Crows lack enforcers.

[Allefgib]

I haven't read the article, but does it report what was the precise question he is being asked. The answer could be taken differently to:

(a) Do you want to play with passion, and go hard at the ball.

or

(b) Will you go the thump this week to try to put Port off.


If it was more along the lines of (b), of course he would say that football isn't played like that, we haven't done that for years etc.

No it doesn't. I made the effort to read it to ensure I was commenting fairly as it is indeed easy for journalists to skew perception by not putting in their specific questions.

However - I still think what I've said is valid.

I never once said he should talk about knocking heads off or drawing lines in the sand. Just talk about showing some real intensity and desperation at the contest as opposed to comments like:

"We're just focused on what we can control and the way we play our style of footy. We're not going to do anything we're not capable of."

"We'll play the way we normally play and try to play to the standard we need to play at to win."

Maybe he just isn't clever enough on his feet to reword things - which is fine - but I'd be giving him huge wraps right now and not feeling disappointed if he'd talked about how hard all of our players intend to attack each contest this coming week. There would have been every opportunity during such an interview.

Look maybe he did and they didn't include those quotes? Thats possible but not probable.

FIRE UP BOYS AND LET US HEAR/FEEL IT. You want us to yell and scream for you - GIVE US SOMETHING TO GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT. The vast majority of us want that - yearn for that - but the type of emotion and passion many of us want to see generated through support requires a commitment from both sides. Right now we are not getting enough on the field, or off it, to feed that mob mentality of rapturous cheering we, and the club, would love to see at games. Goody had a chance to build some expectation, intensity and excitement in that interview - and didn't. So I'm dissappointed. Aren't you?

 

[SydCrow]

We've had a few get done for accidentally taking someone high, or things like that. Can't remember the last time we got done for something which might be considered dirty - striking, melees, that sort of thing.

I can't find the records anywhere - is the AFL trying to hide them?

the last suspension I can find was Burton - 2 games in June 2008 for front on contact on Henry Slattery

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23805093-23211,00.html

 

[Vader]

I can't find the records anywhere - is the AFL trying to hide them?

the last suspension I can find was Burton - 2 games in June 2008 for front on contact on Henry Slattery

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23805093-23211,00.html

The only suspension I can recall from 2009 was Bock's club imposed suspension. It's possible that Burton's hit on Slattery was actually the last time a Crows player got suspended.

The AFL don't exactly go out of their way to make searching for things like this overly easy.

 

[FlyingCrow]

How many "enforcers" do Geelong have?

They play hard football, hard at the ball. Which I think is what Goody is trying to say we like to play.

In 2008 we had a home game against the WCE and we were just that. Is probably the most physical I have seen from the Crows since Roo left. The last two years we have been very similar, although that game demanded the players give their all. It was a brutal game, yet there were no reports. It was just good hard footy.

This year we have been limp. The worst part of this year is being the 16th team in terms of tackles. That is pretty damming.

 

[johnnypanther]

Absolutely - I certainly don't want to see jumper punches or meaningless push and shove if once the siren sounds we continue to get smashed in contested posessions.

However what we want to see is some passion and aggression at the contest. And it is possible to "enforce" within the rules. When you tackle do everything you can to make the tackle count and hurt. If there is oppurtunity for a fair bump, then do it. You can make your intention the ball and the contest while still throwing a bit of weight around. And definitely protecting the younger players is vitally important. You don't reckon Matt Thomas is going to go out there and line up someone like Jaensch, Cook or Petrenko?

Port will come out to physically intimidate our younger players. In that classic Showdown in 2008 we didn't get sucked in to their physicality off the contest but instead made contested possession our goal, went hard at the contest but if a Port player got in our way while going for the contest, they got smashed, fairly.

People awlays point to that game as an example of why we should play nice PC footy without showing physicality and instead concentrating on playing footy because we ignored what Port did and went about playing our usual footy and won - a triumph if you like of good footy over evil footy. But the reaility is that we were just as physical as Port that day - we just made the ball and the contest the focus of our physicality. We threw our bodies in hard and I'm pretty sure the Port boys were equally as sore after the game. As for the not flying the flag - Didn't Edwards come in and remonstrate with brogan after his hit on Jericho - The boys were fired up that day and that's what we want to see - not cheap shots, just aggression at the contest and passion and pride in the jumper.

The way we played in that classic showdown of 2008 is the way i'ld like to see us play now (or at least on Saturday). Despite our depleted line-up, i believe that we would still defeat Port if we play like that - since underneath their exterior, Port are still the same old downhill skiers....

Unfortunately, i think we have changed our playing style and now we have too much of this "touch football type frontal pressure" crap or whatever they want to call it, therefore i cannot see us winning.

