News Coronavirus and the draft

[GUMBLETRON]

First step

Community football gets green light, training rules revealed

AFL Victoria is permitting community footballers to train in groups of 10 from Monday

www.afl.com.au

 

[TheGrizz]

what happens to ports Fs and nga prospects? They’ll likely get bid on late second onwards? We miss out on getting them? We get them for free? Does everyone then get them for free this year? (That’s a problem if so). How do we work out points? Does everyone lose their later draft picks? You mentioned traded ones moving to next year but what about original late picks?

Geez, settle down.
Maybe come up with a solution yourself then?

If you have a NGA or F/S talent available then you would do what you would normally do to an extent. You would try load up on later 2nd rounders in case someone bids.
Obviously that means leaving list spots fornthe NGA/FS you think might go off the board.

If you use all your picks and someone bids for one of you nominated players, one thing they could do is you can match it and the defecit will come off your 2021 picks from the 3rd round or later. That way you can trade back in 2021 to get more picks if you have NGa talent then.

If you use all your picks and fill up all your list spots, and someone bids on your player then you lose them.... just like every other year.

If you dont draft them and no one picks them up, you can rookie them (if the rookie list exists) or they hold over to next year and you can nominate again.

See, that wasnt so hard was it? So maybe just calm down.
Plenty of clubs will be in that position, not just port.

 

[philthy05]

That’s a pretty ******* simple answer.

If no one bids on them, and Port have the available list spaces, then Port can choose to sign them, or if Port believes there are better kids, Port can draft other kids instead.

If Port don’t have late second round picks, and the kids are genuine second round talents, another club can still draft them.

We’ve seen that in the past with Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS kids getting drafted by other clubs.

Being a father son or nga prospect has never been a guarantee to being drafted.

With shorter lists, and fewer draftees likely, it just means only the top kids get drafted or bid on now.

Instead of ~70 kids being drafted each year, we’ll see ~40 kids drafted.

Those 30+ extra kids that now miss out can choose to keep playing SANFL, or which ever state league, just like every other kid that has missed out in the past.

If they’re good enough, and show continual growth, they’ll get drafted as a mature age recruit, like Tim Kelly did.

Or, as long as they’ve declared for the previous draft, they have the chance to signed during the SSP.

wait so if they get bid on after our second round pick we just miss out on them? And if we match one if he gets bid on before our pick, we miss out on the second player if he gets bid on after that?

Geez, settle down.
Maybe come up with a solution yourself then?

If you have a NGA or F/S talent available then you would do what you would normally do to an extent. You would try load up on later 2nd rounders in case someone bids.
Obviously that means leaving list spots fornthe NGA/FS you think might go off the board.

If you use all your picks and someone bids for one of you nominated players, one thing they could do is you can match it and the defecit will come off your 2021 picks from the 3rd round or later. That way you can trade back in 2021 to get more picks if you have NGa talent then.

If you use all your picks and fill up all your list spots, and someone bids on your player then you lose them.... just like every other year.

If you dont draft them and no one picks them up, you can rookie them (if the rookie list exists) or they hold over to next year and you can nominate again.

See, that wasnt so hard was it? So maybe just calm down.
Plenty of clubs will be in that position, not just port.

not sure why you’re getting upset at me for raising issues that weren’t covered in your suggestion.

you posted a basic idea. I asked questions. It’s hardly a terrifying concept.

as for your reply... who is trading second round draft picks in a 2 round draft? If someone gets bid on with pick 35 how is a team meant to trade into one of the 2-3 last picks left to match?

there would be a solution I guess, but there doesn’t appear to be a simple answer like people pretend there is. One way or another someone is likely to get screwed.

What are you suggesting I get a solution to? The problems created by your suggestions?

 

[eDPS]

Another idea to implement for the 2021 draft

If the AFL lift the draft age, clubs nominate 3 bottom age players from each of Vic Country, Vic Metro, SA, WA and Allies. Those players then enter the draft pool for that year which should help give those readymade kids the chance to impact AFL early.

