Conspiracy Theory Coronavirus #2: Lockdowns

[Venkman]

Checking your history for a negative result or negative consequential actions means you lose liberties yes. Checking my history to see what drugs I have and one that has zero net negative results and is not a negative consequential action just isnt the same thing.

Herd immunity in what sense? Their is a very real possibility that the virus flows freely but in the dormant non symptomatic way the vaccine promotes, mutates, the current mRNA fails to respond, Pfizer tweek the vaccine in 6 months time you are back in the chair taking a needle again. Herd immunity means to squash the virus and stop it from existing. The definition is

Herd immunity occurs when a large portion of a community (the herd) becomes immune to a disease, making the spread of disease from person to person unlikely.

This vaccine doesnt do that at all, and if anything promotes the opposite. In 6 months time we will be further away from herd immunity then ever before thanks to Pfizer

well if your going to work in aged care and your going to pass on a virus that will knock over a heap of patients then that might qualify as negative consequential action and, yes, the jury is still out transmission when vaccinated.

re herd immunity: Really hard to tell any of this at the moment - we just don't know long term consequences of vax or infection effects. I don't see a different between the vaccinated resisting and transmitting covid and the unvaccinated. Mrna has nothing to do with it - it's just the vehicle for the protein information, vaxed people will have an immune response that protects them from infection as will the the non-vaxed that process the actual virus. They will both have to contend with any variations that emerge in the future and this will depend of the immune repose that we have. I mean it's interesting what's happening in India with a fall in infections and questions emerging about herd immunity already in some areas - this has experts stumped but it could well be that the virus spreads way quicker than people realise and that India is insulated somewhat by having a younger population that would have a pretty high existing levels of exposure to viruses. This is kind of I'd be interested in - it would pretty helpful if they could tell us what kind of pre existing immunity we have based on exposure to other coronaviruses.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

well if your going to work in aged care and your going to pass on a virus that will knock over a heap of patients then that might qualify as negative consequential action and, yes, the jury is still out transmission when vaccinated.

re herd immunity: Really hard to tell any of this at the moment - we just don't know long term consequences of vax or infection effects. I don't see a different between the vaccinated resisting and transmitting covid and the unvaccinated. Mrna has nothing to do with it - it's just the vehicle for the protein information, vaxed people will have an immune response that protects them from infection as will the the non-vaxed that process the actual virus. They will both have to contend with any variations that emerge in the future and this will depend of the immune repose that we have. I mean it's interesting what's happening in India with a fall in infections and questions emerging about herd immunity already in some areas - this has experts stumped but it could well be that the virus spreads way quicker than people realise and that India is insulated somewhat by having a younger population that would have a pretty high existing levels of exposure to viruses. This is kind of I'd be interested in - it would pretty helpful if they could tell us what kind of pre existing immunity we have based on exposure to other coronaviruses.

If we dont know the consequences, then why do we use it? Dont tell me this is normal behaviour. Do you pay 25,000 dollars for a car if the car salesman says "Well I think it drives, I dont know, havnt really tested the effects and whether it works or not". You are enacting a new behavioural pattern here that goes against your core instincts. Why is that exactly?

Your India example is taking media context isnt it? I mean we have spoken multiple times that every single person in India has received treatment packs for Covid. Could that not be a reason infections and deaths are dropping or is it a wild coincidence?

 

[Venkman]

If we dont know the consequences, then why do we use it? Dont tell me this is normal behaviour. Do you pay 25,000 dollars for a car if the car salesman says "Well I think it drives, I dont know, havnt really tested the effects and whether it works or not". You are enacting a new behavioural pattern here that goes against your core instincts. Why is that exactly?

Your India example is taking media context isnt it? I mean we have spoken multiple times that every single person in India has received treatment packs for Covid. Could that not be a reason infections and deaths are dropping or is it a wild coincidence?

Why use it? Well that's based on your relative fear of covid? You will use if you think that 'unknown' long term effects are worth the risk. I have a fear of the actual virus so for me it's worth it but I make this choice aware of this. To use your car analogy if there is a band of marauding, gun toting anti vaxers over the hill and they want to kill me because I said nasty things about them on the internet then I pony up the cash and jump in that car and hope that it works.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Why use it? Well that's based on your relative fear of covid? You will use if you think that 'unknown' long term effects are worth the risk. I have a fear of the actual virus so for me it's worth it but I make this choice aware of this. To use your car analogy if there is a band of marauding, gun toting anti vaxers over the hill and they want to kill me because I said nasty things about them on the internet then I pony up the cash and jump in that car and hope that it works.

I am not punishing you over your relative fear of Covid? I will end up being punished for my relative fear of the vaccine? and thats OK according to your standpoint.

I guess we need to ask. Why is the fear of Covid one thing and a fear of the vaccine worthy of completely different approaches? You openly admit I will have zero impact on your wellbeing whether I take the vaccine or not so the question needs to be

Why?

