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if anyone's interested...here's what needs to happen for sides to make the WTC


What India's Gabba win means for the Black Caps and the World Test Championship



ANALYSIS: Come on South Africa.
That’s what every Kiwi cricket fan must be thinking now the test series between Australia and India across the Tasman has come to a dramatic conclusion, with the visitors winning by three wickets at the Gabba to take the series 2-1.
As a result, the Black Caps have held on to the No 1 spot on the ICC world rankings and have moved from third to second in the World Test Championship (WTC) standings.


Australia were beaten by India at the Gabba, but the Black Caps now need them to lose at least once in South Africa.
To stay in the top two in the WTC and book their spot in the final in England in June, currently scheduled for Lord’s, they need two of the other three contenders – Australia, India, and England – to stay below them.


The simplest way for that to happen is if South Africa beats Australia at least once in their three-test series, which is scheduled to start at the end of February, but is yet to be officially locked in.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/authors/andrew-voerman
The good news is that Australia have lost at least once on each of their last four tours of South Africa – going down 3-1 in 2018, when the infamous ball-tampering incident took place; winning 2-1 in 2014; drawing 1-1 in 2011; and winning 2-1 in 2009.
The series before that in 2006 ended as a 3-0 win to the visitors, but that was the only time Australia have gone undefeated in their last 10 visits, so history is on the Black Caps’ side.
If South Africa and Australia were to draw two of their three tests – having only drawn once in South Africa in 24 meetings there since the Proteas’ readmission to test cricket in 1991 – that would also be enough, regardless of what happens elsewhere.


From Australia’s point of view, they are looking for a clean sweep or two wins and a draw to move back above the Black Caps.
If they can pull that off, the New Zealanders’ hopes will then lie with England, who are currently in Sri Lanka, but will travel to India to play a four-test series beginning on February 5.
India are in a position of relative comfort after their win in Brisbane – the first by a touring side at the Gabba since 1988 – and will stay ahead of the Black Caps if they beat England 4-0, 3-0, 3-1 or 2-0.

Kane Williamson and the Black Caps need South Africa – or England – to give them a helping hand over the next couple of months.
If pinning their hopes on a South African win doesn’t work out, the Black Caps will need England to win at least twice, to win once while also drawing at least once, or to force three draws.
England have won two tests in India on four occasions – most recently in 2012, then in 1984, 1976, and 1933 – so history is not so kind to Kane Williamson and co there.
Their last visit was in 2016, when they lost a five-match series 4-0; then there was a 2-1 win in a four-match series in 2012, a 1-0 loss in a two-match series in 2008, a 1-1 draw in a three-match series in 2006; and a 1-0 loss in 2001.
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If England were to win their remaining test in Sri Lanka and take that series 2-0, then go to India and win 4-0 or 3-0 – an extremely unlikely scenario – they would push India below the Black Caps, but move ahead themselves.
If that were to happen – and it’s a massive if – the Black Caps would need South Africa to come through.
The inaugural edition of the WTC started with the Ashes series in England in 2019 and will culminate in the next few months, with several series still to be officially scheduled due to the logistical challenges thrown up by the Covid-19 pandemic.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/women-in-sport
Those include the South Africa-Australia series, which Australia need to play to control their own destiny with regard to the final. Earlier this week a Cricket Australia spokesman told the Sydney Morning Herald:Suffice to say we are not there yet, but we want to go and we are working through things with them”. If it wasn’t to go ahead, the Black Caps would be assured of a place in the WTC final, regardless of what happens with England and India.
In the wake of the pandemic, the International Cricket Council announced last November that teams would be ranked according to the percentage of available points they had won, rather than their raw points totals, as some series were unable to be completed in time for the final to take place in June.
With a 2-0 win over the West Indies and a 2-0 win over Pakistan, the Black Caps finished their home summer having won 70 per cent of the points available of them. India have currently won 71.7 per cent of their available points, while Australia have won 69.2 per cent and England 65.2 per cent.
Simply put
To make the WTC final, the Black Caps need South Africa to win at least once or draw at least twice when they host Australia for three tests in February and March or England to win at least twice, win once and draw once, or draw at least three times when they visit India for four tests at the same time, but if England beat Sri Lanka in their second test, which starts later this week, then beat India 4-0 or 3-0, the Black Caps would need both scenarios to happen.
How things stand
1. India: 71.7 per cent of points won; four tests remaining at home v England
2. New Zealand: 70 per cent of points won; no tests remaining
3. Australia: 69.2 per cent of points won; three tests remaining away v South Africa
4. England: 65.2 per cent of points won; one test remaining away v Sri Lanka; four tests remaining away v India
The top two teams play in the final in England in June, currently scheduled for Lord’s.
 
