Comparing Fevola and Dunstall

[HARKER]

NO i think Dunstall managed to kick 100 didnt he?

And the rest.

Not a suitable comparison.
Dunstall by quite a bit.

 

[Hodgies Heroes]

Dunstall was the better player imo but one thing to be considered when doing these type of comparisons is that Dunstall played in an era where there was virtually no flooding.

I went to about 260 of JD's 269 games.. no there wasn't "flooding" in that era, it was called "the ruckman dropping back into the hole" instead. It happened constantly to Dunstall, Lockett and Ablett.

 

[Hodgies Heroes]

Simple comparison

Dunstall Record ........... ( vs Fevola )

• 4th highest goals per game in history ...... ( Fevola 55th)
• 3rd Highest total goals in history ............... ( Fevola 48th )
• 4 times club champion ............. ( Fevola 0 )
• 12 times club leading goalkicker ...... ( Fevola 6 )
• 4 times All Australian .......... ( Fevola 2 )
• 4 times Premiership Player .......... ( Fevola 0 )
• 3 times Coleman Medal ........... ( Fevola 1 )
• Hawthorn Team of the Century ......... ( Fev -Italian Team of the Century)
• 6 times topped the hundred goal per season mark ( Fev 0 )
• Highest tally for season -145 goals , third in AFL history ( Fev's highest 99 )
• Kicked 17 vs Richmond , second highest in AFL history ( Fev's highest 8 )

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

This is a bit like comparing Andrew Symonds with Alan Border

 

[blues_future]

I saw Fev play in the 2s in his first year and he reminded me of Dunstall. They are both exceptional leads and great kicks.

There are several differences, one is that Dunstall has finished his career and fev is barely halfway through. But Dunstall is one of the best few full forwards of all time, and one of the most consistent. If Fev wants to get near him he needs to match Dunstall's work and team ethic which was the charactersitic that distinguished him from the other great full forwards. And I doubt it is in Fev's nature. He has the talent to be an all time great but he needs to forget umpires, chase and compete all the time and become a Carlton great. If he does that, by career's end he may well sit comfortably near Dunstall, but that is a big if.

Re saying Dunstall was in Team of the Century and Fev wasn't....he had barely played last century, have to wait till 2099 for that.

 

[Rosstickle]

I saw Fev play in the 2s in his first year and he reminded me of Dunstall. They are both exceptional leads and great kicks.

There are several differences, one is that Dunstall has finished his career and fev is barely halfway through. But Dunstall is one of the best few full forwards of all time, and one of the most consistent. If Fev wants to get near him he needs to match Dunstall's work and team ethic which was the charactersitic that distinguished him from the other great full forwards. And I doubt it is in Fev's nature. He has the talent to be an all time great but he needs to forget umpires, chase and compete all the time and become a Carlton great. If he does that, by career's end he may well sit comfortably near Dunstall, but that is a big if.

Re saying Dunstall was in Team of the Century and Fev wasn't....he had barely played last century, have to wait till 2099 for that.

Fev's been around since 1999, is going into his 11th season and is 28 years old. He's more than just half way through his career.

To equal Dunstall he'd need to kick roughly 800 more goals by the end of his career. Let's say he plays until he's 35 (which most players don't). He'd have to kick 100 goals a year for 8 straight years. It ain't gonna happen.

 

[Merv]

I went to about 260 of JD's 269 games.. no there wasn't "flooding" in that era, it was called "the ruckman dropping back into the hole" instead. It happened constantly to Dunstall, Lockett and Ablett.

Sure they had a player drop back into the hole but it's a lot easier to get around one extra player on the lead than it is in a flooded forward line.

Not too mention Dunstall played in a successful side and fevola has played in one of the poorest teams for year after year.

This doesn't change my opinion that Dunstall was the better player but does show that it may not be as clear cut as some think it is.

 

[hawks_time]

People always use the x player is in a bad/good team so they are advantaged/disadvantaged when talking about forwards but the thing is is that Fevola got the most ball fed to him out of any other forward this last season, sure the quality may not be prime but the quantity should more than make up for that.

 

[gaz15]

This is not a fair argument. Dunstall is in the best 2 full forwards of all time and at least in the top15 players ever-prob top10. Fev, as good as he is, would be lucky to crack the top 150.
Dont get me wrong, Fev is a gun and i enjoy watching him-but seriously!!!!

