Conca and Vicks

[Richo is God]

I rate both Griffiths and Vickery highly but Tyrone is just too damaging to ignore. If you asked any team, they'd much rather the opposition forward taking marks in the defensive half than kicking goals.

For every mark from Vick there is an equal amount of absolutely pissweak efforts from him. Stick with griff for now

 

[theflea]

Maybe but i love Batch's physicality. Think its been an important part of our turn around.

Gordon has that nastiness as well.

 

[MR]

For every mark from Vick there is an equal amount of absolutely pissweak efforts from him. Stick with griff for now

Ever since Ty came back from the VFL he had been playing very very good footballer. Better football than Griffiths has ever put up in an entire season. From the 4 games he play, he kicked 10 goals, took 20 marks and was extremely competitive in the ruck.
There are only two scenarios in which I would play Griffiths. 1) He starts kicking goals 2) Vickery isn't physically fit after missing 4 games.

Vickery has been anything but piss weak in his last month of football.

 

[Calcium Man]

Gordon has that nastiness as well.

haven't really seen it yet from Gordo. If you take Batchelor then you need a guy to cover down back for him...

Petterd might be the unlucky one even though he is playing really really well (missed two easy set up kicks but i'll only have held a grudge if we lost ) but he is that third tall forward type but not with the running power of Gordo long term and effectively we are moving Jack into that role if we play the 3 talls.

How good was the kick by Jack to set up gordo's 1st goal, and the added advantage of Jack playing that role it forces him to run and lead which is when he dominates.

 

[theflea]

haven't really seen it yet from Gordo. If you take Batchelor then you need a guy to cover down back for him...

Petterd might be the unlucky one even though he is playing really really well (missed two easy set up kicks but i'll only have held a grudge if we lost ) but he is that third tall forward type but not with the running power of Gordo long term and effectively we are moving Jack into that role if we play the 3 talls.

How good was the kick by Jack to set up gordo's 1st goal, and the added advantage of Jack playing that role it forces him to run and lead which is when he dominates.

Yeah frankly I would say the Batch is the natural replacement for Newman. Gordon uses he body as a battering ram, which is the hardness that I like. He just throws his body up and at the contest and creates a spillage for goals of late. Jack is just a smart footballer which is why, he can play a role as a CHF type. That kick was sublime. Gordon has dropped a few marks of late, so when he starts to clunk it he will be great for us. Him and Lids as high half fwds, that run and spread so far is working well.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Maybe but i love Batch's physicality. Think its been an important part of our turn around.

I agree.
Don't know what's happened but it's like they've just gone enough!
Cotch leading the way,Ivan,batch,Morris,Petterd,Grimes,Rance,Conca,Tyrone...... It's just as though they've decided that physically and therefore mentally we will not be intimidated anymore.
You can see it and feel it. Even just watching the opposition it's like they are trying things that would make us fold like a pack of cards previously and they are now standing back and sort of looking and saying"well **** me "!
Whilst not the cleverest thing I reckon Ty's whack on cox,and Cotchins reaction in the media were an illustration of where our heads are now.
Love it.

 

[DrMike]

We won't beat Sydney without Vickery in the side

 

[caroma]

Team should be left the way it is.

Vickery has been punished by the afl for the whack, now he should cop rd 23 on the sidelines as punishment by the club.


Sent from my Tee-pee using smoke signals.

 

[AstroboyUK]

Maybe not this season, but I'm excited by the prospect of Jack,Ty and Griff making it work together.
What a handfull!
Should and will work.

