Crows vs. Demons - Match Talk

[Redline]

Mathew Bode, Michael Doughty and Robert Shirley have been the barometer for good form over the last few years. When they have had very good games, so has the AFC.

All 3 would still be considered in the best 22.

You have hit the nail on the head with that comment, those three play well in winning teams.All three lack real class so rely on the teams performance for good games as opposed to the fact those three being the difference between us being a good or poor team.

There is a place for those three in the team but are all on the edge and in my opinion should a younger player come along that might help us take the next step then they should be moved aside.

I like Bode but him in particular is going to have a lot of competition for his spot this year.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Man, I CAN'T feel the LOVE here!!!!

Why do people continually have to call out players who give their heart and sould for the jumper just because they might be the type of player they don't like or they might be in a certain age bracket?!

Here is a little fact. In a side that has 22 spots each week its practically impossible to have 22 stars. You need role players that will complement your stars and do the tough things that don't get noticed so your stars can do the flashy things that makes everyone go "ooh" and "ahh".

Its obvious that whipping boys on this board are without a miss, Bode, Shirley, Doughty and McGregor. Last year it used to be Clarke and Biglands who were added to that group.

Now these are the guys who have been integral parts of the team (at one time or another) that has made it to the 2 prelim finals in the last 2 years. This same Shirley that people LOVE to pick on has been a regular in our side for 3-4 years. He was getting a regular game even when Stenglein was still around. He must be doing something right to get a regular game AND finish top 10 in a B&F for a side that went on to play in a preliminary final.

Bode is another one that people just LOVE to bag for some reason. Sure he can burn the ball sometimes and he gets unfairly crusified because of it but FFS is there a better small forward at creating defensive pressure in the forward 50 in the AFL? This lad led our team in tackling last year from a forward pocket. He also kicked 30 odd goals and his defensive pressure has created so many other opportunities for his team mates. If he so average why does he get picked when ever fit? Because he is there to perform a certain role that is integral to the overall strategy and structure of the side. He is a little terrier that will not let that ball leave the forward 50 with ease. His pressure will make it easier for the rest of the players down the field.

Then there is the young one! Back in 2004 I have been super critical of him and his lack of courage at times but he has moved on from that to be one of the most courageous players wearing our jumper and he performs week in week out. He is Craigy's "Mr Versatility". He is getting thrown around from position to position and he keeps performing week in week out. He arguably had a career best year in 2006 and people now want to show him the door.

Yes the youngsters have to come into the calculations at one stage or another but they must EARN that spot. They WILL NOT and should NOT be given a game beacue they fall into a certain age bracket. If Bode, Shirley, Doughty, McGregor etcare so average then it shouldn't be too hard for these kids to take their spot.

Injuries, form and internal competition will take care of who plays and who misses out. No one has never gotten anything on a silver platter, they had to work hard for it. Even the champions of our club had to earn their games and push out others either through injuries, form etc...

These kids will get as much games and game time as they deserve. Its not as though the AFC are not prepared to play these kids. Maric got 8 games last year. A pretty decent return. Vince played in round 1 when he wasn't ready. We also gave debuts to Douglas and Porplyzia. Porplyzia played a pretty big role for us last year.

Its a long season, the kids will get their chance and when they do its up to them to grab hold of it and not let it go. Porplyzia got a chance last season and by the end of the year he got a hold of it that people just couldn't see him dropping out of the finals side.

The kids will get their chance without people wanting to demote players who bust their gut week in week out but have their limitations. No player is perfect. Even the great Roo has some flaws in his game that are still there after an unbelievable football career that will see him be a walk up into the football hall of fame.

I agree.

 

[rayven]

He's doing okay. He made the most of his time against Norwood, and the commentators praised him for many good things in the Melbourne match. Their comments were along the lines though that they think he is a bit too small to be an on-baller at AFL level,

What they did say though was that he has a good feel for the game and could operate as a small forward, virtually a Matthew Bode type role.

I think he's there really as an insurance policy for that role and will probably need either injuries or loss of form to be promoted to the mainlist and play.

Like the commentators, I feel that he would perform if given the opportunity, but that it might be hard for him to get that chance.

thank you

 

[RoosterLad]

Archard played for South actually but the rest is spot on, he could prove to be a good back-up option incase of injury.