 

[ftmch]

Not suggesting we need a team full of agro heads - but one or 2 (maybe 3?), are critical to team balance / dynamic.

If we're talking Geelong, look at Cam Mooney or Paul Chapman - both great players, hard at the call, and courageous. But they are also players, when, if push comes to shove, and their team needs that spark, will not hesitate to push the boundaries. Their teammates know it, and the opposition know it.

To put it another way, imagine a young player from an opposition side approaching a 50-50 contest. Do you think he would approach that contest in the same manner coming up against Campbell Brown, as opposed to a Richard Douglass or a Bernie Vince? Many of them would, but many of them wouldn't. If that gives us just a 5% edge over that, and comparable contests, over the course of the game, and for the duration of a season, it's surely worth it.

Honestly, if it costs us a suspension now and again, for the sake of an elevated level of 'awareness' of us from opposition clubs, I think it's a small price to pay (except when it's your Captain in finals time).

 

[CROW36]

Definitely need to put Thomas out of the game you just know he will be looking for a cheap hit all day on one of our younger players. Absolutely no football ability that bloke, in the team to hurt the other team.

This time last year Port played there grand final against us and won, and the reason being is that they showed PASSION, we were hot favourites to win that day and they just blew us out of the park, come on boys show some passion for your supporters...........GRUNT

 

[amer]

If you can name me a game of footy in the last three years that we lost because we were -intimidated- out of it by the presence of "enforcers" in the opposition side, I'll be happy to lend an ear.

Geelong went all enforcer in '89 and it got them nowhere. Club finally got it right in 2007 by playing the ball.

 

[amer]

Not suggesting we need a team full of agro heads - but one or 2 (maybe 3?), are critical to team balance / dynamic.

If we're talking Geelong, look at Cam Mooney or Paul Chapman - both great players, hard at the call, and courageous. But they are also players, when, if push comes to shove, and their team needs that spark, will not hesitate to push the boundaries. Their teammates know it, and the opposition know it.

To put it another way, imagine a young player from an opposition side approaching a 50-50 contest. Do you think he would approach that contest in the same manner coming up against Campbell Brown, as opposed to a Richard Douglass or a Bernie Vince? Many of them would, but many of them wouldn't. If that gives us just a 5% edge over that, and comparable contests, over the course of the game, and for the duration of a season, it's surely worth it.

Honestly, if it costs us a suspension now and again, for the sake of an elevated level of 'awareness' of us from opposition clubs, I think it's a small price to pay (except when it's your Captain in finals time).

, please. All Cam Mooney did was get himself suspended all the time, much to the disapproval of the GFC. He was taken aside in prep for the '07 season, told to clean up his act, and did so. As for Chapman, ball player.

Look, I understand that we're frustrated about the way things are going at present, but we need to win contested ball, not punch blokes in the kidneys and shirt front everyone.

 

[ftmch]

Mooney circa 2009 / 2010 is an excellent example of the aggression that we are missing in our team. The guys a w***er, but has an undeniable presence that, when push comes to shove, benefits, not hinders, his team.

Who on our list can we say does the same at present?

No-one's suggesting kidney punches and the like - that's just a bloody ridiculous statement to make.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Still surprises me that supporters bring up that 2008 showdown as an example of how our lack of aggression is good thing. That was a costly game for us. We may have got the 4 points but the long term repercussions were not good. Jericho had his sternum smashed, Bassett knocked out cold, Bernie taken out and Porplyzia had his shoulder ruined, an injury that still restricts him today. Would Port Power have employed those tactics if we had Barry Hall at CHF and Brian Lake at FB, yeah right, highly unlikely.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

IMO "true" enforcers are a thing of the past and lets not get confused between an enforcer and a hard player. Back in the 90's players like Roo, Woosha and Budda Hocking would look for opportunities to exert themself on the game by dishing out a huge hit, the AFL have gone to great lengths to eliminate this from the game, example Buddy's recent 1 week suspension for a light bump and this is why clubs dont play that way anymore.

HOWEVER in saying that what we want to see is players like Truck, Bock, Maric, Tippett, Danger, Thompson, Knights and Vince who all have mature bodies to hit the ball and contest as hard as any other players in the comp, if we do this we will be regarded as a "Hard" team

For his size, Rutten is painfully unaggressive. The only way he will damage the opposition is if when he pats his opponent on the a$$ before the game, he pats too hard.

 

[ftmch]

Would Port Power have employed those tactics if we had Barry Hall at CHF and Brian Lake at FB, yeah right, highly unlikely.

+1

(Radiohead, btw).

