions, but these 3 will always shine the brightest for me!....So it's difficult to comprehend the ease with which some posters in here so readily dismiss the 70's as a great era of football for the HFC, given the amount of champion footballers that era embodied.....The origins for our success as a modern-day AFL Goliath has it's genesis here.

 

[mightynineteen]

I find it difficult to comprehend why supporters always plump for the latest era as the best.....I suppose it has something to do with it being freshest in the memory. I'm the complete opposite.....Though it's difficult to argue that any era could possibly be better than the 82-91 one; My fondest memories are for the 70's era.

The gut wrenching disappointment of 1975 will never be forgotten, & only the 84 defeat comes close to it for its sheer magnitude of pain!....The 1977 2nd Semi loss was also hugely disappointing (2 points)....Win that game & that Premiership was ours for the taking!....But they made the 1976 & 1978 Wins so much sweeter.

My fondest memories are of Scott, Matthews, Knights, Tuck, Moore Hudson, Hendrie, Martello, Moncrieff & Ablett....These guys were the champions of that era & will always seem larger than life to me for their deeds on the field....It was these guys who taught the generation which immediately followed them, how to win games of football.

I still contend that Matthews, Knights & Tuck are the 3 best players I've ever seen play for this club & that still holds true to this day!....No doubt, something to do with rose-colored glasses & being a highly impressionable kid/teenager!....Each era of success has it's own champions, but these 3 will always shine the brightest for me!....So it's difficult to comprehend the ease with which some posters in here so readily dismiss the 70's as a great era of football for the HFC, given the amount of champion footballers that era embodied.....The origins for our success as a modern-day AFL Goliath has it's genesis here.

As I stated in my post, the 70s for me were so special. What you have written in your post I readily identified with and agree. It was an awesome time after the earlier heartbreak. In the late 60s my main shining light was Peter Hudson, and he was then joined by the rest of the champs of that era. And champions they were.

However, if you are just looking at it statistically, a 3peat is pretty hard to beat, and it doesn't matter that it was recent. Does it make it my favourite era, NO.
But am I proud of and enjoying the achievements of this current group of players, hell yes.

 

[Hawkk]

7 GF's in a row trumps a three peat on the basis that it has only been achieved on 2 occasions (Melb 1954-60 v Haw 1983-89) as distinct from 5 premiership hat tricks (Carl 1906-08, Coll 1927-30, Melb 1939-41, Melb 1955-57 and BL 2001-03)

A hat trick however would propel 2008-2015 (4 flags (inc hat trick), 5 GF's and a PF) ahead of 1971-1978 (3 flags, 4 GF's and 2 PF's)

A premiership four peat would propel Hawthorn 2008-16 ahead of 1983-1991

 

[flinchfree]

70's were awesome, just like jumpsuits, chico rolls, velour tops and skivvies, and it is close.....but we weren't quite as dominant home and away (compared to 80's) and other clubs certainly challenged us for the decade's mastery. At times North, Carlton, Collingwood and Richmond could all lay claim to being the most dangerous and powerful teams in the 1970's.....even during winning seasons we had trouble beating North, Carlton and Collingwood....

In the 80's there were some challengers, but we put them all to the sword and ended their periods of competitiveness quickly and painfully.

Hawthorn FC H & A record
71' - 19W's v 3 L's Finished 1st (12 teams) *Premiers
72' - 13W's v 9 L's Finished 6th (out of finals, 12 teams)
73' - 11W's v 11 L's Finished 7th (out of finals, 12 teams)
74' - 15W's v 7 L's Finished 3rd (12 teams)
75' - 17W's v 5 L's Finished 1st (12 teams)
76' - 16W's v 6 L's Finished 2nd (12 teams) *Premiers
77' - 17W's v 5 L's Finished 2nd (12 teams)
78' - 16W's v 6 L's Finished 2nd (12 teams) *Premiers


83' - 15W's v 7 L's Finished 2nd (12 teams) *Premiers
84' - 17W's v 5 L's Finished 2nd (12 teams)
85' - 16W's v 6 L's Finished 3rd (12 teams)
86' - 18W's v 4 L's Finished 1st (12 teams) *Premiers
87' - 17W's v 7 L's Finished 2nd (14 teams)
88' - 19W's v 3 L's Finished 1st (14 teams) *Premiers
89' - 19W's v 3 L's Finished 1st (14 teams) *Premiers

 

[Ordovician]

There is much debate about when eras begin, end and so forth. If we three-peat, will we start considering this era in the same heady airspace as '86-'91? Or even '83-'91? That's all the Jeans/Joyce era. Obviously '08-'15, pending three-peating, will be one less flag, but achieved in less time, and the 80s Hawks didn't three-peat. And in an era with less teams and less equalisation measures.
Having lived, breathed and experienced both eras closely, if we manage it next year, I'll be starting to think it's just about line-ball. What do you think?