He played his first Shield game batting at 10 and took a 5-for on debut. He is plenty good with the ball, you are 100% spot on that the captain failed him. Was never given a chance with a new, hard ball. Was never given a long spell to work into things. Was given an over or two here or there, and then pulled so Lyon and Starc could deliver a few more pies.

On the topic of a new, hard ball, can someone explain to me why our best bowler, in fact the best bowler in the world, doesn't get the new ball? We have to watch 2-3 overs of trash from Starc every innings before Cummins is brought on, and he usually grabs a wicket in his first over. Why are we wasting the first overs of the new ball? My suspicion is because Starc is crap and can't do anything without the assistance of a new ball, whereas Cummins is good regardless, so they're trying to optimise all the bowlers. If that is legitimately the case, dump Starc and bring in someone to bowl first change, so your gun #1 bowler in the world can actually be optimised. Ridiculous pandering to Starc.

Yep. Green will be a great 5th bowler over the journey. We need to remember that he is still recovering from stress fractures and if he was purely a bowler would not be back playing FC cricket yet as he is not up to the workloads. As you said only got overs against set batsmen when the ball was older and never against the tail.

When it comes to Starc it is a bit all or nothing. Surely we can be better at identifying when he is in or out of form and select accordingly.
 
I know it isn't a popular opinion but Green, for all the carry on is still yet to take a wicket. He took a while to make a few runs as well. Without those couple of scores he's on thin ice as well. He might be a decent talent but was he really ready for test cricket at this point in his development?

Needs 12 months and a couple of series away at minimum, plus he only bowled 24 First class overs this year before this game
Think others are more in the firing line
Edit: Also needs a swing coach to offer something else to the side
 
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if anyone's interested...here's what needs to happen for sides to make the WTC


What India's Gabba win means for the Black Caps and the World Test Championship



ANALYSIS: Come on South Africa.
That’s what every Kiwi cricket fan must be thinking now the test series between Australia and India across the Tasman has come to a dramatic conclusion, with the visitors winning by three wickets at the Gabba to take the series 2-1.
As a result, the Black Caps have held on to the No 1 spot on the ICC world rankings and have moved from third to second in the World Test Championship (WTC) standings.


Australia were beaten by India at the Gabba, but the Black Caps now need them to lose at least once in South Africa.
To stay in the top two in the WTC and book their spot in the final in England in June, currently scheduled for Lord’s, they need two of the other three contenders – Australia, India, and England – to stay below them.


The simplest way for that to happen is if South Africa beats Australia at least once in their three-test series, which is scheduled to start at the end of February, but is yet to be officially locked in.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/authors/andrew-voerman
The good news is that Australia have lost at least once on each of their last four tours of South Africa – going down 3-1 in 2018, when the infamous ball-tampering incident took place; winning 2-1 in 2014; drawing 1-1 in 2011; and winning 2-1 in 2009.
The series before that in 2006 ended as a 3-0 win to the visitors, but that was the only time Australia have gone undefeated in their last 10 visits, so history is on the Black Caps’ side.
If South Africa and Australia were to draw two of their three tests – having only drawn once in South Africa in 24 meetings there since the Proteas’ readmission to test cricket in 1991 – that would also be enough, regardless of what happens elsewhere.


From Australia’s point of view, they are looking for a clean sweep or two wins and a draw to move back above the Black Caps.
If they can pull that off, the New Zealanders’ hopes will then lie with England, who are currently in Sri Lanka, but will travel to India to play a four-test series beginning on February 5.
India are in a position of relative comfort after their win in Brisbane – the first by a touring side at the Gabba since 1988 – and will stay ahead of the Black Caps if they beat England 4-0, 3-0, 3-1 or 2-0.