 

[jenny61_99]

I'd have Bode AND Doughty in my starting 22. I can't fathom why people want them dropped - they both had awesome seasons last year. As has been eloquently put above (by Stiffy) why drop someone just to give a young and untried player a go? When they are ready, and fit in to the team structure and an opportunity arises, they will be given a go. But NONE of them should be start up players based on their bloody age, that's just ludicrous.

 

[Redline]

I'd have Bode AND Doughty in my starting 22. I can't fathom why people want them dropped - they both had awesome seasons last year. As has been eloquently put above (by Stiffy) why drop someone just to give a young and untried player a go? When they are ready, and fit in to the team structure and an opportunity arises, they will be given a go. But NONE of them should be start up players based on their bloody age, that's just ludicrous.

I think what people are saying is that if its a 50/50 choice or close to it the younger player should win out over players of the quality of Bode, Shirley and Doughty. The important issue is we haven't been a good enough in previous years and need to do something to take the next step, that might mean looking for an x factor within some of the younger players as opposed to going with hounest tryers.

Lets face it if we do everything the same with our selection this year compared to last taking into account the injuries we have then we will fall backwards. There is not enough improvement in that middle aged group of players so it has to come from the younger players.

 

[macca23]

Who the hell is B. C. Garland???

Best players and goalkickers from the AFC website are

ADELAIDE: 0.2, 3.11, 9.15, 14.16 (100)
MELBOURNE: 3.1, 3.2, 5.4, 6.8 (44)

BEST - Adelaide: A. McLeod, C. Knights, S. Thompson, B. Burton, B. C. Garland, Hudson, M. Mattner, R. Shirley
Melbourne: R. Ferguson, B. Green, M. Jamar, A. Davey, C. Bruce, J. White
GOALS - Adelaide: B. Burton 4, M. Knights, M. Bode 2, S. Thompson, B. Hudson, S. Welsh, S. Stevens, J. Sellar, M. Mattner
Melbourne: M. Bate, B. Miller, B. Green, C. Bruce, A. Davey, M. Jamar
INJURIES - Melbourne: M. Warnock (ankle), B. Holland (corked hip), D. Hughes (ill)
CROWD: 5471 at Blue Lake Sports Park, Mount Gambier

http://afc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=316789

 

[Alex99]

Who the hell is B. C. Garland???

Best players and goalkickers from the AFC website are

ADELAIDE: 0.2, 3.11, 9.15, 14.16 (100)
MELBOURNE: 3.1, 3.2, 5.4, 6.8 (44)

BEST - Adelaide: A. McLeod, C. Knights, S. Thompson, B. Burton, B. C. Garland, Hudson, M. Mattner, R. Shirley
Melbourne: R. Ferguson, B. Green, M. Jamar, A. Davey, C. Bruce, J. White
GOALS - Adelaide: B. Burton 4, M. Knights, M. Bode 2, S. Thompson, B. Hudson, S. Welsh, S. Stevens, J. Sellar, M. Mattner
Melbourne: M. Bate, B. Miller, B. Green, C. Bruce, A. Davey, M. Jamar
INJURIES - Melbourne: M. Warnock (ankle), B. Holland (corked hip), D. Hughes (ill)
CROWD: 5471 at Blue Lake Sports Park, Mount Gambier

http://afc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=316789

LMAO - I noticed that yesterday morning

And do we now have Matty Knights on the list?

 

[Dandy_GO]

Who the hell is B. C. Garland???

Best players and goalkickers from the AFC website are

ADELAIDE: 0.2, 3.11, 9.15, 14.16 (100)
MELBOURNE: 3.1, 3.2, 5.4, 6.8 (44)

BEST - Adelaide: A. McLeod, C. Knights, S. Thompson, B. Burton, B. C. Garland, Hudson, M. Mattner, R. Shirley
Melbourne: R. Ferguson, B. Green, M. Jamar, A. Davey, C. Bruce, J. White
GOALS - Adelaide: B. Burton 4, M. Knights, M. Bode 2, S. Thompson, B. Hudson, S. Welsh, S. Stevens, J. Sellar, M. Mattner
Melbourne: M. Bate, B. Miller, B. Green, C. Bruce, A. Davey, M. Jamar
INJURIES - Melbourne: M. Warnock (ankle), B. Holland (corked hip), D. Hughes (ill)
CROWD: 5471 at Blue Lake Sports Park, Mount Gambier

http://afc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=316789

Colin Garland plays for Melbourne. Must have had a **** game
Not sure what the B. is about though. Perhaps it stands for Big.