When they can be nominated could be in a range of ways, either at the start of the year or after the national championships.

 

[briztoon]

wait so if they get bid on after our second round pick we just miss out on them? And if we match one if he gets bid on before our pick, we miss out on the second player if he gets bid on after that?

Not if you have the list spot for them. You can always use later, or future picks to match the bids, as long as you have the list spots for them.

If you draft other kids with those second round picks, then you’re conceding you’re willing to lose your nga or fs kids.

I don’t see the problem here.

We (Brisbane) saw two of our academy kids go to Richmond in last years draft.

We’ve seen another go to North as well in a
previous draft.

And we still had a later pick and list spot on both occasions, and chose to pass on matching, and drafted a kid from interstate both times.

You know what. They’re on a list in the AFL.

Or you can just draft them with those second round picks. Again, we have drafted our own academy kids with our own picks, without another club bidding on them.

It’s like you don’t know how the draft works.

 

[philthy05]

Not if you have the list spot for them. You can always use later, or future picks to match the bids, as long as you have the list spots for them.

If you draft other kids with those second round picks, then you’re conceding you’re willing to lose your nga or fs kids.

I don’t see the problem here.

We (Brisbane) saw two of our academy kids go to Richmond in last years draft.

We’ve seen another go to North as well in a
previous draft.

And we still had a later pick and list spot on both occasions, and chose to pass on matching, and drafted a kid from interstate both times.

You know what. They’re on a list in the AFL.

Or you can just draft them with those second round picks. Again, we have drafted our own academy kids with our own picks, without another club bidding on them.

It’s like you don’t know how the draft works.

there is no “later” picks in a 2 round draft right?

as for Brisbane letting players go to Richmond.. you let them go because you didn’t want to match the bids, not because the half of the draft didn’t exist to match those bids.

 

[briztoon]

there is no “later” picks in a 2 round draft right?

as for Brisbane letting players go to Richmond.. you let them go because you didn’t want to match the bids, not because the half of the draft didn’t exist to match those bids.

We’re in exactly the same situation as Port this draft. We’ve got three academy kids that are likely late second round or later picks.

And we have two first round picks, and then late 3rd and 4th round picks.

Clubs will have to make a decision if they’re willing to lose such kids.

Or hope they make it through the draft this year and get a second chance at next years draft.

I swear, the way you’re carrying on, it’s like one of those kids is yours.

 

[TheGrizz]

wait so if they get bid on after our second round pick we just miss out on them? And if we match one if he gets bid on before our pick, we miss out on the second player if he gets bid on after that?




not sure why you’re getting upset at me for raising issues that weren’t covered in your suggestion.

you posted a basic idea. I asked questions. It’s hardly a terrifying concept.

as for your reply... who is trading second round draft picks in a 2 round draft? If someone gets bid on with pick 35 how is a team meant to trade into one of the 2-3 last picks left to match?

there would be a solution I guess, but there doesn’t appear to be a simple answer like people pretend there is. One way or another someone is likely to get screwed.

What are you suggesting I get a solution to? The problems created by your suggestions?

Who will trade a second round pick in a two round draft?
Teams with multiple first rounders. I.e Adelaide, North Melbourne, Geelong (have three!). My suggestion was on the premise that list spots would be culled, so maybe they are willing to trade their current 2nd for a 2021 second and change as they have two first rounders for example

What if someone matches late in the 2nd round? If you read my response, you would have seen i have answered that. If you have a list spot spare you can match with your 2021 3rd for example if that is enough points. That way you arent disadvantaged by docking your future 1 or 2 pick which you wouldnt have to if it was a full draft.
If you dont have a list spot, then you lose the player. If you really want the guy and no one has bid by your last pick, take him yourself a-la Jack Bowes or like you would have Jackson Mead if he wasnt bid on last year

Of course its not perfect, nor completely simple but the framework of it can be straight forward with minutiae to be sorted.