Kane Williamson and the Black Caps need South Africa – or England – to give them a helping hand over the next couple of months.
If pinning their hopes on a South African win doesn’t work out, the Black Caps will need England to win at least twice, to win once while also drawing at least once, or to force three draws.
England have won two tests in India on four occasions – most recently in 2012, then in 1984, 1976, and 1933 – so history is not so kind to Kane Williamson and co there.
Their last visit was in 2016, when they lost a five-match series 4-0; then there was a 2-1 win in a four-match series in 2012, a 1-0 loss in a two-match series in 2008, a 1-1 draw in a three-match series in 2006; and a 1-0 loss in 2001.
https://my.stuff.co.nz/register/newsletter?type=cupupdates
If England were to win their remaining test in Sri Lanka and take that series 2-0, then go to India and win 4-0 or 3-0 – an extremely unlikely scenario – they would push India below the Black Caps, but move ahead themselves.
If that were to happen – and it’s a massive if – the Black Caps would need South Africa to come through.
The inaugural edition of the WTC started with the Ashes series in England in 2019 and will culminate in the next few months, with several series still to be officially scheduled due to the logistical challenges thrown up by the Covid-19 pandemic.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/women-in-sport
Those include the South Africa-Australia series, which Australia need to play to control their own destiny with regard to the final. Earlier this week a Cricket Australia spokesman told the Sydney Morning Herald:Suffice to say we are not there yet, but we want to go and we are working through things with them”. If it wasn’t to go ahead, the Black Caps would be assured of a place in the WTC final, regardless of what happens with England and India.
In the wake of the pandemic, the International Cricket Council announced last November that teams would be ranked according to the percentage of available points they had won, rather than their raw points totals, as some series were unable to be completed in time for the final to take place in June.
With a 2-0 win over the West Indies and a 2-0 win over Pakistan, the Black Caps finished their home summer having won 70 per cent of the points available of them. India have currently won 71.7 per cent of their available points, while Australia have won 69.2 per cent and England 65.2 per cent.
Simply put
To make the WTC final, the Black Caps need South Africa to win at least once or draw at least twice when they host Australia for three tests in February and March or England to win at least twice, win once and draw once, or draw at least three times when they visit India for four tests at the same time, but if England beat Sri Lanka in their second test, which starts later this week, then beat India 4-0 or 3-0, the Black Caps would need both scenarios to happen.
How things stand
1. India: 71.7 per cent of points won; four tests remaining at home v England
2. New Zealand: 70 per cent of points won; no tests remaining
3. Australia: 69.2 per cent of points won; three tests remaining away v South Africa
4. England: 65.2 per cent of points won; one test remaining away v Sri Lanka; four tests remaining away v India
The top two teams play in the final in England in June, currently scheduled for Lord’s.
Yeah yeah, rub it in KiwiRoo :P
 

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I can't believe no one said:

Pant's on fire.

He deserved a hundred yesterday and whatever the rest of his career brings will probably retire thinking that was one of his greatest performances.
The only reason he didn't get a hundred was because Australia didn't have a big enough lead.
 
Smith is notoriously underbowled.

Elevate Green and bring in a proper bowling all rounder.

I just think Paine reckons he's got the best attack in the world and that's it. He doesn't try much else.

In any event the best attack in the world is up for debate IMO and purely depends on how you rate Nathan Lyon. NZ's Boult, Wagner, Southee and Jamieson is pretty good and so is Broad, Anderson, Archer and Stokes. It's how Santner and Leach/Bess compare to Lyon to split it. Hell, India have two quality spinners using Jadeja as the 5th and at full strength have Bumrah, Shami, Ishant and more than handy depth.

The difference is that NZ, England and India use all 5. We had a fifth in this series and never bowled him, leaving the rest knackered with only Cummins and Hazlewood playing any part.
 
I just think Paine reckons he's got the best attack in the world and that's it. He doesn't try much else.