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Just out of curiosity, and I'm sure a Hawthorn supporter can help me out, how many goals would Dunstall have given away over his career. I'm tipping a lot more than any other full forward has.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Just out of curiosity, and I'm sure a Hawthorn supporter can help me out, how many goals would Dunstall have given away over his career. I'm tipping a lot more than any other full forward has.

i remember back in 97 he gave off a heap and barely played a game.


Blues fans, Fev is good yes, but he is by far the most selfish player for many of years, and will never, ever, be considered along the lines of any other full forward to play the game.

 

[Claude Balls]

Fevola is not of the same class as Dunstall was.

However, I think Fev works harder for his goals than most on here are suggesting, and I also think that while Dunstall was a more team oriented player who gave off a few goals as well as kicking them, he definately had it easier than Fev does now in terms of supply from the midfield. Or at least had it easier than Fev has had if for most of his career thus far.

So my conclusion would be that yes, Dunstall is a legend of the game and one of the great full forwards, though Fev is similarly (not equally) adept at his trade as a full forward, being a brilliant kick, quick and mobile on the lead and a strong mark.

 

[Cynic]

Blues fans, Fev is good yes, but he is by far the most selfish player for many of years, and will never, ever, be considered along the lines of any other full forward to play the game.

Any chance this perceived selfishness has anything to do with the squibbs he has to/had to share the forward line with? Most full forwards could be perceived as selfish but their role is to accept responsibility and have a shot at the goals.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Fevola is not of the same class as Dunstall was.

However, I think Fev works harder for his goals than most on here are suggesting, and I also think that while Dunstall was a more team oriented player who gave off a few goals as well as kicking them, he definately had it easier than Fev does now in terms of supply from the midfield. Or at least had it easier than Fev has had if for most of his career thus far.

So my conclusion would be that yes, Dunstall is a legend of the game and one of the great full forwards, though Fev is similarly (not equally) adept at his trade as a full forward, being a brilliant kick, quick and mobile on the lead and a strong mark.

He also had fullbacks who could man handle and punch the ball away without having to write a thesis, apply for a permit and beg on one knee anytime they chose to try and spoil the forward from marking.
Dunstall had it tough, donlt you worry about that. He played on Gorillas each week, it just happened that he was better than than them at being one.

 

[cs61]

Fevola has the talent to be one of the greats, but he isn't one of them.

Dunstall was a great leader, captain, hard worker, and an extremely intelligent person on and off the field; extremely highly regarded in terms of character. He was a consistent great player, with exceptional leadership skills and also managed to bring other in to the game. One of the most unselfish players I've seen.

Fevola has immense ability but has yet to show anywhere the consistency, attitude and application that Jason Dunstall did in his career, whilst he seems quite selfish in the way he plays as he turns up when he pleases, and it seems to be more about him than the team at times (rightly or wrongly, that is how he comes across).

Jason Dunstall is one of the greats on the field, and brilliant off the field as well for our club as one of the only strong leaders to take control of the club in such a crisis period not that long ago. Can not be spoken about highly enough from a Hawthorn perspective.

Not slightly comparable because at the end of the day its about output not talent and potential.

 

[SlikCysa]

uummmmm.....no
i know what you mean when you say football ability, but i see that as everything involved with the game. the skills are one part, but it also includes tackling, unselfishness, doing what you have to do to win.
dunstall is one of the all time greats of the game (i believe better than lockett, but save that for another day). i luv watching fev play, but he will never be in dunstall's league (he is a better kick for goal though, i will give him that!).
fevola doesnt work nearly as hard as dunstall did, and doesnt even come close to dunstall as a team man.
you saw in the final game against the hawks in 08. fev chased so hard in that final quarter trying to keep the ball in forward line so he could get his hundred. a couple of times he sprinted from one side of the fifty to the other trying to pressure. it was great, but we had never seen it before. dunstall did this week in week out for 13-14 years. would love to know how many goals bung would have kicked if he was awarded the goal his teammate kicked because of his unselfishness, or defensive pressure (i would say he would be well over 1400!!)
dunstall was the first full forward really recognised for pressuring the ball on its way out. 2 of the tackles he laid in the 89 grand final were just unbelieveable, and both led to goals kicked by teammates.
dunstall worked his arse off because he believed it was his job. fevola does it when he thinks he will be rewarded for it. this mindset alone is why you cant compare them.

That post is PERFECTION!!!!

