cox plate field

[rumply]

5- CARLTON DRAUGHT COX PLATE 2040 M
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight
1 LONHRO John Hawkes D Beadman 7 58
2 DEFIER Guy Walter P Payne 8 58
3 FIELDS OF OMAGH Tony McEvoy Steven King 6 58
4 CLANGALANG Gerald Ryan C Brown 5 56.5
5 NATURAL BLITZ Doug Harrison K McEvoy 2 56.5
6 PARACA (ARG) Andrew Balding N Rawiller 4 54
7 SHOWER OF ROSES (NZ) Gai Waterhouse C Munce 3 54
8 ZAGALIA (NZ) Clarry Conners 1 54
X ELVSTROEM C Williams 48.5



very disappointing field, the only positive being a 1/2 decent price about clangalang to knock off god boy's nag.

 

[harry_hawka]

Go the Big L!

If Lonhro doesn't win it'll be a sad day for racing. This Cox Plate is a gift to the greatest horse in Australian racing at the moment, I hope he accepts it with open arms.

This is one of the first times I've been content to 100% WATCH a race and not have a punt on it at all. I will be very very happy if I don't make a cent the whole day, as long as the champ wins.

 

[Catman]

He will only be a champion if he wins and even then it will be against a 2nd rate Cox Plate.

You can't be classified as a champion winning the cheap, 2nd string Group 1's in Sydney while being beaten easily in the big G1's (Last years Cox Plate and this years Doncaster).

He might have won 22 of his 29 starts but how many of them have been against the elite? Look at his wins and the B-grade opposition he has beaten in many of them.

The Hawkes' camp haven't helped themselves by stating that Northerly wasn't a champion while Lonhro was. They also refused to meet Northerly in the Australian Cup and when he was in Sydney because they knew Lonhro couldn't beat him.

He is a great horse but the Champion tag needs to be earned and I don't believe he has earned it.

 

[rumply]

my feeling exactly catman, cant get out of my head the shocker he ran at mv last year.

he's seems a better horse now, but to date he has only proved he's a sydney champ, so the 5/1 abt clangalang is sort of tempting...

 

[ImCheatingToWin]

before the Northerly Lohnro war starts yeah he is a champion but isn't as good as Northerly insaying that he isn't as good as Sunline, who in return wasn't as good as might and power IMO

Lohnro should win and win easilly,


For the life of me i cant understand why they would be starting Zagalia in the race, recent history shows that horses that run in the Caulfield cip then the Cox plate just dont come up again for the Melbourne cup. It seems to take too much out of them, i think its too much of a risk run her in the the race on derby day same distance far far easy race.

The last horse that has done anything of note coming off the cox plate going into the Melbourne cup was Saintly i am pretty sure and he was an absolute champion.

My pocket talking but i just dont think its worth the risk flattening her for the cup

 

[MoffOnTou]

get on clangalang. anyone who takes the $1.70 on lonhro needs a head reading

Facts:

- Lonhro didnt handle MV last year
- 2040 is not Lonhro's pet distance
- 2040 is about Clangalang pet distance
- It might be wet, suited to Clangalang
- There will be pace, negative against Lonhro who has won sit and sprint races lately
- Clangalang has run a quicker last 600m then Lonhro


Basically, all the sentimental money is on Lonhro. When you face the facts, Clangalang is a great chance. Not saying he will win, but **** the $6 is overs!

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[ImCheatingToWin]

Just looked at the field again this has to be one of the weakest Cox Plate fields in many many years

 

[Deej]

Anyone says Lohnro is a better horse than Northerly dead set is on drugs. Either that or they're resentful Sunline fans ****ed off that Northerly spanked her 3 from 3, and they're looking for something to chirp about now that he's gone.

I'm no chance of going to this Cox Plate, first I'll miss in years, $50 for a Australian Cup standard field is too much to pay. Nothing will beat last year's race, probably the best race I've seen in a decade. Actually if anyone can get me a free ticket I'll go, and I'll go pot Lohnro, & get pist.