Im proposing that to you as your side is differentiating the two. Every person here believes, if you want the vaccine, fine, just take it. But if we dont want it, fine let us not take it

 

[MarcMaverick]

It seems Orwells 1984 is an instruction manual as well.......

 

[Venkman]

I am not punishing you over your relative fear of Covid? I will end up being punished for my relative fear of the vaccine? and thats OK according to your standpoint.

I guess we need to ask. Why is the fear of Covid one thing and a fear of the vaccine worthy of completely different approaches? You openly admit I will have zero impact on your wellbeing whether I take the vaccine or not so the question needs to be

Why?

Im proposing that to you as your side is differentiating the two. Every person here believes, if you want the vaccine, fine, just take it. But if we dont want it, fine let us not take it

I'm perfectly happy with you not taking it. I also don't think you should be punished for not taking it, I don't care. I think the vaccine works to stop serious infection and I don't think covid can be 'stopped' so it doesn't matter what the unvaxxed do in this instance.

I care about anti-vax disinformation - people shouldn't have to contend with all this debunked information.
At it's heart vaccination is a very simple you are exposed to a modified form of the virus and develop an immune response. The dried scabs of small pox victims used to coveted in ancient india for this purpose, whilst immunity to small pox was developed by being exposed to cow pox - we have a long history with it. I think vaxxed vs unvaxxed will be a non-issue as the situation develops because the infection will move through our population.

 

[Crankitup]

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I'm perfectly happy with you not taking it. I also don't think you should be punished for not taking it, I don't care. I think the vaccine works to stop serious infection and I don't think covid can be 'stopped' so it doesn't matter what the unvaxxed do in this instance.

I care about anti-vax disinformation - people shouldn't have to contend with all this debunked information.
At it's heart vaccination is a very simple you are exposed to a modified form of the virus and develop an immune response. The dried scabs of small pox victims used to coveted in ancient india for this purpose, whilst immunity to small pox was developed by being exposed to cow pox - we have a long history with it. I think vaxxed vs unvaxxed will be a non-issue as the situation develops because the infection will move through our population.

Misinformation is happening on both sides. If I go out on the street, how many people do you think would believe the vaccine stops transmission? I guarantee you its alot

You are calling out anti vax misinformation but pro vax misinformation is OK? It clearly does exist. Id strongly disagree that pro vax is of no harm also and anti vax is. What I do with myself in regards to a vaccine isnt a harm to you. If you want to stop me from being a harm to you, a vaccination wont fix that. Banning alcohol/smoking would be a much greater way of doing that but its a negative financial results mean it will never happen I suppose

In the end, I am not really a pro or anti vax information guy. Id just prefer it if both sides get heard. I also wouldnt say one side is spreading more misinformation then the other. Both sides are spreading bullshit. The issue is I think the pro vaxxer side is way more dismissive then the anti vax. Its not a wokeness of any sort. Its more or less a concept that we dont let others actions concern or define us whereas the pro vaxxers side seem to think my actions impact and hurt them so are much more aggressive about it

 

[ioppolo]

I'm pro-freedom of choice personally. Make the vax available. Take it if you want. That's your choice. Just don't force or coerce me to do the same

 

[Bender20]

It's not an absurd comparison - someone checking your history is a loss of a personal liberty. Again, you make your choices though - you don't have to do that job.

I'm not saying the vaxed wont get exposed or that they wont transmit - the overwhelming evidence at the moment though is that it prevents serious illness. I'm just saying we will get herd immunity pretty quick.

I would love to see the overwhelming evidence that vaccines prevent serious illness, I'm not disputing you, it's just I've read a lifetime of papers on the vaccine subject and never seen overwhelming evidence.
I have seen the term used overwhelmingly but not the proof.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Has anyone ever heard of any drug ever that if you take 4 x the dosage it has absolutely no impact on you whatsoever? Like thats not how the body works. Its basic human anatomy. If I give you 4 x of anything its going to take a effect in some shape or form. If I drink 4 x my daily need for water, like im going to piss more.

Just tell us what the effect is rather then weird silence. It just weakens their argument really by being so dishonest

 

[faible]

Has anyone ever heard of any drug ever that if you take 4 x the dosage it has absolutely no impact on you whatsoever? Like thats not how the body works. Its basic human anatomy. If I give you 4 x of anything its going to take a effect in some shape or form. If I drink 4 x my daily need for water, like im going to piss more.

Just tell us what the effect is rather then weird silence. It just weakens their argument really by being so dishonest

It's not really a drug in the sense you're talking about it, and my guess is they have NFI thus why they've sent them to the hospital.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

LOL WTF

Health Minister backtracks, says doctor who gave two elderly patients a vaccine overdose was not trained

This is what happens when you cut corners and have public servants making life or death decisions.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

LOL WTF

Health Minister backtracks, says doctor who gave two elderly patients a vaccine overdose was not trained

This is what happens when you cut corners and have public servants making life or death decisions.