 

[TheRealComptroller]

it also includes tackling, unselfishness, doing what you have to do to win.

fevola doesnt work nearly as hard as dunstall did, and doesnt even come close to dunstall as a team man..

Tackle stats

Dunstall in 231* games laid 174 tackles at an average of 0.7 a game.

Fevola has applied 216 tackles from 164 games with an average of 1.3.

*1986 onward only stats available

you saw in the final game against the hawks in 08. fev chased so hard in that final quarter trying to keep the ball in forward line so he could get his hundred. a couple of times he sprinted from one side of the fifty to the other trying to pressure. it was great, but we had never seen it before. dunstall did this week in week out for 13-14 years. would love to know how many goals bung would have kicked if he was awarded the goal his teammate kicked because of his unselfishness, or defensive pressure

Unselfishness?

Dunstall 2.2 handpasses a game

Fevola 2.0

dunstall was the first full forward really recognised for pressuring the ball on its way out. 2 of the tackles he laid in the 89 grand final were just unbelieveable.

Dunstall may have applied 2 tackles in the 1989 GF but he failed to apply a single tackle in 13 games that season.

The whole "Dunstall was so selfless and more defensive than other FFs" is just complete horseshit.

There is no reality in this world, just perception.

Dunstall averaged 0.7 tackles and 2.2 handpasses a game
Lockett's average was 0.6 and 1.9.

I actually dig Dunstall, this post isn't meant to diss him. It's about this bogus reputation he has acquired for these perceived aspects of his game that just didn't exist.

Give a man a reputation for being an early riser and he can sleep through till noon.

FFS Fev averages almost twice as many tackles as Dunstall.

BTW Fev also averages more tackles than Matthew Lloyd.

 

[Bloods]

Spot on TheRealComptroller. Dunstall was a superstar, loved watching him play but how hard he worked is significantly overplayed.

 

[Artie Bucco]

Give a man a reputation for being an early riser and he can sleep through till noon.

Over his career Fev has 'cracked' it on field a few times and has sooked. We've all seen it replayed 1,000 times after he does it. From this, he has the stigma that he never chases or tackles.

As your post highlights he does tackle well for a FF, Ratten highlighted it at least 4-5 times during last season saying something along the lines of, 'Brendan could kick 1-2 goals a game (instead of the 5-8 he was kicking at the time) if he can chase and apply pressure, like he did today.'

 

[butchy]

Tackle stats

Dunstall in 231* games laid 174 tackles at an average of 0.7 a game.

Fevola has applied 216 tackles from 164 games with an average of 1.3.

*1986 onward only stats available



Unselfishness?

Dunstall 2.2 handpasses a game

Fevola 2.0



Dunstall may have applied 2 tackles in the 1989 GF but he failed to apply a single tackle in 13 games that season.

The whole "Dunstall was so selfless and more defensive than other FFs" is just complete horseshit.

There is no reality in this world, just perception.

Dunstall averaged 0.7 tackles and 2.2 handpasses a game
Lockett's average was 0.6 and 1.9.

I actually dig Dunstall, this post isn't meant to diss him. It's about this bogus reputation he has acquired for these perceived aspects of his game that just didn't exist.

Give a man a reputation for being an early riser and he can sleep through till noon.

FFS Fev averages almost twice as many tackles as Dunstall.

BTW Fev also averages more tackles than Matthew Lloyd.

alright...so every person who agrees that dunstall was the first forward to actually play some defence is the forward line is wrong? i say it again, dunstall was the first full forward noted for his defensive efforts for his team.
it aint bogus mate, its fact. ask anyone with a decent knowledge of the last 30 years and they will agree.
every player would average 1-2 tackles per game, and the best upwards of 5. but dunstall used to spring 30 metres chasing players trying to at worst just put some perceived pressure on them, even if he knew he wasnt going to get them. it doesnt go down as a tackle, but it led to many turnovers and scoring opportunities.
i see you have a stat in there regarding handpasses and relating that to unselfishness........i dont get it....
when i think unselfishness, i was talking about being 40 out directly in front, turning around straight away (dunstall never turned his back to goal if there was a chance someone could be in a better position) and seeing a teammate running to the goalsquare and putting on a platter to him, or leading to about 55 out, and realising he may have been a bit far out so he put it to the hot spot 10-15 out from goal. it also takes into account the shepards, taking his opponent away from an area when he noticed dermie or jarman or even platten running into space. when dunstall played he pretty much played on the belief 'how do i help my team win this game??' and not 'how do i win this game for my team?'.

if you think unselfishness comes down to how many handballs you have per game, then one of us has no clue about this game....