 

[sethlad]

With the rain forecast I reckon there might be good support for Clangalang. Not sure $6 will be available.He's a much better horse than I thought he was.
But this is WFA. How could he win a Cox Plate on the prep he's had???? Just shows the quality if he's clearly 2nd fave.

Honestly,Lonhro looks a moral.It's not as though there's a genuine quality pacemaker,Shower Of Roses,it will collapse.

At the most he'll be 5 lengths off them when they sprint.
I'm no great fan of his but this is a benefit.

Seth.

 

[harry_hawka]

Originally posted by Catman
He will only be a champion if he wins and even then it will be against a 2nd rate Cox Plate.

You can't be classified as a champion winning the cheap, 2nd string Group 1's in Sydney while being beaten easily in the big G1's (Last years Cox Plate and this years Doncaster).

He might have won 22 of his 29 starts but how many of them have been against the elite? Look at his wins and the B-grade opposition he has beaten in many of them.

The Hawkes' camp haven't helped themselves by stating that Northerly wasn't a champion while Lonhro was. They also refused to meet Northerly in the Australian Cup and when he was in Sydney because they knew Lonhro couldn't beat him.

He is a great horse but the Champion tag needs to be earned and I don't believe he has earned it.

Just wanted to clarify my stance on this too. The word "Champion" is the most contentious word in racing I reckon. You can throw it out there left, right and centre in any other sport and no one will think twice, but in racing it is always the start of a lengthy debate.

Lonhro is not a champion (yet), and he is not a better horse than Northerly (yet). I still can't see any logic in anyone even arguing that Lonhro is better than Northerly, their records simply speak for themselves. However, people get caught up in the potential of Lonhro, as chances are he may end up better than Northerly.

I didn't mean to start this debate by saying "as long as the champ wins". When I say "champ", I meant star, li'l ripper, good thing etc, but not "Champion".

This Cox Plate is very very weak, there's no doubting that. However I'm hoping it's the start of a string of Cox Plate's for Lonhro, and the start of what is to be a real "Champion's" career.

 

[Deej]

If Lohnro wins on saturday it won't prove a thing. He's beating a b-grade cox plate field at best. For him to prove he's a champion he needs to go win the Japan Cup or something, if he retires never having run over any distance further than 2040 then I'll just put him in the Tiny's Finito category.

 

[JLC]

Lonhro hasnt been just winning he has been treating all opposition in Sydney and in Melbourne with contempt. If i recall last year many people were claiming Defier to be superior to Lonhro. Shame shame shame.

Lonhro has won 9 or 10 Group 1 races in a row and has beaten every challenger thrown at him. Lets not forget these same average fields Northerly was unable to beat in Sydney.


jlc

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by JLC
Lets not forget these same average fields Northerly was unable to beat in Sydney.


jlc

Are you serious? He never ran against those fields mate. Look I know it hurts but all you need to know is Northerly vs Defier Lohnro Sunline, 5-nil.

Defier drinks milk. Lohnro is a schoolyard bully. Sunline-champion, but they all polished the boots of the fighting tiger.

Deal with it.

 

[skipper kelly]

It is too hard to judge a horse as a champion whilest it is still racing. History usually dictates where they are rated. To sit back and assess a horse after seeing all its achievements and compare them to others is my way of rating them. The champion tag is bandied around loosely in all sports, but in Australian racing, I believe there has been 4 champions:

1. Phar Lap. For the obvious reasons.

2. Tulloch. Most who saw Tulloch and Phar Lap say Tulloch was better. I didn't, so this is hearsay.

3. Kingston Town. Could win at any distance, with any weight. Was on the wrong leg the Melbourne way, but still won 3 Cox Plates and should have won the Cup.

4. Sunline. Greatest mare to greet our turf. Crowd favourite who could win over any distance with any weight. We have all seen her so no other explanation required.