 

[CROW36]

For his size, Rutten is painfully unaggressive. The only way he will damage the opposition is if when he pats his opponent on the a$$ before the game, he pats too hard.

You can blame principle Craig for that, he wants nothing to do with the sort of thing how on earth can you show any passion and emotion if you are so restricted by your coach to behave.Craigy is a great coach when it comes to mid-week preparation (theory) but a dud when its time to prepare his team for battle (practical) maybe he should have been a science teacher he would be fantastic at it.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Still surprises me that supporters bring up that 2008 showdown as an example of how our lack of aggression is good thing. That was a costly game for us. We may have got the 4 points but the long term repercussions were not good. Jericho had his sternum smashed, Bassett knocked out cold, Bernie taken out and Porplyzia had his shoulder ruined, an injury that still restricts him today. Would Port Power have employed those tactics if we had Barry Hall at CHF and Brian Lake at FB, yeah right, highly unlikely.

Thought I would reignite this thread, as I think it's a topic that will rear its head again this year.

What are people's thoughts?

 

[jenny61_99]

Thought I would reignite this thread, as I think it's a topic that will rear its head again this year.

What are people's thoughts?

It was interesting reading the old thread you dug out about Ivan standing up for Danger. I think it's an emotive topic that will most likely rear it's head again and again. Do you really see much of that sort of "flag flying" in games these days? I mean - in perspective, are Adelaide worse than every other team at this sort of thing? The AFL tribunal has put paid to most of it I would have thought.

For those that remember the "good ol' days", flag flying was the expected, the norm. But today, the expectation is that you will play the ball, not the man. The principle reason being it will cost us dearly in terms of games lost through suspension and possibly through injury.

I was happy when Ivan stood up for Danger... and we've seen him do it a few times since then. But I'm still not convinced it's the way to go. I'd rather them answer the aggression to the man, with aggression to the ball. Win the ball, kick goals, win the game. Far better than belting the crap out of someone and then maybe going on to lose the game.

Having said that, wasn't there a game in 2010 where there was some flag flying done by some of the younger boys (Sloane comes to mind??). I think with the changing of the guard, you might see more of it from our team. Tex certainly looks like one that won't be backward in stepping forward.

Bottom line is, does flag flying win games? Maybe, maybe not. It might make the supporters that crave it feel better, but it doesn't guarantee a win.

 

[NTRabbit]

Since it's the favourite thing to do, name the "enforcer" in the Collingwood side

 

[AFC979810]

Since it's the favourite thing to do, name the "enforcer" in the Collingwood side

Maxwell?

 

[Allefgib]

Go watch the HIGHLIGHTs again for the Geelong game. (for your benefit TW13 )

I LOVE the fact Bernie was back to his annoying best in that game that the opposition started to target him for some rough stuff - to me its a reflection of his approach to the game and how damaging he can be when 'on'. Without a certain level of arrogance, reflected in how he gets physically targetted, I don't believe Bernie is at his best.

The desire to 'fly the flag' is so much more than just pushing a few peopel around. It shows a genuine desire to protect your team mates and is a reflection of being willing to play for each other no matter what. IMO in being too focussed on being clean and just playing the ball we lose a bit of that. Some situations require someone to stand up and let the opposition know their behaviour will NOT be tolerate - no matter the cost at the tribunal/hip pocket. AFL is a physical game if you aren't going to stand up 'push back' on a physical opponenet you are going to be taken adavantage of more and more.

I'm not talking about beating the crap out of people. I'm talking about having a physical presence and using it to assert yourself on opposition who may be takign liberties with your team mates. That can manifest itself in a variety of ways... but none of the ones I think about involve walkign away from a confrontation or leaving a teammate to pick himself up after being cleaned up.

 

[ruscy002]

It was interesting reading the old thread you dug out about Ivan standing up for Danger. I think it's an emotive topic that will most likely rear it's head again and again. Do you really see much of that sort of "flag flying" in games these days? I mean - in perspective, are Adelaide worse than every other team at this sort of thing? The AFL tribunal has put paid to most of it I would have thought.

For those that remember the "good ol' days", flag flying was the expected, the norm. But today, the expectation is that you will play the ball, not the man. The principle reason being it will cost us dearly in terms of games lost through suspension and possibly through injury.

I was happy when Ivan stood up for Danger... and we've seen him do it a few times since then. But I'm still not convinced it's the way to go. I'd rather them answer the aggression to the man, with aggression to the ball. Win the ball, kick goals, win the game. Far better than belting the crap out of someone and then maybe going on to lose the game.

Having said that, wasn't there a game in 2010 where there was some flag flying done by some of the younger boys (Sloane comes to mind??). I think with the changing of the guard, you might see more of it from our team. Tex certainly looks like one that won't be backward in stepping forward.

