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Cotchin vs Rich vs Scully vs Swallow
- Thread starter beatlesmith
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Eastern Rangers
2015 Worsfold Medalist - Rowen Powell
Dream on buddy, you wish he was available for your second round picks.
Swift is a relative unknown in the general football community and what he is capable of producing at AFL is less certain than other players, the point you dont get is that he has missed two years of football development and coming into 2009 had zero touch, so in the end what he has produced has been outstanding considering where he has come from.
He's explosive, clean, smart, duel footed and looks to hit with consistency across the field, he is rated by Westcoast fans and we have high hopes for him.
He is certainly better than Palmer in terms of athletic ability, football smarts and skills, he averaged over 21 disposals at WAFL level in his first season of senior football and then came into AFL and produced strong performances as he was moved into the middle, his potential if he remains uninjured is unquestionable.
Like i said, Swifts 2009 was outstanding and we certainly look forward to him showing his full potential over the coming seasons, he could very well be the best midfielder from the 08 draft.
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that's great man. I would be happy with Swift progress too, but let's be honest, he has a long way to go, particularly in regards to skill excecution under pressure. Comparing him to Cotchin, Rich, Selwood etc is just fanboyish
And I don't know what Palmer has got do do with this, he wasn't even on Prem's list
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It's just a pity Masten isn't - considering he's the one you actually passed up Palmer for.
True, but that's only because of injury. Every time he's stepped on to the field he's performed at a high level
He's shown as much as Rich IMO. Get yourself a copy of the Tiges against Carlton and Essendon this year. Probably the closest he's been to fully fit, and he was awesome. I understand it is hard to rate Cotchin though, he plays limited gametime and has trouble running hard from stoppages/contests. Hopefully we will get to see him fully fit in 2010.
Uh huh, I see what you're saying. Injuries can stuff players around big time. Masten wasn't fit at all last year and it wasn't until mid-way through this season that he was really past his OP problems.
I really like Cotchin, moves smoothly and uses the ball well. Haven't seen heaps of him but when he's around the contests seems a natural. Hopefully he gets over his injury problems.
Perhaps Swift could be granted the same courtesy pinkus? Played virtually no football in the last two years and wasn't really expected to play AFL at all this year. Ends the season with a 26 touch 10 tackle BOG performance. After being rated by Voss the best 16 year old in the country he seems to be fully fit and used to the tempo of AFL footy. Surely you can understand why Eagles fans are excited about him? He's out best young prospect by a fair margin in my opinion.
without injury id take cotchin, otherwise id go swallow.
Eastern Rangers
2015 Worsfold Medalist - Rowen Powell
Mabey you missed out on the missed two years of football development. Anyhow your totally wrong, Swifts skill execution has been excellent under pressure, it's been his decision making when he's kicking over the mark and under zero pressure that was his issue for the first four AFL games. Since moving on ball he has thrived and thats the point, Swift is best at creating oppotunities within packs that simply dont exist for other players, he just gets away with the near impossible inside packs.
He has issues within his game, he racks up big numbers across the ground but he needs to put himself in more damaging positions and improve his second efforts, he looks a touch selective at times. Swifts outside finnishing skills do need to improve, if you wanted a player going inside 50 you would take one of Selwood, Cotchin and Rich over him without a doubt, intresting but unrelated fact D.Rich had just one more Goal assist than Chris Masten in 09.
Swift is more of a Daniel Kerr hard ball winner than a flashy outside finnisher, it's his work with the contested ball that makes him great. Now im not going to compare him to Selwood who has clear runs on the board and is a complete inside and outside midfielder.
- Needs to improve the hurt factor in his disposal by foot, he is pretty effective however. (especially when he's not under pressure).
- Needs to put himself in more damaging positions across the ground.
- Needs to be a little less flat footed at the stoppages and look to run forward more often (often wins the ball and then runs to position rather than remaining active within a play).
- Show us his marking prowess.
Asking what i would reasonably expect from Swift in 2010 is for him to play 22 games at AFL without major injury, gather over 20 disposals a game. I would however not be suprised if his output was greater than Cotchin's, Rich's and Palmer's in 2010.
Die Hard Eagle
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TOM SWIFT is going to be the best midfielder in afl like judd at a very young age if only he stays injury free ( how many players have in the past or near future have achieved top 10 status at tee exams in the whole country at the same time being described as the best 16 year old afl player in the country( like swallow at present), some saying he could become the prime minister!) it is his mentality, culture, work ethic and pure natural talent that have us west coast supporters counting days to next season to see him play.