I was disappointed Northerly retired because he would have donkey licked Saturdays field and then I would have rated him with the above.

There has been many absolute great and freakish horses, but not Champions.

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by skipper kelly
4. Sunline. Greatest mare to greet our turf. Crowd favourite who could win over any distance with any weight.

She never ran at any distance past 2040, and when tried in world class company over anything beyond 1600 she was always found wanting.

Hong Kong 2000 - trounced.

Cox Plates with Northerly - beaten twice.

Dubai 1750 - beaten into third.

In fact I believe her only wins beyond 1600 were against inferior fields. The 2000 Cox Plate when she won by 7 was even worse than the field we see on saturday. So to say she could win over any distance with any weight i think is wrong. She was a champion sprinter/miler sure, but to say she was a champion middle distance galloper i think is getting a bit misty eyed and nostalgic.

 

[JLC]

Yeah the fields he ran against in Sydney were crap. Its the same standard if not worse than the fields Lonhro has been demolishing.

No doubt Northerly is a champion however one year i would have thought that Viscount was very unlucky not to win.

jlc

 

[JLC]

Please provide me of a comparison of Northerly v Lonhro as 3, 4 and 5 year olds as thats all we can really compare them on so far. We will get a more complete story when Lonhro has finished his career.

jlc

 

[Deej]

Lohnro and Sunline are a reasonable comparison, both sprinter/milers that stretched against inferior opposition can win at 2000. Don't include Northerly in any comparisons because he's a middle distance/staying horse, not a sprint/miler. All you need to know is over 2000 he had both their measures.

 

[skipper kelly]

Originally posted by Deej
She never ran at any distance past 2040, and when tried in world class company over anything beyond 1600 she was always found wanting.

Cox Plates not world class????? 2 wins, 1 second, 1 4th. Tell me of any other horse (not just a mare) but any other horse in history that has finished in the 1st 4 in the CP 4 years in a row. I didnt see her found wanting in these races. If she was no good beyond 1600 then what a Champion she was to win 2 CP.

Hong Kong 2000 - trounced..[/QUOTE]

Have to look this one up.

Cox Plates with Northerly - beaten twice..[/QUOTE]

One was on the decline, one was at his peak. But in further comments you have said that you cant compare them because one is a sprinter/miler and one is a middle distance staying horse. You cant have it both ways. And why have you chosen to compare them over Northerly's best distance, why not compare them over a handicap mile?

Dubai 1750 - beaten into third...[/QUOTE]

If this was the race where she finished 3rd behind Fairy King Prawn then you are mistaken. Her run was recognised as phenomenol by far better judges than I.

In fact I believe her only wins beyond 1600 were against inferior fields. The 2000 Cox Plate when she won by 7 was even worse than the field we see on saturday. .[/QUOTE]

For starters that is a very sad argument, anyway it is yet to be seen. But do Tie the Knot, Sky Heights, Testa Rossa and Redoutes Choice for starters, ring a bell. Are they comparable to this years field?

So to say she could win over any distance with any weight i think is wrong. She was a champion sprinter/miler sure, but to say she was a champion middle distance galloper i think is getting a bit misty eyed and nostalgic. [/QUOTE]

Maybe she couldnt win a Melbourne Cup, but we will never know. The simple fact is she was never trained to run any further than the Cox Plate distance. And literally speaking you are right. I doubt she would lug around my (110 kg), but look at her weight carrying records. I can get them for you if you like.

Her overall record is unsurpassed in Australian Racing History. Find me another filly/mare with her record and I will gladly promote it above her.

As for the misty eyed and nostalga crap, I never once said she was my favourite, but please tell me if you will, has there been a more popular horse than her in the last 25 years. Maybe I am forgetting one.

PS. I have a sneaking suspicion that you have had this before. Did you lose something on her. No, I reckon you backed Northerly to beat her and are still gloating.

