comparision

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

I said a couple of weeks ago that we were playing like a box of chocolates - you never know what your going to get. Last night we played like turkish delights - absolute rubbish.

When I went to bed I started thinking about the final we played in Brisbane last year. I know that we lost that game - but - if you look at who played that night and who didn't last night - there is a number of good experienced players that are missing. Please note that I am going by memory only........

IN for the Brisbane Final

Mark Stevens - we miss his dearly, hopefully he is on the comeback trail.
Rhett Biglands - suspended for a stupid incident - playing for the Eagles today.
Mark Bickley - retired
Simon Goodwin - injured
Ben Hart - injured
Nigel Smart - injured & South

In last night

Nathan Bock - young and promising but raw still
Luke Jericho - as above but his enthousiasm is sensational
Trent Hentschel - doing a good job
Ben Hudson - first year


Those 6 players are VERY good players that we are missing. I hope that we can lift and get something out of this season. I hate going to watch crap like I did last night.......thank god they didn't play like that last week!

k
xx

 

[kirky]

Originally posted by MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl
Last night we played like turkish delights - absolute rubbish.
xx

Personally, I like the Turkish Delight chocolate bar.

Biglands will not be playing for the Eagles today - strained a calf on Tuesday - so said someone from the Crows said last night after the game.

 

[PAfolwr]

I admit I didn't see last night's game, but is it the team or the some of the supporters that have extreme ... shall we say reactions?

The two games you won you have to question the quality of the opposition, or better still the reason you got on top and made it look "easy".
Richmond without Richo and Stafford, with Marsh being their ruckman are good starters for that game.
Port without it's midfield when your midfield is your main asset.
Some of the games you lost, you didn't really lose that badly, but listening to reactions here and not knowing the scores, one could swear they were 200 point wins and 250 point losses.

Even read that McGregor is playing good enough to be considered for AA. He has done well, beyond expectations some might say, but to be in the mix for AA? That is extreme.

Now we are hearing players like Bock, Hentschell, Jericho, McGregor and Hudson being criticised. Surely if anyone feels that way, then the expectations on those players are not realistic.

Last night, on paper at least, Essendon had a very imposing team. On paper, you didn't. No idea what happened during the game obviously, but they are strong in areas you are not, and a match for you in the midfield where you are relatively strong.
The Essendon we beat, make that flogged, and the Essendon you played are vastly different.

However, your goals for this year should not have changed.
From where I stand, you are doing a pretty good job at "changing of the guard".
If your expectations for this year are much more than that, then be prepared for massive disappointments.
If your expectations for this year are just that, ie try and get set for next year and beyond in a not so painful way, and for the rebuild to be as short as possible in terms of years, then be prepared for an exciting year.

There, said it.
You can let rip now.

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

Well yous might not have had a full midfield, but we didnt have a forward line or a back line.

We beat Port because they are an average team. The AFL must be trying to rig the draw for you guys, 3 home games in a row?? are you kidding me.

Essendon are alot better than Port, they are more complete. Even though Port do have 5-6 stars in the team they do have alot of hacks who when port are losing are exposed majorly.

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Carmelo Anthony
Well yous might not have had a full midfield, but we didnt have a forward line or a back line.

We beat Port because they are an average team. The AFL must be trying to rig the draw for you guys, 3 home games in a row?? are you kidding me.

Essendon are alot better than Port, they are more complete. Even though Port do have 5-6 stars in the team they do have alot of hacks who when port are losing are exposed majorly.

Nah na nana nah!

My impression of where Port is atm is that we have a team that is about on par with the Kangaroos. Or full team would be far better, but that's life.
Now were they coached by Pagan or Malthouse, or if the game was at one of the Cricket grounds we would be in big big trouble.
As it is anything is possible, from a 60 point win to a 60 point loss. I tipped a win for Port, but then again I always do.

As far as Port always getting a good draw, then you must have been living on Mars.

 

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

Re: Re: comparision

Originally posted by kirky
Personally, I like the Turkish Delight chocolate bar.