If we win next year then 2012 to 2015 sides will almost match 1986 to 1989 group.

To match the 80's team this side will have to win a few more flags and play in every GF until 2018.

 

[Dipper]

It's a funny what constitutes an era, I'd automatically think of 83-91 as an era and then the 70s as a whole as another but if you compare the 78,83 and 91 Grand Final sides then with 78 and 83 there's an overlap of around 8 players and between 83 and 91 I think it's only 4.

2008 to 2013 is probably similar to 78-83 in terms of overlapping players and yet I'd have this current era as 08-present and the difference is only real what went before in that there's no prior success to clump 2008 in with.

Maybe 1971 to 1991 is really just one big era of success and you know 2008 to 2028 will be another........

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I still think this era started in 2011

The previous was 2004-2010

Why do I say that?
We lost a great deal in that time.
Vandenberg, smith, Dixon, ladson in 07
Crawf, Campbell in 08
Williams in 09 just to name a few

Those names were what got us the 08 flag (directly or indirectly)

 

[threesixpio]

Imagine beng a Saints supporter reading this thread. Man we're a lucky bunch!

 

[Roddy]

It's a funny what constitutes an era, I'd automatically think of 83-91 as an era and then the 70s as a whole as another but if you compare the 78,83 and 91 Grand Final sides then with 78 and 83 there's an overlap of around 8 players and between 83 and 91 I think it's only 4.

2008 to 2013 is probably similar to 78-83 in terms of overlapping players and yet I'd have this current era as 08-present and the difference is only real what went before in that there's no prior success to clump 2008 in with.

Maybe 1971 to 1991 is really just one big era of success and you know 2008 to 2028 will be another........

I've always thought that too. In fact, that's more of a dynasty. It was 20+ years of sustained glory, yielding 8 flags, and the longest we went without a flag for that whole time was 5 years. And yep, I think we can do similar things during 08-28.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Our current 'ERA' most certainly began with the arrival of one Al Clarkson combined with the careers of Hodge & Mitchell.

The 80's Era began with the arrival of Allan Jeans in 1981....He changed the way we played.

The 70's Era is marked by Kennedy with Parkin providing a cameo appearance at it's end.

They are all pretty clear & distinct periods to me without a hint of equivocation.

The argument for 71-91 being a single ERA could only be postulated on the back of one Michael Tuck's career....But he was a freak of nature & defied time itself....That's why he's referred to as 'Old father time'!

 

[Thaihawk]

After following Hawthorn for 15 years, my era started in 1961, and is still going, albeit with a few flat spots along the way, but I'm still enjoying the ride. When you roll out all our champions from the past, it's hard to imagine today's players mentioned in the same sentence, but names like Hodge, Mitch, Rough, Burgers, Cyril, Smith, Lewis, Birch etc. etc. will probably sit comfortably among the best of our past champions. As I said in another thread, our 2nd and 3rd best ever wound beat many clubs best ever teams. Enjoy the era while it lasts, and may it go on forever.

 

[Ordovician]

There were 9 players from the 1978 premiership team who played in 1980's premiership teams. Hence I tend to see the two era's as distinct in terms of playing style and coaching, but strongly linked through the continuity of personnel.

So to my mind, 1971 to 1991 was one outrageous party with a few marked flat spots just to remind you how good the flag years were.

 

[TAITA]

I still think this era started in 2011

The previous was 2004-2010

Why do I say that?
We lost a great deal in that time.
Vandenberg, smith, Dixon, ladson in 07
Crawf, Campbell in 08
Williams in 09 just to name a few

Those names were what got us the 08 flag (directly or indirectly)

Laddo?????????

 

[cryptor]

I still think this era started in 2011

The previous was 2004-2010

Why do I say that?
We lost a great deal in that time.
Vandenberg, smith, Dixon, ladson in 07
Crawf, Campbell in 08
Williams in 09 just to name a few

Those names were what got us the 08 flag (directly or indirectly)

Ladson played in the 08 flag and was still playing in the team in 2011...

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Ladson played in the 08 flag and was still playing in the team in 2011...

I stand corrected
My point is still valid about this being a much different era