 

[philthy05]

We’re in exactly the same situation as Port this draft. We’ve got three academy kids that are likely late second round or later picks.

And we have two first round picks, and then late 3rd and 4th round picks.

Clubs will have to make a decision if they’re willing to lose such kids.

Or hope they make it through the draft this year and get a second chance at next years draft.

I swear, the way you’re carrying on, it’s like one of those kids is yours.

Me carrying on? People are getting upset that I raise issues with their proposals. I’ve simply pointed out where problems would arise. Why are people being so precious that their ideas can’t be questioned?

 

[philthy05]

Who will trade a second round pick in a two round draft?
Teams with multiple first rounders. I.e Adelaide, North Melbourne, Geelong (have three!). My suggestion was on the premise that list spots would be culled, so maybe they are willing to trade their current 2nd for a 2021 second and change as they have two first rounders for example

What if someone matches late in the 2nd round? If you read my response, you would have seen i have answered that. If you have a list spot spare you can match with your 2021 3rd for example if that is enough points. That way you arent disadvantaged by docking your future 1 or 2 pick which you wouldnt have to if it was a full draft.
If you dont have a list spot, then you lose the player. If you really want the guy and no one has bid by your last pick, take him yourself a-la Jack Bowes or like you would have Jackson Mead if he wasnt bid on last year

Of course its not perfect, nor completely simple but the framework of it can be straight forward with minutiae to be sorted.

this cluster**** of trying to find not quite perfect workarounds and imperfect scenarios all to achieve something that could just be achieved by cutting the total salary cap by a percentage rather than cutting list numbers, shortening the draft, doing away with half the draft picks, making ngas, f/s hard, complicating trades etc.

If your goal is to save clubs money this is a backwards and complicated way to go about it. Whatever the complications are in just reducing salary caps by X amount and going ahead with draft as normal I can’t see it being as bad as these.

 

[briztoon]

Me carrying on? People are getting upset that I raise issues with their proposals. I’ve simply pointed out where problems would arise. Why are people being so precious that their ideas can’t be questioned?

Go back and read your first post yesterday where you insult people who have a different view, before you launch in to all the “problems”

And you are carrying on about; “What about Port and their academy kids, and second round picks....”.

It’s pretty easy to work out different scenarios.

It’s how your posts come across. First post insulting and aggressive, and then the others keep going.

Most people here are against raising the draft age. But instead of carrying on, their willing to offer different ways it might look, discuss how future drafts might look, etc.

It’s not like anyone here actually has any say on what the AFL might do. So instead of arguing against it, look at possible impacts, how things might look, how clubs might take advantage of different scenarios, etc.

If you want to discuss Ports situation, if it’s just a two round draft, more than happy to.

 

[andleanback]

there is no “later” picks in a 2 round draft right?

as for Brisbane letting players go to Richmond.. you let them go because you didn’t want to match the bids, not because the half of the draft didn’t exist to match those bids.

It won’t be a 2 round draft. It’ll most likely be a 2 pick minimum draft, if clubs want to take more that’s their choice, just means they will need to cut more players.

 

[briztoon]

There’s a bucketload of unanswered questions that these pro-raising the draft age campaigners never answer.

You set the tone of people’s responses to you right there.

There just wasn’t any need to use such language. Doesn’t matter that it’s pretty tame in terms of the actual language.

 

[philthy05]

Go back and read your first post yesterday where you insult people who have a different view, before you launch in to all the “problems”

And you are carrying on about; “What about Port and their academy kids, and second round picks....”.

It’s pretty easy to work out different scenarios.

It’s how your posts come across. First post insulting and aggressive, and then the others keep going.

Most people here are against raising the draft age. But instead of carrying on, their willing to offer different ways it might look, discuss how future drafts might look, etc.

It’s not like anyone here actually has any say on what the AFL might do. So instead of arguing against it, look at possible impacts, how things might look, how clubs might take advantage of different scenarios, etc.

