Crows lack enforcers.

[NTRabbit]

Maxwell?

Piffle. He's a floating third defender who avoids most contests. If Maxwell is an enforcer, then so was Tom Harley.

Collingwood don't have an "enforcer".

So what do we do now? I mean, we have to copy Collingwood in everything right? Or is it just everything that supports the arguments of certain ignorant malcontents on this forum?

What a conundrum!

 

[jenny61_99]

These days due to different laws of the game, "flying the flag" amounts to nothing more than engaging in a bit of push and shove - if we can't do this then we're pathetic. By my observations and the observations of many others, there's not a footy club more adverse to this type of physicality than the Crows. This doesn't make us look professional or composed, it makes us look meek.

By your own admission, flying the flag amounts to nothing more than "engaging in a bit of push and shove". So therefore, why do it? Because it shows we are MEN? Pfft. I'm all for it if it made a difference, but the question remains - does it make a difference?

 

[Slippery Pete]

Piffle. He's a floating third defender who avoids most contests. If Maxwell is an enforcer, then so was Tom Harley.

Collingwood don't have an "enforcer".

So what do we do now? I mean, we have to copy Collingwood in everything right? Or is it just everything that supports the arguments of certain ignorant malcontents on this forum?

What a conundrum!

Weren't you the one who brought up Collingwood?

 

[jenny61_99]

What a surprise that you want to maintain the status quo in and area that we clearly fail at (ie being agressive) under Craigs regime, are you his mum/sister/wife/Crows assistant coach?

I'm not saying keep the status quo at all. Like I said above, if it makes a difference to the outcome of a game, then I'm all for it (to a degree). But all it really does is placate the chest bangers. "Hmmff, me tough, me angry". If you can show me an instance where it wins a game for us, then I'll reconsider my view. I'd much rather our players go in hard for the ball and tackle hard than pump up their chests and shove the opposition. I reckon you'd win more games if you did that.

 

[AFC979810]

It is an interesting question, but I think the answer that we don't lack an enforcer so to speak - we have I think 4 players who I saw show a physical presence outside of getting the hardball last year...

We have some players who have shown some 'agro':

Ivan - His Serbian anger has been discussed previously.

Thommo - I think he has finally matured to the fact where he can balance his aggression... Definitely makes his presence felt now and I think he has gotten over the phase where he was trying to physically impose himself on games and giving away silly free kicks. Feel he has a very important job this year looking out for the our young midfield brigade.

Vince - Loved the attention and doesn't mind giving it back...Is now 25 and should be physically at his strongest - surprisingly tall (same height as Danger).

Sloane - Showed he loves a bit of niggle in the Essendon match in 2010 and I think he could develop into the 'yappy scrapper' type of enforcer - who isnt overly physically intimidating but is always willing to put his 2cents and throw his smaller frame around.

We have an extremely young list, but I think as the key midfield group of Vince, Thommo, Danger, Otten, Sloane, Mackay and Douglas play together and mature more they will naturally become a more physical outfit...

 

[AFC979810]

I'm not saying keep the status quo at all. Like I said above, if it makes a difference to the outcome of a game, then I'm all for it (to a degree). But all it really does is placate the chest bangers. "Hmmff, me tough, me angry". If you can show me an instance where it wins a game for us, then I'll reconsider my view. I'd much rather our players go in hard for the ball and tackle hard than pump up their chests and shove the opposition. I reckon you'd win more games if you did that.

Sorry Jenny, but the above post sounds like an annoying mum who wont let her 8 year old son play footy because Barry Hall punched someone...

Whilst it might just sound like 'me tough, me angry' to you, I can tell you it means a hell of a lot more. To have a player remonstrate with an opposition player for something untoward or physically imposing lifts an entire side. It shows that in a team dominated sport your teammates are behind you and willing to follow you into the contest.

Your point of 'show me an instance where it has won a game and ill consider' is ridiculous as it is not tangible. However, if you need an example of how flying the flag can change a club for the better - have a look at the infamous line in the sand... That football club stood up to Essendon that day and made a statement that they would no longer be bullied (have a look at the record in the 10 games before and after that match).

I am not trying to be condescending, but unless you have played competitive footy - you can not understand the impact of flying the flag.

 

[NTRabbit]

Weren't you the one who brought up Collingwood?

I just beat them to it this time around.

 

[SydCrow]

Ivan - His Serbian anger has been discussed previously.

I hope he doesn't read this

he is Croatian ...

 

[Mad Fan of AFL]

We have Thompson, Dangerfield, Sloane and Maric.

 

[ringo200]

Loved it when Sloane got stuck into Goddard after he gave away a free, think it was round 22.

 

[SydCrow]

I'd also like to see Smack on the angry pills

and Sellar has the haircut of an enforcer

 

[jenny61_99]

Sorry Jenny, but the above post sounds like an annoying mum who wont let her 8 year old son play footy because Barry Hall punched someone...

Actually, he is 9 years old and he is one hell of a footy player! (Runner-up best and fairest, and best and fairest in his last two seasons). Clearly at this stage there isn't any "biff" but he is not averse to pushing someone if he gets pushed.

Whilst it might just sound like 'me tough, me angry' to you, I can tell you it means a hell of a lot more. To have a player remonstrate with an opposition player for something untoward or physically imposing lifts an entire side. It shows that in a team dominated sport your teammates are behind you and willing to follow you into the contest.