Biglands will not be playing for the Eagles today - strained a calf on Tuesday - so said someone from the Crows said last night after the game.

Really? Cause he was named for the Eagles today.

k
xx

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
I admit I didn't see last night's game, but is it the team or the some of the supporters that have extreme ... shall we say reactions?

The two games you won you have to question the quality of the opposition, or better still the reason you got on top and made it look "easy".
Richmond without Richo and Stafford, with Marsh being their ruckman are good starters for that game.
Port without it's midfield when your midfield is your main asset.
Some of the games you lost, you didn't really lose that badly, but listening to reactions here and not knowing the scores, one could swear they were 200 point wins and 250 point losses.

Even read that McGregor is playing good enough to be considered for AA. He has done well, beyond expectations some might say, but to be in the mix for AA? That is extreme.

Now we are hearing players like Bock, Hentschell, Jericho, McGregor and Hudson being criticised. Surely if anyone feels that way, then the expectations on those players are not realistic.

Last night, on paper at least, Essendon had a very imposing team. On paper, you didn't. No idea what happened during the game obviously, but they are strong in areas you are not, and a match for you in the midfield where you are relatively strong.
The Essendon we beat, make that flogged, and the Essendon you played are vastly different.

However, your goals for this year should not have changed.
From where I stand, you are doing a pretty good job at "changing of the guard".
If your expectations for this year are much more than that, then be prepared for massive disappointments.
If your expectations for this year are just that, ie try and get set for next year and beyond in a not so painful way, and for the rebuild to be as short as possible in terms of years, then be prepared for an exciting year.

There, said it.
You can let rip now.

Fabulous post - spot on.
Someone on the outside, who can see the realities of the situation.
The reaction of last week, and this week, are out of context of where the Crows are at this season, and the fact we are rebuilding, and will be very good some weeks, and very bad other weeks.
Its called inconsistency, and it happens because we play kids, and fringe players,who physically or mentally lapse on their opponents, causing loose men, and un-pressured disposals, which any good side will take advantage of.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Fabulous post - spot on.
Someone on the outside, who can see the realities of the situation.
The reaction of last week, and this week, are out of context of where the Crows are at this season, and the fact we are rebuilding, and will be very good some weeks, and very bad other weeks.
Its called inconsistency, and it happens because we play kids, and fringe players,who physically or mentally lapse on their opponents, causing loose men, and un-pressured disposals, which any good side will take advantage of.

It was a very good post by PAfolwr, but his posts usually are, because they're made with objectivity rather than bias.

We've beaten two teams, one who is normally not much chop, who alse were without Richo and a few others and Port with 2/3rds of a side.

The good sides have embarassed us and showed up our many weaknesses.

We have a few good players missing and more importantly are blooding players for the future. It will be a roller coaster ride this year with more downhill moments than we've been used to.

I thought some of the players who have been slammed were okay. Hentschel was ignored by most even for a rookie vote, yet his game rated in the top third of the team. Bock did some useful things and will learn not to hurry his disposal with more experience, while Jericho had a quiet one against very classy opposition in what is only his 7th or 8th game at a level higher than SANFL reserves.

Rather than having a go at these young players, criticism should be directed at players like Burton who played unaccountable football and turned the ball over constantly with disgraceful disposal.

Perrie was as useful as a condom at an eunuch's party. He is totally lost in the backlines, and has lost all confidence at the moment.

It is up to these players to set the example to the young players, not rely on them.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by macca23
Rather than having a go at these young players, criticism should be directed at players like Burton who played unaccountable football and turned the ball over constantly with disgraceful disposal.

Perrie was as useful as a condom at an eunuch's party. He is totally lost in the backlines, and has lost all confidence at the moment.

It is up to these players to set the example to the young players, not rely on them.

I was strong in my support for Burton a couple of weeks ago, when IMO he was unfairly spurned for poor disposal.
Last night, it was obvious for all, and was constantly referred to by the commentators. What was most disappointing was his lack of teamwork, sheperding, tackling..., which was not existent and frequently cost our players posssession, and goals.