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Tackle stats

Dunstall in 231* games laid 174 tackles at an average of 0.7 a game.

Fevola has applied 216 tackles from 164 games with an average of 1.3.

*1986 onward only stats available



Unselfishness?

Dunstall 2.2 handpasses a game

Fevola 2.0



Dunstall may have applied 2 tackles in the 1989 GF but he failed to apply a single tackle in 13 games that season.

The whole "Dunstall was so selfless and more defensive than other FFs" is just complete horseshit.

There is no reality in this world, just perception.

.

Is this a joke post???
Anyone who wants to dig up handball stats to compare Dunstall to Fev is clearly struggling.

The fact is that Dunstall was more than happy to kick the ball to another player in a better position than him.

If you you chose to live in the fantasy land where Fevola is comparable to Dunstall, then so be it, but realise you're not going to gain much credit.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Is this a joke post???
Anyone who wants to dig up handball stats to compare Dunstall to Fev is clearly struggling. .

Really?

He is supposed to have been sooooooo unselfish yet only gave the ball away by hand a fraction more frequently than the norm.

The fact is that Dunstall was more than happy to kick the ball to another player in a better position than him.

Dunstall averaged about 75% of his kicks being scoring shots

In 2008 Fev only had 70%

In his career Fev only averages 57%

If you you chose to live in the fantasy land where Fevola is comparable to Dunstall, then so be it, but realise you're not going to gain much credit.

Dude, I did no such thing.

The post was about this bullshit perception of an aspect of his game.

A poster claimed that Dunstall was an unselfish tackling machine. I then showed that he was actually half the tackler that Fev is and also tackling at a rate similar to Lockett. He used his hands to pass slightly more than Fev and I have now showed he had shots with more of his kicks than Fevola does.

Myth busted!

 

[hawks_time]

Not quite. The unselfishness would surely come from Goal/score assists? If Fevola still leads that then I'm happy to concede that Dunstall isn't all that selfless, but he is still the better player but a huge margin.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Really?

He is supposed to have been sooooooo unselfish yet only gave the ball away by hand a fraction more frequently than the norm.




Dunstall averaged about 75% of his kicks being scoring shots

In 2008 Fev only had 70%

In his career Fev only averages 57%



Dude, I did no such thing.

The post was about this bullshit perception of an aspect of his game.

A poster claimed that Dunstall was an unselfish tackling machine. I then showed that he was actually half the tackler that Fev is and also tackling at a rate similar to Lockett. He used his hands to pass slightly more than Fev and I have now showed he had shots with more of his kicks than Fevola does.

Myth busted!

Yeah right, does your percentage allow for the fact Dunstall also had more kicks than Fev and kicked more goals......... for some of us who actually watched Dunstall's career and have now seen Fev's we don't need to drag up stats.

I'm not sure you're arguing that Fev is comparable to Dunstall as a player but if you are, you're having a laugh.

 

[gaz15]

alright...so every person who agrees that dunstall was the first forward to actually play some defence is the forward line is wrong? i say it again, dunstall was the first full forward noted for his defensive efforts for his team.
it aint bogus mate, its fact. ask anyone with a decent knowledge of the last 30 years and they will agree.
every player would average 1-2 tackles per game, and the best upwards of 5. but dunstall used to spring 30 metres chasing players trying to at worst just put some perceived pressure on them, even if he knew he wasnt going to get them. it doesnt go down as a tackle, but it led to many turnovers and scoring opportunities.
i see you have a stat in there regarding handpasses and relating that to unselfishness........i dont get it....
when i think unselfishness, i was talking about being 40 out directly in front, turning around straight away (dunstall never turned his back to goal if there was a chance someone could be in a better position) and seeing a teammate running to the goalsquare and putting on a platter to him, or leading to about 55 out, and realising he may have been a bit far out so he put it to the hot spot 10-15 out from goal. it also takes into account the shepards, taking his opponent away from an area when he noticed dermie or jarman or even platten running into space. when dunstall played he pretty much played on the belief 'how do i help my team win this game??' and not 'how do i win this game for my team?'.

if you think unselfishness comes down to how many handballs you have per game, then one of us has no clue about this game....

Spot on. A true football fan!!