 

[Pigskin]

Originally posted by sethlad
Honestly,Lonhro looks a moral.It's not as though there's a genuine quality pacemaker,Shower Of Roses,it will collapse.

Shower of Roses won't be leading, but might have to cart the field up to Paraca

Pigskin

 

[Pigskin]

Sunline = a champion mare

but no champion imho

but anyway gents, back to matters at hand

you can have your $1.50 Lonhro .... too short for mine whilest still lacking conviction at MV .... if he wins the Cox Plate, he still has work to do to equal Northerly and Sunline in my books

i can't believe i'm about to say this

but at this stage I'll be on Zagalia ... 1 unit win x 5 units place

i expect Paraca to go mad in front, Shower of Roses to drag the field up to her ..... whatever way I look at the race, i keep seeing Lonhro coming into it with either Fields of Omagh, Defier or Clangalang matching his moves .... and N Blitz and Zagalia having the last shot at them

a wet track will only help Clangalang and to a much lesser degree Zagalia

maybe i'll go hunting trifectas closer to the time - not sure, but in my mind Lonhro is no certainty

cheers

Oink!

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by skipper kelly
PS. I have a sneaking suspicion that you have had this before. Did you lose something on her. No, I reckon you backed Northerly to beat her and are still gloating.

When I came back from os in 2000 a mate of mine said Sunline was the best horse in the world. I thought, my god, how little he knows about os horses. Giant's Causeway would've eaten her alive over ANY distance.

Basically I don't like to hear people spruiking emotional over-hyped rubbish about the flavour of the month horse of the moment here in oz. I've probably seen 10 horses better than Lohnro race in this country in the last decade alone. It is so like Sunline fans to get all up in arms if anyone questions her champion status, such a defensive lot you all are. Me, yeh I was a big Northerly fan and yeh backed him to roll her good, 3 times, loved each one. Now we have to put up with people saying Lohnro's this/that best since kingston town etc, i mean fair dinkum what drugs are all these clowns on! We just saw the best since kingston town last year, how quickly some people forget. Or maybe it's just all the beligerant dirty sunline fans trying to jump on another bandwagon against the fighting tiger.

 

[sethlad]

Everyone seems to think Paraca is a certain tearaway leader.
How does anyone know this?

Is it because she leads in mile races? Apparently!
If they try & lead all the way 1st up,1st try at 2040 then you have to question why they bothered coming.

Not that we've actually seen video of it racing.

Why is it that in the year 2003,we dont have access to the tapes for a horse who we've known was coming here for the last 3 months?

Seth.

 

[skipper kelly]

Originally posted by Deej
When I came back from os in 2000 a mate of mine said Sunline was the best horse in the world. I thought, my god, how little he knows about os horses. Giant's Causeway would've eaten her alive over ANY distance.

Basically I don't like to hear people spruiking emotional over-hyped rubbish about the flavour of the month horse of the moment here in oz. I've probably seen 10 horses better than Lohnro race in this country in the last decade alone. It is so like Sunline fans to get all up in arms if anyone questions her champion status, such a defensive lot you all are. Me, yeh I was a big Northerly fan and yeh backed him to roll her good, 3 times, loved each one. Now we have to put up with people saying Lohnro's this/that best since kingston town etc, i mean fair dinkum what drugs are all these clowns on! We just saw the best since kingston town last year, how quickly some people forget. Or maybe it's just all the beligerant dirty sunline fans trying to jump on another bandwagon against the fighting tiger.

Sorry Deej. I thought you might know something about racing but it appears from this post that you are just another mug punter who knows very little. I dare to say you probably didnt even see Kingston Town.

Anyone that calls Australia OZ is either a kiwi or a pom and shouldn't be commenting on Australian Racing.

 

[harry_hawka]

(Please don't let the Punting Board turn into a personal attack board like the rest of Bigfooty!!)

This place is going very well at the moment, let's all keep it that way, no matter how hot the topic gets!!