However my order of best midfielders would be:
1. TOM SWIFT - 2008 ahead of daniel rich
2. DAVID SWALLOW - 2010
3. JACK TRENGOVE - 2009 prefer him ahead of tom scully
4. TRENT COTCHIN - 2007 would have had him at 3 if not for infuries
However my order of best midfielders would be:
1. TOM SWIFT - 2008 ahead of daniel rich
2. DAVID SWALLOW - 2010
3. JACK TRENGOVE - 2009 prefer him ahead of tom scully
4. TRENT COTCHIN - 2007 would have had him at 3 if not for infuries
Lotta love for Swift from WCE fans in this thread. Hope you don't hype him too much and put undue expectation on him. IIRC you selected another midfielder in Luke Shuey ahead of him in the 2008 draft. How's Luke going.
Brilliantly thanks for asking... coaches and senior players regularly quoted this year as saying he is definitely going to be top shelf. If your query is a subtle dig then check your facts before posting... WCE offerred for him to return home for the rest of the season after his sister was killed in an accident this year and he was on the long term injury list. He declined and impressed the club with his recovery work. Preseason he was the pick of the bunch to start round 1 before his injuries. Many on BF rate him ahead of Masten and Swift on potential shown so far.
Well they are not exactly going to come out and say he will be ordinary...
I know that Swallow and Scully are elite junior talents, but no one can give an informed rating of how they'l be in the AFL as yet. No one.
Until they play an AFL game it's impossible to see how they'l go. Just because they were the best at junior level doesn't mean they'l be the best in the AFL.
Cotchin and Rich have atleast both shown something at AFL level. Rich obviously more due to the fact he's played fit for a season.
I think that many people who haven't seen that much of Swallow and Scully just rate them highly because of the hype. Sure there are a few who would have watched them play regularly, but not everyone can or wants to watch junior footy.
I'll be honest I've seen nothing more than youtube highlights of those players, and they look good, however not every junior talent goes onto become an elite AFL player. If that were the case then every top 4 pick of the last 10 years should be a gun, likewise every top 10 pick should atleast be a very good player, and there are many that are not.
I'm not saying Swallow and Scully won't be good, they may be the best 2 to ever play for all we know, but they cannot be rated yet.
With Cotchin vs whoever it's the same old story, providing Cotch can get fit I think he has more potential than most, and will be very hard to beat. Otherwise, it's really a lottery between many of the talented young mids including guys like Selwood, Ziebell, Hill, Hartlett, even Higgins etc. Any one of them could be the best of the lot.
People will be bias and vote for the player of their club, and I am bias too, however still without a preseason yet I've seen Cotchin influence games and do things in traffic that I've never seen a 19 year old do before.
Until they play an AFL game it's impossible to see how they'l go. Just because they were the best at junior level doesn't mean they'l be the best in the AFL.
Cotchin and Rich have atleast both shown something at AFL level. Rich obviously more due to the fact he's played fit for a season.
I think that many people who haven't seen that much of Swallow and Scully just rate them highly because of the hype. Sure there are a few who would have watched them play regularly, but not everyone can or wants to watch junior footy.
I'll be honest I've seen nothing more than youtube highlights of those players, and they look good, however not every junior talent goes onto become an elite AFL player. If that were the case then every top 4 pick of the last 10 years should be a gun, likewise every top 10 pick should atleast be a very good player, and there are many that are not.
I'm not saying Swallow and Scully won't be good, they may be the best 2 to ever play for all we know, but they cannot be rated yet.
With Cotchin vs whoever it's the same old story, providing Cotch can get fit I think he has more potential than most, and will be very hard to beat. Otherwise, it's really a lottery between many of the talented young mids including guys like Selwood, Ziebell, Hill, Hartlett, even Higgins etc. Any one of them could be the best of the lot.
People will be bias and vote for the player of their club, and I am bias too, however still without a preseason yet I've seen Cotchin influence games and do things in traffic that I've never seen a 19 year old do before.
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halfman_halfroo
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this thread went south quickly....
for all those putting swift/palmer/selwood ect into this thread, please kindly take this rubbish into another thread...
if you dont believe me read the thread title...i dont believe anyone of the aforementioned players names are in that same title.
now to get down to the meat of the thread.