Perrie, well he hasn't been right all year, and ATP would be better for himself to go back and get some confidence.
I'm still of the opinion, he can be a valuable longterm asset for the club.

 

[bigman]

Some excellent posts here. The team is changing and the future looks quite rosy with Andrews, Watts, Hentschell, Jericho, Bock, Schuback all lookig like they can play. Throw in a Begley, Massie Mattner, Johncock, etc and we have some quality youth for the future.

We all need to accept some short term gain for some long term gain.

The recruiting committee got it right this year and their decisions will serve us well with a tall spine for the next few years.

 

[bigman]

Sorry my poor editing work - short term pain not gain

 

[jc67]

Originally posted by bigman
Some excellent posts here. The team is changing and the future looks quite rosy with Andrews, Watts, Hentschell, Jericho, Bock, Schuback all lookig like they can play. Throw in a Begley, Massie Mattner, Johncock, etc and we have some quality youth for the future.

We all need to accept some short term gain for some long term gain.

The recruiting committee got it right this year and their decisions will serve us well with a tall spine for the next few years.

You should stick to being a ninja turtle

 

[Stiffy_18]

I think the recruiting staff has done a good job of assembling a spine for the future with the picks that we had. McGregor is still only 23 and has at least another 6-7 years of footy left. Andrews is coming along nicely. He does need to work on his tap work tho but he is still only 18. even if he doesn't learn how to ruck he will still be a handy forward with his strong marking.

FF: Joshua Krueger (If he ever recovers from that back injury)
CHF: Fergus Watts
C: ??????????
CHB: Trent Hentschel
FB: Ken McGregor
R: Rowan Andrews

A lot of these players have a lot of developing to go through before they can be classed as very good player but at least there is something there to work with. This year we need an injection of young quality midfielders and a young ruckman to develop over the next 2-3 years.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by PAfolwr

My impression of where Port is atm is that we have a team that is about on par with the Kangaroos.

Hmmm, pretty interesting there PAfolwr.....

Sorry mate...at least you evaded the 100 point and 94 point margins!

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by ant
Hmmm, pretty interesting there PAfolwr.....

Sorry mate...at least you evaded the 100 point and 94 point margins!

Had I known Wanganeen was out as well I would have gone anywhere from 20 point win to 80 point loss, but still tipped Port as always.
Still ended up worse than that though.
Talk about pathetic effort in the end hey?

If injuries don't stop we will struggle to make the eight.
Port does have the most depth out of any team IMO, but there is a limit.
I think we only had 6 players playing SANFL this weekend including rookies.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by PAfolwr

Port does have the most depth out of any team IMO, but there is a limit.

Port's depth is good, and their injury list shocking.

However, I have to give it to Brisbane for having the best depth in their list - which is why they keep winning without some very good players.

The quality of their number 23 to 30 in their squad is second to none IMO.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I would rate the depth of Brisbane and Port about equal but where Brisbane runs away is the quality of their best 22 compared to Ports.

Brisbane's spine, midfield and defence are better than ports.

 

[conVINCEd]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think the recruiting staff has done a good job of assembling a spine for the future with the picks that we had. McGregor is still only 23 and has at least another 6-7 years of footy left. Andrews is coming along nicely. He does need to work on his tap work tho but he is still only 18. even if he doesn't learn how to ruck he will still be a handy forward with his strong marking.

FF: Joshua Krueger (If he ever recovers from that back injury)
CHF: Fergus Watts
C: ??????????
CHB: Trent Hentschel
FB: Ken McGregor
R: Rowan Andrews

A lot of these players have a lot of developing to go through before they can be classed as very good player but at least there is something there to work with. This year we need an injection of young quality midfielders and a young ruckman to develop over the next 2-3 years.

Agreed, Stiffy. I think Rutten or a player we haven't drafted yet might be a better option at FF. Rutten probably will never be a star, but will compete and be a GAP.