Bottom line is, does flag flying win games? Maybe, maybe not. It might make the supporters that crave it feel better, but it doesn't guarantee a win.

These days due to different laws of the game, "flying the flag" amounts to nothing more than engaging in a bit of push and shove - if we can't do this then we're pathetic. By my observations and the observations of many others, there's not a footy club more adverse to this type of physicality than the Crows. This doesn't make us look professional or composed, it makes us look meek.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Go watch the HIGHLIGHTs again for the Geelong game. (for your benefit TW13 )

I LOVE the fact Bernie was back to his annoying best in that game that the opposition started to target him for some rough stuff - to me its a reflection of his approach to the game and how damaging he can be when 'on'. Without a certain level of arrogance, reflected in how he gets physically targetted, I don't believe Bernie is at his best.

The desire to 'fly the flag' is so much more than just pushing a few peopel around. It shows a genuine desire to protect your team mates and is a reflection of being willing to play for each other no matter what. IMO in being too focussed on being clean and just playing the ball we lose a bit of that. Some situations require someone to stand up and let the opposition know their behaviour will NOT be tolerate - no matter the cost at the tribunal/hip pocket. AFL is a physical game if you aren't going to stand up 'push back' on a physical opponenet you are going to be taken adavantage of more and more.

I'm not talking about beating the crap out of people. I'm talking about having a physical presence and using it to assert yourself on opposition who may be takign liberties with your team mates. That can manifest itself in a variety of ways... but none of the ones I think about involve walkign away from a confrontation or leaving a teammate to pick himself up after being cleaned up.

Amen.

You don't have to be 100kg to be an enforcer.

 

[Slippery Pete]

These days due to different laws of the game, "flying the flag" amounts to nothing more than engaging in a bit of push and shove - if we can't do this then we're pathetic. By my observations and the observations of many others, there's not a footy club more adverse to this type of physicality than the Crows. This doesn't make us look professional or composed, it makes us look meek.

And just generally letting the opposition - and the umpires - know you're around.

That day against Melbourne, Danger was repeatedly gang tackled and driven head first into the turf a number of times leading up to that ugly incident. The kid was offered no protection from his teammates whatsoever. Reilly, Douglas et al... they just stood around like statues, letting Danger get pole-axed every time he went near the ball.

It would not have progressed to Dangerfield being stretchered off the ground had Ricciuto been involved that day.

 

[ruscy002]

Amen.

You don't have to be 100kg to be an enforcer.

Spot on

And just generally letting the opposition - and the umpires - know you're around.

That day against Melbourne, Danger was repeatedly gang tackled and driven head first into the turf a number of times leading up to that ugly incident. The kid was offered no protection from his teammates whatsoever. Reilly, Douglas et al... they just stood around like statues, letting Danger get pole-axed every time he went near the ball.

It would not have progressed to Dangerfield being stretchered off the ground had Ricciuto been involved that day.

Yep, it's not as though being more physical is going to hurt us with the umpires either - I don't think we've had too many seasons under Craigy where we've come out with more frees for than against.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Spot on



Yep, it's not as though being more physical is going to hurt us with the umpires either - I don't think we've had too many seasons under Craigy where we've come out with more frees for than against.

The umpires rub their hands together when they get a Crows game on their itinerary. We don't question anything.

 

[icrow32]

It was interesting reading the old thread you dug out about Ivan standing up for Danger. I think it's an emotive topic that will most likely rear it's head again and again. Do you really see much of that sort of "flag flying" in games these days? I mean - in perspective, are Adelaide worse than every other team at this sort of thing? The AFL tribunal has put paid to most of it I would have thought.

For those that remember the "good ol' days", flag flying was the expected, the norm. But today, the expectation is that you will play the ball, not the man. The principle reason being it will cost us dearly in terms of games lost through suspension and possibly through injury.

I was happy when Ivan stood up for Danger... and we've seen him do it a few times since then. But I'm still not convinced it's the way to go. I'd rather them answer the aggression to the man, with aggression to the ball. Win the ball, kick goals, win the game. Far better than belting the crap out of someone and then maybe going on to lose the game.

Having said that, wasn't there a game in 2010 where there was some flag flying done by some of the younger boys (Sloane comes to mind??). I think with the changing of the guard, you might see more of it from our team. Tex certainly looks like one that won't be backward in stepping forward.

Bottom line is, does flag flying win games? Maybe, maybe not. It might make the supporters that crave it feel better, but it doesn't guarantee a win.

What a surprise that you want to maintain the status quo in and area that we clearly fail at (ie being agressive) under Craigs regime, are you his mum/sister/wife/Crows assistant coach?