I would go
1)Swallow
2)Rich
3)Cotchin
4)Scully
Swallow is a pure mid, he is actually 188cm at last count and weighs in at 87 Kilo....his body is afl ready, he is an instinct player and his skills overall, out of these three are the best. He is quick, can mark, tackles hard, runs hard...he was the best player at the 18's carnival at 16 (i believe one of the other players in this poll was also in this carnival and didnt win the larke). He is ready to play and yet has still go so much improvement left its scary. Plays with instinct/smarts and flair. he is oundoubtably the most promising player in the last 10 draft years. (i exclude darling cause he is an undersized forward, not as quck as swallow and they are almost the same sized, darling while a a good kick at goal is one dimensional)
Rich is dominant, not an instinct player like swallow, but given space his obvious weapon of choice rarely fails to hit a target from 60...but has been shown to go missing with a tag, he also dosnt have the running, marking and inside play of swallow.
Cotchin, freak, could go either way with this kid, shows a bit of everything from time to time...but so does daniel wells...and we all know were that can get us. If he pulls it all together though he can be elite...
scully, the most overrated consensus 1# IMO. Can run hard, can carry...probably benefits from the fact he was the fittest youngster going around, but dosnt have the skills, nor the raw instincts or footy brains of the others. I think his being picked by number 1 will lead to melbourne taking 2 duds with their first 2 picks, the last two years.
please keep the thread on topic you guys, if you wanna start a new thread do it. if not piss off.
for all those putting swift/palmer/selwood ect into this thread, please kindly take this rubbish into another thread...
if you dont believe me read the thread title...i dont believe anyone of the aforementioned players names are in that same title.
now to get down to the meat of the thread.
I would go
1)Swallow
2)Rich
3)Cotchin
4)Scully
Swallow is a pure mid, he is actually 188cm at last count and weighs in at 87 Kilo....his body is afl ready, he is an instinct player and his skills overall, out of these three are the best. He is quick, can mark, tackles hard, runs hard...he was the best player at the 18's carnival at 16 (i believe one of the other players in this poll was also in this carnival and didnt win the larke). He is ready to play and yet has still go so much improvement left its scary. Plays with instinct/smarts and flair. he is oundoubtably the most promising player in the last 10 draft years. (i exclude darling cause he is an undersized forward, not as quck as swallow and they are almost the same sized, darling while a a good kick at goal is one dimensional)
Rich is dominant, not an instinct player like swallow, but given space his obvious weapon of choice rarely fails to hit a target from 60...but has been shown to go missing with a tag, he also dosnt have the running, marking and inside play of swallow.
Cotchin, freak, could go either way with this kid, shows a bit of everything from time to time...but so does daniel wells...and we all know were that can get us. If he pulls it all together though he can be elite...
scully, the most overrated consensus 1# IMO. Can run hard, can carry...probably benefits from the fact he was the fittest youngster going around, but dosnt have the skills, nor the raw instincts or footy brains of the others. I think his being picked by number 1 will lead to melbourne taking 2 duds with their first 2 picks, the last two years.
please keep the thread on topic you guys, if you wanna start a new thread do it. if not piss off.
Scully and Swallow have potentially elite 'inside' ability, ball winning frequency and work rate/running capacities, whilst having good to very good finishing skills (if there's one thing Swallow needs to work on, it would be to tidy up his kicking) - I think they would form an excellent foundation for a team that is lacking in quality young midfielders.
Cotchin and Rich have elite finishing skills (Rich would have the highest hurt factor of them all), whilst having good to very good inside ability - I think they are best suited to a team that already has depth in quality young midfielders and have the ability to take that midfield to a whole new level.
For WCE - all of them would add something as they are all very high quality young players with elite potential - I would think Rich or Cotchin would fit best, given we have formed a strong core of young midfielders (Swift, Naitanui, Masten, Ebert, Shuey, S.Selwood), but lack a player with elite finishing skills. I would lean towards Rich given he already has some 'football chemistry' with some of our players from WA U16s 2006, WA U18s 2007/2008 and Subiaco days (i.e. Naitanui, Masten, Swift, McGinnity, Cockie, Notte).
Cotchin and Rich have elite finishing skills (Rich would have the highest hurt factor of them all), whilst having good to very good inside ability - I think they are best suited to a team that already has depth in quality young midfielders and have the ability to take that midfield to a whole new level.
For WCE - all of them would add something as they are all very high quality young players with elite potential - I would think Rich or Cotchin would fit best, given we have formed a strong core of young midfielders (Swift, Naitanui, Masten, Ebert, Shuey, S.Selwood), but lack a player with elite finishing skills. I would lean towards Rich given he already has some 'football chemistry' with some of our players from WA U16s 2006, WA U18s 2007/2008 and Subiaco days (i.e. Naitanui, Masten, Swift, McGinnity, Cockie, Notte).
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