FWIW, IMO we should trade Burton for a first rounder. With that pick and our first rounder, we need 1.) a tough, in and under ball winner, and 2.) a quality ruckman. If we get a priority pick we should take a quality goal-kicking forward and take another gutsy inside midfielder with our second round pick. In the next trade/draft period, we HAVE to trade players for picks, and keep ALL of our picks. If we don't, then I will be severely ****ed off.

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by macca23
Port's depth is good, and their injury list shocking.

However, I have to give it to Brisbane for having the best depth in their list - which is why they keep winning without some very good players.

The quality of their number 23 to 30 in their squad is second to none IMO.

Don't know Macca, I have full confidence in our 23-30. We get caught out when we start going below that.

On Sunday we had 12 players out, and that takes it to 32 just there.
On top of that I cannot help but think that James, Dew, Wakelin and Brogan are not fully fit.
With Wakelin it may just be a form slump, but the other 3 .... well there must be doubts when you see the roles they are given now compared to usual.
Now remove Voss, Black, Lappin and Akermanis from Brisbane's midfield and they would struggle big time just like we have lately.
Akermanis because he is a forward come midfielder just like Pickett is for us. The other three, no explanations required for comparison I think.
Remove a further 4-6 topline players and they would be in further trouble.

Then there is the difference between Matthews and Williams forward set up, where Matthews uses nothing but specialist talls. Williams insists on Tredrea plus ruckmen, right up to the point where we end up with ruckmen only and Tredrea ball chasing on the wings, or Tredrea only having to beat three to four defenders.

 

[Tas]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
Don't know Macca, I have full confidence in our 23-30. We get caught out when we start going below that.

On Sunday we had 12 players out, and that takes it to 32 just there.
On top of that I cannot help but think that James, Dew, Wakelin and Brogan are not fully fit.
With Wakelin it may just be a form slump, but the other 3 .... well there must be doubts when you see the roles they are given now compared to usual.
Now remove Voss, Black, Lappin and Akermanis from Brisbane's midfield and they would struggle big time just like we have lately.
Akermanis because he is a forward come midfielder just like Pickett is for us. The other three, no explanations required for comparison I think.
Remove a further 4-6 topline players and they would be in further trouble.

Then there is the difference between Matthews and Williams forward set up, where Matthews uses nothing but specialist talls. Williams insists on Tredrea plus ruckmen, right up to the point where we end up with ruckmen only and Tredrea ball chasing on the wings, or Tredrea only having to beat three to four defenders.

I think Port has excellent depth, second to Brisbane. Only due to the fact that Brisbane can spend alot more to keep those extra players there.

I was mystified in how Williams structured the team on Sunday. Tredrea would have been odds on to kick 7 goals plus against us if he gave him room to go one-on-one.

But throughout the whole game the forward line was heavily congested. I know we played A Stevens as a loose man in defense but the other players should have moved out of the corridor to give Tredrea room to lead.

He had an ordinary game and missed two sitters, but he still tried hard around the ground and presented.

With so many good midfielders out I expected to see Dew in the middle, he played in defense and really didn't get into the game there. I also expected to see Chad Cornes change to not play a defensive role. I thought he was one of the ones out injured until I noticed him in the last quarter.

I actually agree with your assessment, the weaker Port side was roughly equivalent to our side +/- 5 odd goals. It was really one very ordinary quarter that inflicted the majority of the damage.

But our side is in transition atm with a lot of veterans retiring and new kids coming in, probably wont see a lot of good consistant things from us until around 2006. If we can be competitive until then, its a bonus.

Port is at its prime though, with the exception of a few veterans like Wanganeen. You would expect alot more from them even when only having 28 to pick from (according to commentators they had a squad of 28 to choose from).

It wasn't the loss, that happens even if you are a good team, it was the way they played that would have been disappointing, even outside of the 3rd quarter, it was not great football.

I expect Port to play much harder and more accountable against Richmond this week.

 

[RaDaR ReiLLy]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think the recruiting staff has done a good job of assembling a spine for the future with the picks that we had. McGregor is still only 23 and has at least another 6-7 years of footy left. Andrews is coming along nicely. He does need to work on his tap work tho but he is still only 18. even if he doesn't learn how to ruck he will still be a handy forward with his strong marking.