I cant see it happening. Vickery, Grif, and Jack are a world away from the only combination like it... Tippet, Buddy, Goodes.
In fact that comparison alone shows a) how hard it is to make it work, b) how far off Vickery and Grif are as a dual combination with Jack talent-wise

Fact is he (Vickery) gets probably 10 opportunities + each match and clunks 70% of them. Given how well our mids play tall in the forward half, and the chaos they provide with a bit of pace, adding Vickery is like adding treacle to the forward line. He cant kick more than 40m, so he promotes long, hopeless bombs that he hasn't the ability to hold onto, and cant provide the slightest defensive pressure to hold the ball in once he's spilled the mark... hell, he doesn't even split packs and bring the ball to ground to our advantage.. Vickery is just too inconsistent, does precious little in packs, precious little below the knees and gets 1-3 lucky goals PURELY on the basis of being a tall playing deep getting good delivery. Griffiths may have some improvement required, but at least he's got improvement in him. I reckon we've seen the best of Ty and he's not going to get any better. I'm well and truly done with him.

 

[TigerImposter]

Jack is taking the best key defender, which is all we need from him. Have to remember it was a wet night, which doesn't really help the talls

We play Griffiths and Vickery, with Jack taking their best tall and we'll have a field day

Yep without Jack Griffo wouldn't be as effective
JR8 is working very hard doing lots of hidden 1% ers and is still our best tall fwd

 

[telsor]

Are we talking about the same Griffiths?

The guy who got 11 touches (7 effective, 2 clangers) and 1 goal from 4 shots?

 

[TigerImposter]

Are we talking about the same Griffiths?

The guy who got 11 touches (7 effective, 2 clangers) and 1 goal from 4 shots?

newman only got 12
never under estimate big men ,especially the ones that are working hard and also chopping out in the ruck for Ivan who is our most valuable player with Rance

 

[telsor]

newman only got 12
never under estimate big men ,especially the ones that are working hard and also chopping out in the ruck for Ivan who is our most valuable player with Rance

What you mean is 'never underestimate the favorite big men'. Vickery (who gets somewhat better stats) can be thrown under a bus.

 

[TigerImposter]

What you mean is 'never underestimate the favorite big men'. Vickery (who gets somewhat better stats) can be thrown under a bus.

both are valuable .i haven't bagged tv and you shouldn't be bagging a young guy who has had less opportunities bc of an interrupted career
Especially that he is starting to show potential.

 

[TigerTime88]

Conca will take Lennons spot. Vickery should come in. See who performs next week

Bloody unfair for Lennon. The one thing Hardwick did wrong Saturday night was waiting until 10 minutes to go to activate the sub which is pretty much pointless.

How can a kid get involved in a slipper/wet game like that in 10 minutes.

 

[TigerTime88]

Vickery was lazy the first half of the year (who wasn't), very different after being sent back to VFL. Vickery is also very good up and down the wings.

And if Vickery is a burden with better stats than Griffiths, then I'd hate to know what you call Griffiths?
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=3114&tid2=15&pid2=3332&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

Griffiths impact is bigger imo. Alot of Vickery's goals are soft, where as Griffiths genuinely threatens the opposition with powerful marking.

Can't remember the last time I saw Tyrone take a big mark above his head like Griff does 4-5 times a game.

You are talking up Vickery's goals like he is kicking 5 or 6 every week! He is good for 2 goals a game, where as Griff is good for one, but also presents up the ground and takes some big marks in what would be 50/50 situations.

No brainier for mine.

 

[TigerImposter]

Griffiths impact is bigger imo. Alot of Vickery's goals are soft, where as Griffiths genuinely threatens the opposition with powerful marking.

Can't remember the last time I saw Tyrone take a big mark above his head like Griff does 4-5 times a game.

You are talking up Vickery's goals like he is kicking 5 or 6 every week! He is good for 2 goals a game, where as Griff is good for one, but also presents up the ground and takes some big marks in what would be 50/50 situations.

No brainier for mine.

plus Griffo genuinely hits the pack harder and makes a second effort contest on the ground
where Tv idea of a contest is to continue to think hes a boxing coach

 

[TigerTime88]

My major beef with Vickery is he continually wants to show he is a hard man after the contest by punching on with blokes, belting Cox ect. For once I would love to see him stop being so weak in the contest and when his body is on the line.

 

[DrMike]

Griffiths impact is bigger imo. Alot of Vickery's goals are soft, where as Griffiths genuinely threatens the opposition with powerful marking.