The guy who shoots sheep in the paddock is rarely trained so this isnt any different. Good call

 

[Tiger Toffee]

The guy who shoots sheep in the paddock is rarely trained so this isnt any different. Good call

Fancy ****ing up the vaccinations on the second day of roll out, what's next i wonder.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I get there have been snap lockdowns and border closures but in day-to-day life what is still shut down?

Peoples businesses who could not survive the lockdown.....

Not that anyone cares. As long as their cheap slave labor Chinese manufactured crap is still arriving from Amazon the pro lockdown enthusiasts will be happy

 

[Hawk Dork]

I'm pro-freedom of choice personally. Make the vax available. Take it if you want. That's your choice. Just don't force or coerce me to do the same

Thats not how it works though

If only a few take it there is no guarantee it wont spread and cause more deaths illness and lock downs...who do we blame the anti vaxxers for taking away our freedoms ?

Pretty sure there will be a vax passport and you will need it to go to places were other people go
In Israel that includes the GYM and the Synagogue,in Thailand it will allow you to enter without quarantine other countries will do the same

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Thats not how it works though

If only a few take it there is no guarantee it wont spread and cause more deaths illness and lock downs...who do we blame the anti vaxxers for taking away our freedoms ?

Pretty sure there will be a vax passport and you will need it to go to places were other people go
In Israel that includes the GYM and the Synagogue,in Thailand it will allow you to enter without quarantine other countries will do the same

Use your brains Dorkie and think for a minute, if vax passports become a thing then that will allow for corruption of the highest order IMO.

Imagine everyone gets the jab and thinks that's it until a country then declares your vaccination is no longer valid as it was too long ago and you need to get re-jabbed $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, this is not ending for big Pharma after one dose of vaccine dorkie and as for quarantine huh, wait till countries declare your vaccine made in your own country is not compatible to it's countries citizens, boom 14 days quarantine and get jabbed with that countries vaccine.

Dangerous dangerous territory dorkie when there are some very corrupt countries out there.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Use your brains Dorkie and think for a minute, if vax passports become a thing then that will allow for corruption of the highest order IMO.

Imagine everyone gets the jab and thinks that's it until a country then declares your vaccination is no longer valid as it was too long ago and you need to get re-jabbed $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, this is not ending for big Pharma after one dose of vaccine dorkie and as for quarantine huh, wait till countries declare your vaccine made in your own country is not compatible to it's countries citizens, boom 14 days quarantine and get jabbed with that countries vaccine.

Dangerous dangerous territory dorkie when there are some very corrupt countries out there.

Theres no doubt there will be more jabs

Some jabs will not be allowed in certain countries
Some will be needed way more than others

We seemed to have backed the not so great one
Though Scomo got the good one for himself

 

[Nothing]

Use your brains Dorkie and think for a minute, if vax passports become a thing then that will allow for corruption of the highest order IMO.

Imagine everyone gets the jab and thinks that's it until a country then declares your vaccination is no longer valid as it was too long ago and you need to get re-jabbed $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, this is not ending for big Pharma after one dose of vaccine dorkie and as for quarantine huh, wait till countries declare your vaccine made in your own country is not compatible to it's countries citizens, boom 14 days quarantine and get jabbed with that countries vaccine.

Dangerous dangerous territory dorkie when there are some very corrupt countries out there.

Like they do with Yellow Fever vaccinations?

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Theres no doubt there will be more jabs

Some jabs will not be allowed in certain countries
Some will be needed way more than others

We seemed to have backed the not so great one
Though Scomo got the good one for himself

We have the homebrand version by the sounds of it, AZ should be turfed. My parents i know will be getting it so i hope they stay well away from AZ.

I'm way way down the pecking order and won't be hassled to get it until 2022 IMO not that i am by the way so i get to sit back and watch it all unfold.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Thats not how it works though

If only a few take it there is no guarantee it wont spread and cause more deaths illness and lock downs...who do we blame the anti vaxxers for taking away our freedoms ?

Pretty sure there will be a vax passport and you will need it to go to places were other people go
In Israel that includes the GYM and the Synagogue,in Thailand it will allow you to enter without quarantine other countries will do the same

What bit about you will still get the virus is hard to comprehend? Vaccination wont stop this theory in the slightest. It will spread still

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Like they do with Yellow Fever vaccinations?

Yellow fever is limited to a small region, this thing is a new cab of the rank affecting the whole world not just one little region, big difference.

 

[GuzzLG]

Thats not how it works though

If only a few take it there is no guarantee it wont spread and cause more deaths illness and lock downs...who do we blame the anti vaxxers for taking away our freedoms ?

Pretty sure there will be a vax passport and you will need it to go to places were other people go
In Israel that includes the GYM and the Synagogue,in Thailand it will allow you to enter without quarantine other countries will do the same

Viruses don’t cause lockdowns

 

[Hawk Dork]

Viruses don’t cause lockdowns

Global lockdowns google it