I have played representative competitive sport before, and I know what it means to play in a team. Obviously I haven't played AFL. I think though, that it is definitely a "boy" thing.

Your point of 'show me an instance where it has won a game and ill consider' is ridiculous as it is not tangible. However, if you need an example of how flying the flag can change a club for the better - have a look at the infamous line in the sand... That football club stood up to Essendon that day and made a statement that they would no longer be bullied (have a look at the record in the 10 games before and after that match).

Hawthorn stood up to Essendon that day - and got thumped by 74 points.

I am not trying to be condescending, but unless you have played competitive footy - you can not understand the impact of flying the flag.

Clearly I have to acquiesce on that point.

 

[AFC979810]

Ivan - His Serbian anger has been discussed previously.

I hope he doesn't read this

he is Croatian ...

If I don't post again - its safe to assume Maric (or his cousins) are members of Big Footy.

 

[AFC979810]

Hawthorn stood up to Essendon that day - and got thumped by 74 points.

It wasn't about winning that particular game, it sent a message to the league that they weren't going to be physically intimidated....

 

[jenny61_99]

It wasn't about winning that particular game, it sent a message to the league that they weren't going to be physically intimidated....

Like I said, they got thumped. They then went on to lose 9 out of 11 games. Not sure this was the right example for you to use.

 

[ruscy002]

By your own admission, flying the flag amounts to nothing more than "engaging in a bit of push and shove". So therefore, why do it? Because it shows we are MEN? Pfft.

Because that's what's allowed within the rules to a point where our guys don't get rubbed out for games.

I'm all for it if it made a difference, but the question remains - does it make a difference?

If someone pushes you around and you hand over $10, what are they going to keep doing? That is the same as showing weakness, the more physical teams feed of this and will want it every time they play us. It is 100% undeniably worth it standing up for yourself and your team mates.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

You just have to look at the way we tackle as to how far we have slipped in the aggressive/toughness side of the game. We are without a doubt the least aggressive/worst tackling team in the competition.

 

[jenny61_99]

Because that's what's allowed within the rules to a point where our guys don't get rubbed out for games.



If someone pushes you around and you hand over $10, what are they going to keep doing? That is the same as showing weakness, the more physical teams feed of this and will want it every time they play us. It is 100% undeniably worth it standing up for yourself and your team mates.

All good points. Still not sure it makes a difference between winning and losing a game though.

 

[jenny61_99]

You just have to look at the way we tackle as to how far we have slipped in the aggressive/toughness side of the game. We are without a doubt the least aggressive/worst tackling team in the competition.

Now on THIS point I agree. Our tackling has been woeful for years... we lay the tackle, and the opposition break out of it, or get the arm free to lay off a handball. I'm not sure if it's aggression we need - or better technique? Perhaps a combination of both?

 

[Niximus]

Now on THIS point I agree. Our tackling has been woeful for years... we lay the tackle, and the opposition break out of it, or get the arm free to lay off a handball. I'm not sure if it's aggression we need - or better technique? Perhaps a combination of both?

I don't think it is an agression problem, technique probably needs some work but a lot of the big 'offenders' for letting opposition slip through tackles were doing so with still developing bodies.

Some specialist tackling training and more muscle is the key IMO.

 

[cmndstab]

I think there is definitely a case for "flying the flag" - it's very important to give the air of not willing to be pushed around, not willing to allow your teammates to be targeted, and being proactive in confronting intimidation tactics.

Of course, when it goes over the top I think it can get a bit counterproductive, but that's certainly not an issue we have. We could stand to do a hell of a lot more than we do.

 

[crowsarethebest]

Since it's the favourite thing to do, name the "enforcer" in the Collingwood side

I reckon Leigh Brown is theirs. The guy is pretty underrated, was a spud at Freo and Kangas but he's basically the guy who was bought the undersized mobile 2nd ruck into fashion again. Gives a darn good contest in the ruck, can swing forward or back and is just a handy, handy player. He's given them a level of toughness as well, he just puts his body on the line and throws his weight around in marking contests. An upgrade on Josh Fraser as he is just a much more competitive character.

 

[fabs33]

All good points. Still not sure it makes a difference between winning and losing a game though.

You're probably right in saying that, but aren't most games won by the accumulation of the little things.

 

[FR0GGY]

The game against essendon a couple of years ago when Vince was getting smashed from pillar to post but was BOG. I can't remember anyone blocking for him or standing up for him. He was able to cope with it and thrived on it but I don't think most of our other players are like that.

 

[Allefgib]

Jenny - I'll give you the Carlton game in the wet that Roo won for us back in early noughties. He won that game for us not just with skill and kicking goals but by his physical presence and making it felt.

Also - Craigy loves to push the 19th man. He feels the crowd has a massive influence on us winning games at footy park. You might recall last year I was referring to the crowd involvement being a 2-way street.. we need to be inspired and 'feel' the players are switched on and giving theri best to be able to respond in crowd to further lift them to greater heroics. If you are willing to accept that.. are you willing to accept that more flag flying would get the crowd right into the game and behind our boys even more?

For mine we've seen enough comments in this thread to indicate it would have a tangible impact on crowd response to on-field effort which, according to Craigy, is more of what the club want and helps them win games.