FF: Joshua Krueger (If he ever recovers from that back injury)
CHF: Fergus Watts
C: ??????????
CHB: Trent Hentschel
FB: Ken McGregor
R: Rowan Andrews

A lot of these players have a lot of developing to go through before they can be classed as very good player but at least there is something there to work with. This year we need an injection of young quality midfielders and a young ruckman to develop over the next 2-3 years.

I know it seems as if I'm always sticking up for Brent Reilly, but I'm just totally confused with your spine of the future at the moment.

If I remember rightly Stiffy, in some posts of yours last year you mentioned about how you thought Reilly was the future, or along those same lines.

Im not having a go at all and I respect your opinion to not have him in that centre, but Im just a little confused as to why you've changed opinion

Just on Rowan Andrews, I fully agree with your place for him in Ruck. Saw him play once and he looks the goods.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Tas
But our side is in transition atm with a lot of veterans retiring and new kids coming in, probably wont see a lot of good consistant things from us until around 2006. If we can be competitive until then, its a bonus.

I actually really like your youngsters. You have draffted pretty well over the years and more importantly you have the mix right. I am a big wrap for Daniel Harris and Drew Petrie and both played really well against Port.

A real good mix of talls and smalls and inside and outside players. A lot of people rave on about the quality of youth at St. Kilda and Freo but Kangaroos have very good youngsters and they got them by smart trading and drafting. None of those youngsters were selected with a priority pick where Kangaroos were insipid for a few years. Kangaroos got a good young squad by still being competative and pushing for the 8 (or making it) every year for the past few years.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by RaDaR ReiLLy
I know it seems as if I'm always sticking up for Brent Reilly, but I'm just totally confused with your spine of the future at the moment.

If I remember rightly Stiffy, in some posts of yours last year you mentioned about how you thought Reilly was the future, or along those same lines.

Im not having a go at all and I respect your opinion to not have him in that centre, but Im just a little confused as to why you've changed opinion

Just on Rowan Andrews, I fully agree with your place for him in Ruck. Saw him play once and he looks the goods.

I still rate Reilly and he is part of the future but personally, as a centerman I like someone who will get the ball and feed it off to someoen like Reilly. Reilly is more of a wingman whoi will eventually move into midfield but for a centerman I would like us to get someone like say Sam Mitchell from Hawks or someone like Daniel Harris from Kangaroos. Those types of players that are real hunters. Someone that is a Bickley type of player.

 

[RaDaR ReiLLy]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I still rate Reilly and he is part of the future but personally, as a centerman I like someone who will get the ball and feed it off to someoen like Reilly. Reilly is more of a wingman whoi will eventually move into midfield but for a centerman I would like us to get someone like say Sam Mitchell from Hawks or someone like Daniel Harris from Kangaroos. Those types of players that are real hunters. Someone that is a Bickley type of player.

Rightio. Cheers

And wishful thinking! Sam Mitchell my ar se! We will never get Sam Mitchell..its like that barbie doll you wanted for Christmas but never got.

Daniel Harris is a possiblilty. Hes got speed.

I think we are all forgetting the forgotten man, Jacob Schuback. He is a carbon copy of Mark Bickley. When he gets game time and when the AFC realise he needs to play AFL footy now.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I still rate Reilly and he is part of the future but personally, as a centerman I like someone who will get the ball and feed it off to someoen like Reilly. Reilly is more of a wingman whoi will eventually move into midfield but for a centerman I would like us to get someone like say Sam Mitchell from Hawks or someone like Daniel Harris from Kangaroos. Those types of players that are real hunters. Someone that is a Bickley type of player.

Stiffy, wouldn't want either player. Harris yesterday displayed wonderful foot and hand skills, but like Mitchell he's slow.
The players who blew Port and the game apart were Harvey and Wells. Their pace, to run through the lines, was something to see.
Yes we need a hard at it type midfielder, but someone with some toe, not a drafthorse.