Can't remember the last time I saw Tyrone take a big mark above his head like Griff does 4-5 times a game.

You are talking up Vickery's goals like he is kicking 5 or 6 every week! He is good for 2 goals a game, where as Griff is good for one, but also presents up the ground and takes some big marks in what would be 50/50 situations.

No brainier for mine.

Did you watch last year? Vickery did exactly that up the wings, took some extremely good marks on the wings and in defense. Griffiths has been told to play this role because he's better at it, while Vickery is a better player out of the goal square.

Vickery has averaged 2 marks inside 50 per game and 1.9 goals per game.
Griffiths has averaged 1.2 marks inside 50 per game and 0.7 goals per game.
Both have won the same amount of hit outs, with Vickery doing it in 1 less game.

Argue as much as you want, Vickery is the better FF, Griffiths is the better CHF.

 

[Richo is God]

Also doubt we'd see vickery in defence in the last minutes basically saving the game for us

Argue as much as you want, Vickery is the better FF, Griffiths is the better CHF.

And we already have a FF, so Griff stays

 

[The full package]

1) don't flirt with form

2) every game is potentially our last (that means something), we get no second chances, so selection must reflect this

3) saints will be out to kill our party, we have to take them seriously

4) conca for Lennon on form

5) apparently Jacko wasn't great in the vfl, so another week for him

6) you don't experiment with a previously failed three talls forward structure in elimination games. If Ty gets a game , it will be IMO only off the back of a drop in form of griff

I agree except I wouldn't bring in Conca and I think for what Vickery and Conca did, they actually need to come back through the VFL and not be walk up starts, but in saying that Jacko needs to find match fitness before a jumper is given to anyone. I think we cant afford to have players that aren't match fit running around for us, to many weak links.

Kicks more goals and is a better ruckman. Only thing that Griffiths has over Vickery at the moment is his contested marking.

Griff can clear the ball a hell of a long way when needed, and you have to admit we have been crying out for a contested mark around the ground. If I had to choose between the two it would be close but griff has more attributes, Vickery had some goals handed to him on a platter at stages this year. My biggest gripe with vickery is his defensive side of his game. I would trade him tomorrow but only for a decent draft pick.

 

[DrMike]

Also doubt we'd see vickery in defence in the last minutes basically saving the game for us

Short memories? Go watch some of his 2013 games again and he's down there plenty of times.

And we already have a FF, so Griff stays

Probably the most accurate argument for not bringing Vickery back, nothing to do with Griffiths (and for the record I agree Griffiths should stay in the team). However, Jack has been spending a lot of time out of FF as well, and contributing a lot more because of it. The question is how it impacts our midfield rotation through the forward line.

All I'm saying is that from the past 2 games without Vickery, our talls have not impacted the scoreboard very much, and we've won because our midfield has kicked the goals. I'm all for spreading the load through the team but if we're relying on our midfield to score and they don't, then we have problems.

In an ideal world we should start with the following:
0-20m from goal - Vickery
20-40m from goal - Riewoldt
40-60m from goal - Griffiths

From there Vickery leads to one flank, Riewoldt to the other, Griffiths up the ground.
From there Riewoldt to the goal square, Griffiths to the flank, Vickery up the ground.
Reverse and repeat, push up as required.
Griffiths in defense/ruck, Riewoldt or Vickery on the wing, the other in forward 50.

If it's wet, 2 talls only.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Just on the Griff v Vickery debate, is Vickery playing VFL while suspended (or does his suspension carry over into the VFL as well?).

 

[DrMike]

Just on the Griff v Vickery debate, is Vickery playing VFL while suspended (or does his suspension carry over into the VFL as well?).

Suspended from all competition

But it means he can train his arse off without the game day bumps to worry about

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Amazing amount of story telling going on in here.
It's fantastic that Griffiths has showed a bit since Tyrone went the knuckle but fabricating stories to enhance Griffs output and decrease Vickerys is a bit much to swallow.
I'm hoping Ty's brain snap is the beginning of a beautiful combination.