 

[86Crow]

The B would be for B Hudson as there is no initial infront of his name

 

[Markthirtytwo]

I think what people are saying is that if its a 50/50 choice or close to it the younger player should win out over players of the quality of Bode, Shirley and Doughty. The important issue is we haven't been a good enough in previous years and need to do something to take the next step, that might mean looking for an x factor within some of the younger players as opposed to going with hounest tryers.

Lets face it if we do everything the same with our selection this year compared to last taking into account the injuries we have then we will fall backwards. There is not enough improvement in that middle aged group of players so it has to come from the younger players.

We haven't been good enough in previous years due to bad kicking.

Nothing to do with any players ability.

 

[Dandy_GO]

The B would be for B Hudson as there is no initial infront of his name

Well there we go. Mystery solved.
Good work, gang!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Man, I CAN'T feel the LOVE here!!!!

Why do people continually have to call out players who give their heart and sould for the jumper just because they might be the type of player they don't like or they might be in a certain age bracket?!

The kids will get their chance without people wanting to demote players who bust their gut week in week out but have their limitations. No player is perfect. Even the great Roo has some flaws in his game that are still there after an unbelievable football career that will see him be a walk up into the football hall of fame.

Sorry Stiffy didn't realise this was the main criteria for getting a game of AFL

Think you have it a bit wrong mate .....you yourself have stated that these players named (although I don't put Doughty in that group) who have some limitations.

I agree that players should get games on merit not because they are young, talented and the future of the club.
I also agree that injuries should see plaenty of games given to the youngsters.

But from my perspective what I have been saying is that the players named are probably the most likely to make way (form depending off course) for the next generation.

Now I think there is more chance that Bode will have a down season than say Johncock and it's on the basis of this probability that I say theyre in danger.

Noone is saying drop these players irrespective of form for Vince or Porplyzia .....performances will dictate

 

[WaynesWorld19]

He's doing okay. He made the most of his time against Norwood, and the commentators praised him for many good things in the Melbourne match. Their comments were along the lines though that they think he is a bit too small to be an on-baller at AFL level,

What they did say though was that he has a good feel for the game and could operate as a small forward, virtually a Matthew Bode type role.

I think he's there really as an insurance policy for that role and will probably need either injuries or loss of form to be promoted to the mainlist and play.

Like the commentators, I feel that he would perform if given the opportunity, but that it might be hard for him to get that chance.

From what I have seen ...not enough tricks. Seems to get to the right position enough but has fumbled quite a bit and doesn't appear to have above average pace.

The combination of height defficient, ave pace and nothing special with his hand and foot skills would I agree mean he is more an insurance policy.

Hopefully as the year progresses we see some further development.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Starting an argument for the sake of it are we?

Beats me how you can honestly believe that Vince has overtaken Knights, Douglas and Pfeiffer on the back of 1 trial game. At this stage Vince is nowhere near the Crows best 22 IMO.

Haven't said he has overtaken Knights ....just that he's the forgotten man of this PS and media campaign ....

Crows' new big guns fire up to overwhelm Demons

Ashley Porter, Mount Gambier
March 4, 2007

ADELAIDE 0.1 3.11 9.15 14.16 (100)
MELBOURNE 3.1 3.2 5.4 6.8 (44)
GOALS: Adelaide: Burton 4, Knights 2, Bode 2, Mattner, Thompson, Welsh, Hudson, Stevens, Sellar. Melbourne: Green, Bate, Jamar, Bruce, Davey, Miller.
BEST: Adelaide: McLeod, Knights, Thompson, Burton, Garland, Hudson, Mattner, Shirley. Melbourne: Ferguson, Green, Jamar, Davey, Bruce, White.
INJURIES: Melbourne: Holland (corked hip), Warnock (ankle), Hughes (virus).
UMPIRES: Sully, Avon, Goldspink, Dey.
CROWD: About 5000 at South Gambier.


ADELAIDE took strides towards solving its ruck problems when youngsters Jonathon Griffin and Kurt Tippett shone during a NAB Challenge match against Melbourne in Mount Gambier yesterday.

The Crows won by 56 points, but it was hardly a true indication of what is to come with both sides missing so many key players.