If you want to discuss Ports situation, if it’s just a two round draft, more than happy to.

where did I insult people?

There’s a bucketload of unanswered questions that these pro-raising the draft age campaigners never answer.

You do realise I’ve used campaigner in the context of campaigning that these people are doing yeah?
That’s the reason you’ve gone at me for questioning these ideas the last two days?

 

[philthy05]

Hahaha **** me. Look at the context.

 

[briztoon]

where did I insult people?




You do realise I’ve used campaigner in the context of campaigning that these people are doing yeah?
That’s the reason you’ve gone at me for questioning these ideas the last two days?

My bad. Just my previous interactions with you, that’s how you come across.

 

[philthy05]

My bad. Just my previous interactions with you, that’s how you come across.

previous interactions?

carn.

you’ve misread one of my posts, gone at me for two days over it, and now it’s my fault because of some past discussion we’ve had?

why even the mock apology with “my bad” to then claim it’s my fault in the next sentence?

 

[philthy05]

It won’t be a 2 round draft. It’ll most likely be a 2 pick minimum draft, if clubs want to take more that’s their choice, just means they will need to cut more players.

the guy I was replying to very specifically said his suggestion was a 2 round draft.

 

[briztoon]

previous interactions?

carn.

you’ve misread one of my posts, gone at me for two days over it, and now it’s my fault because of some past discussion we’ve had?

why even the mock apology with “my bad” to then claim it’s my fault in the next sentence?

Yep, on the Port board, in your draft thread.

My first reply was to you today. I didn’t reply to you yesterday, just sat back and read the to and fro.

 

[philthy05]

Yep, on the Port board, in your draft thread.

My first reply was to you today. I didn’t reply to you yesterday, just sat back and read the to and fro.

lol. That’s right.
You asked a question on our board regarding a shortened draft and port trading (our 2021 1st) with Brisbane to get a first rounder back. Anyway I’m guessing no one else cares about this so we shouldn’t bore them but if this post is so offensive to you feel free to report it to the mods

I wouldn’t have any idea what the club would do.

What’s the point of a shortened draft? It would just handicap certain teams and achieve fu** all.

And if it’s shortened why would we have to trade up? What’s happened to our bevy of mid draft picks?


Also if port wants to trade up in a normal draft, Swans, dogs and pies all have highly rated nga players and 1st round picks they would see as expendable.

Port also doesn’t need to trade out a future pick unless they want to. They’ve got 3 2nd rounders and 2 3rd rounders from memory. We will have more picks if wines asks to be traded.

We’ve got more than enough picks in this draft to trade up. If port trades out of next years it would be strategic, rather than necessary.

With our loot of picks we will likely be the first phone call all the teams with highly rated academy players are going to call first.

There’s no reason we need to specifically knock on Brisbane’s door for our old pick back.

It wouldn’t surprise me if once the dust settles and port knows where bids could come for our nga guys that we funnel our picks into a couple of higher picks and bunch of points at the back end instead of the tonne of mid draft picks. They’ve been very strategic about draft positioning in the past.

I think the worst thing you can level at me is I’m abrupt.

 

[briztoon]

lol. That’s right.
You asked a question on our board regarding a shortened draft and port trading (our 2021 1st) with Brisbane to get a first rounder back. Anyway I’m guessing no one else cares about this so we shouldn’t bore them but if this post is so offensive to you feel free to report it to the mods




I think the worst thing you can level at me is I’m abrupt.

Replying to your reply from the Port board you included above.

If the draft is changed, shortened to two rounds or minimum of two picks, I don’t believe it will be easy to trade up or trade for equal value future picks.

Geelong, Gold Coast and Adelaide have better combinations of late first, and/or second round picks to use to trade up.

Potentially Bulldogs and Collingwood would be the two teams looking to trade back for points.

Sydney might trade their second round pick and a future second round pick for your first two second round picks in this years draft.