In any event the best attack in the world is up for debate IMO and purely depends on how you rate Nathan Lyon. NZ's Boult, Wagner, Southee and Jamieson is pretty good and so is Broad, Anderson, Archer and Stokes. It's how Santner and Leach/Bess compare to Lyon to split it. Hell, India have two quality spinners using Jadeja as the 5th and at full strength have Bumrah, Shami, Ishant and more than handy depth.

The difference is that NZ, England and India use all 5. We had a fifth in this series and never bowled him, leaving the rest knackered with only Cummins and Hazlewood playing any part.

Lyon is honest, and I wouldn't be outright discarding him yet, but the time to start working in his successor has arrived.
 
That was a great last day, got to have been up there with Headingly last ashes and the 2005 Ashes tests... just great cricket. So many of the commentators were calling for Australia to declare with a lead of 280 saying they definitely had enough runs.
 
Yep. Green will be a great 5th bowler over the journey. We need to remember that he is still recovering from stress fractures and if he was purely a bowler would not be back playing FC cricket yet as he is not up to the workloads. As you said only got overs against set batsmen when the ball was older and never against the tail.

When it comes to Starc it is a bit all or nothing. Surely we can be better at identifying when he is in or out of form and select accordingly.
The interesting thing is the Ashes series was all about the "squad" of bowlers......this series the 4 frontliners were automatic selections
 
When looking at this series Australia was lucky to get as close as we did. The batting just didn't stand up. Playing Burns who had no form and playing an injured Warner made no sense.
It's a shame that Renshaw has been ruined by T20 because he was a solid opener.
I really struggle to name a batsman for number 5. In years gone by there was plenty of guys who could play there. Wade is no where near the standard of a test batsman.
The bowlers did great but didn't get long periods to rest as the batsman didn't last long.
We really lacked a bowler who was a bit slower than the other three fast bowlers. Having a guy bowling around the 130-135ks could have made the difference.
Hopefully this is a wake up call that spots in the Aussie team are earned not given ( sounds like the B Scott days).
 
Those two never won fu** all, which is the point.

It’s an incredibly boring, tough and gruelling sport played by a lot of blokes with Mental Illness, some of which are genuine psychopaths.

Marnus and Smithy are both on the spectrum. Wade is ya typical dumb campaigner keeper moron who just has non stop verbal diarrhoea.

Kallis and DeVilliers didn't win anything?

They were the best Test team at various stages of their careers.

Plus I highly respected how they went about their cricket.

Agree with the rest though........
 

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Kallis would be our best player right now.

Bat 3 (Lamb to open) and he was better bowler than Green. So probably 2nd change.

Plus arguably best slip fielder ever.

But yeah......he never won anything apparently
 
Pujara a warrior.

Full credit to him.

Without him copping it to soften up the ball India lose it's as simple as that
 
No problem, wouldn’t mind a few more ‘flat-track bullies’ capable of 7000+ test runs @ 48.

They’re hardly growing on trees.

He averages 33.17 away and 63.2 in Australia.

I’d prefer openers who don’t shit themselves every time they board a plane to play outside of Australia.
 

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He averages 33.17 away and 63.2 in Australia.

I’d prefer openers who don’t sh*t themselves every time they board a plane to play outside of Australia.
I’d prefer openers who are capable of scoring runs. There doesn’t appear to be anyone else around at the moment capable of averaging 33 regardless of the venue.

Warner has his faults technically but he’s significantly better and more proven than the alternatives.
 
Lyon is honest, and I wouldn't be outright discarding him yet, but the time to start working in his successor has arrived.
400 test wickets is better than honest mate.

I agree that he has limitations - he only really has one method and lacks variation.

Finding a successor is a real issue, Swepson’s not the answer, he bowls with no front arm and no loop. I don’t understand Warnie’s obsession with him.

I actually think the next best option is still Fawad Ahmed, he’s slower through the air, bowls with good flight and has variations, but the selectors have clearly gone past him.

I feel like Tanveer Sangha is the hope of the side from what I’ve seen but he hasn’t even played FC cricket yet.
 
Yeah yeah, rub it in KiwiRoo :p
Rub it in !

You just need to beat a pretty average South African side 2-0 (and not lose a test) and we're stuffed !.You're right in this up to your corked hats

at least i think that's correct..I struggle to understand how to put a trifecta bet on.. me and math's aren't compatible
 
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