That might be a good offer, because early second round picks next year will probably hold more value, as next years should be stronger and deeper.

Provided the AFL dont try and lift the draft age to 19 next year, there by splitting this draft over two years.

It’s unfortunate, but if the AFL make some of the changes the media have speculated on, a lot of teams draft plans will go out the window.

 

[Giant Strides]

I am of the view that there's no real need to make massive changes to the conduct of the draft. (Which won't stop the AFL doing so, of course!) There's no real value IMHO of only having a '2 round draft' - the point would be to reduce the number of mandatory draft picks that each club is required to take. Then, like any year, that doesn't stop clubs that want to cull more players and make more draft selections. So if Port or Brisbane want to cull enough players to make 5 selections including F/S, academcy & NGA kids, why should that be restricted. Geelong obviously with 3 first round picks this year are going to cull enough to take advantage of that circumstance.

The interference with normal draft processes will come if there is indeed a reduction in list numbers - but logically that should be accompanied by a reduction in the mandatory national draft selections. If, for example, lists were reduced to 35 in toto (which I fervantly hope doesn't occur), then asking for clubs to make 3 draft selections means a really heavy cull of players (in some cases, 44 players off the main + rookie list down to 32) and really isn't fair to existing players.

If some reduction is requried, then it should be graduated - even if it requires multiple reductions over several years. At least then this year's out of contract players don't suffer the main impact (and paying out players in contract would be stupid & counter-productive if cost-savings is the goal). An example would be to reduce the 40 + 4A + 3B (total 47) to perhaps 42 + 3B (wipe out A cat rookies & merge with the main list) but only require 2 mandatory national draft picks. There would be a salary cap reduction too. Rookie lists turn over a little more regularly so you wouldn't expect too much of a impact with a graduated change.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Geelong for example would be fine to use all 3 first round picks.

And they'd be throwing the value of those picks down the drain in the process. How many highly touted picks ended up going backwards in their draft year, or the other way? Sam De Koning probably not draftable are his underage height goes first round 12 months later. Cam Taheny, touted as a top 20 gets picked up in 50s. Mitch O'Neil rookied rather than top 10.

If you're pushing the later picks, then push all of them and be consistent

 

[andleanback]

And they'd be throwing the value of those picks down the drain in the process. How many highly touted picks ended up going backwards in their draft year, or the other way? Sam De Koning probably not draftable are his underage height goes first round 12 months later. Cam Taheny, touted as a top 20 gets picked up in 50s. Mitch O'Neil rookied rather than top 10.

If you're pushing the later picks, then push all of them and be consistent

The u18s will play football this year. Maybe not national champs, but if that’s the case I can’t definitely see metro vs country games happening 2 or 3 times.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The u18s will play football this year. Maybe not national champs, but if that’s the case I can’t definitely see metro vs country games happening 2 or 3 times.

I'd hope I'm wrong but it does look pretty canceled from where I sit. Also, are these the only games the kids will play in the year? One or two scratch matches is hardly going to provide a reliable formline and that's our best case scenario.

I think the best scenario is list to postpone to 2021. If everyone is in two minds about the draft age there's no better way to test outcomes than having a draft of mixed ages. See which group has the better early career. Even if you don't want to change the draft age it's hard to argue with collecting better data.

 

[Nutjob]

It won’t be a 2 round draft. It’ll most likely be a 2 pick minimum draft, if clubs want to take more that’s their choice, just means they will need to cut more players.

I completely agree with you on this. I think it will be up to the club to cut list spots depending how many kids they want to draft.
From a North point of view looking at our list, I can see a good half a dozen that I would be happy to see moved on. Therefore I would like to see us use our 2 first round picks, plus our second round pick and add 3 players to the list.
A club like GWS who have a huge amount of talent and will most likely finish near the top, may only want to bring in a couple of kids.
It should be completely up to the club on the amount of draftees they bring in.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app