It was a bright end to a tumultuous week for the Crows, with Simon Goodwin, who was fined $40,000 for betting on AFL games, also playing well.

"Simon had an excellent game, very good, we are very pleased with him," said Adelaide football manager John Reid. "He's had a pretty hectic week but he's a very professional bloke and went about his business very well."

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Melbourne came away feeling pleased for centre half-back Ryan Ferguson, who did exceptionally well after a disastrous injury-struck 2006 season, while its only injury concern was Ben Holland with a corked hip.

Melbourne coach Neale Daniher gave one of his assistants, Mark Riley, the main coaching duty for this contest, and post-match he said jokingly that he would probably return to shifting the cones at Sandringham's training.

The score aside, Riley was particularly pleased with the continued progress of Melbourne's young squad, and said the beauty about having an inexperienced squad was that it had put a lot of game time into players who needed it badly.

"It has been a big pre-season, and we have had a look at most of our squad now," Riley said.

"From next week the coach will settle on the team he will play in round one. There were a number of encouraging performances, including Colin Garland was good, and the action James Frawley saw standing one-out on Scott Welsh in half the field was terrific.

"The Crows were dominating us all over the place and James stood a very good player, and I thought he did very well."

Melbourne had the urge to handball, which was part of its game plan revision, but Riley conceded the Demons over-corrected too much leaving it to play "ring-a-ring-a-rosy".

"They turned it over on us, and we have to get the balance right," Riley said.

The Crows seemed bedazzled early when Melbourne broke their lines with clever handball, but as they adapted, the Demons tried to handball too much and largely went astray during the second and third terms. Between Melbourne's third goal in the 15th minute of the first term, and the fourth into time-on in the third, Adelaide kicked 8.13 to 0.3.

This was only Tippett's 20th game of football after discarding a promising basketball career in Queensland. He won quality taps and took testing marks under pressure, and while he still has a long way to go in football, it was a most encouraging performance.

Griffin also did well, and these two 200-plus-centimetre young giants provided tremendous support for Ben Hudson, who has also earned praise from coach Neil Craig for his solid return from a knee reconstruction.

A pleasing aspect for Adelaide was the impressive form of players making a return from injury, including Brett Burton (four goals), Goodwin and Bernie Vince

 

[swanfan]

Colin Garland plays for Melbourne. Must have had a **** game
Not sure what the B. is about though. Perhaps it stands for Big.

He changed guernseys at half-time. I think he wanted to play for a winning team.

 

[macca23]

Haven't said he has overtaken Knights ....just that he's the forgotten man of this PS and media campaign ....

Depends who's tyres you're pumping up WW!!

As posted on the Crows web-site:

BEST - Adelaide: A. McLeod, C. Knights, S. Thompson, B. Burton, B. C. Garland, Hudson, M. Mattner, R. Shirley

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Depends who's tyres you're pumping up WW!!

As posted on the Crows web-site:

BEST - Adelaide: A. McLeod, C. Knights, S. Thompson, B. Burton, B. C. Garland, Hudson, M. Mattner, R. Shirley

Hell even Garland performed better for us than Shirley

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Depends who's tyres you're pumping up WW!!

As posted on the Crows web-site:

BEST - Adelaide: A. McLeod, C. Knights, S. Thompson, B. Burton, B. C. Garland, Hudson, M. Mattner, R. Shirley

But seriously ......Iam an avid fan of Vince and Porplyzia whose skills, footy thinking and quick hands are wonderful to watch.

Mackay also has wonderful footy nous (it's a natural instinct and can't be taught) is the equal in terms of kicking skills but obviously has still a bit of development of his body to go.

Macca I can't help it if I lean to the skilled players ......

 

[macca23]

But seriously ......Iam an avid fan of Vince and Porplyzia whose skills, footy thinking and quick hands are wonderful to watch.

Mackay also has wonderful footy nous (it's a natural instinct and can't be taught) is the equal in terms of kicking skills but obviously has still a bit of development of his body to go.

Macca I can't help it if I lean to the skilled players ......

And there's nothing wrong with that as long as you can also appreciate that there's 22 players in a team and some of those will be hard working grunt players.

Vince is an interesting one because he was plucked from nowhere and as you say has excellent skills. Injury has prevented the lad from really strutting his stuff, while others like Porplyzia have jumped ahead of him while he has been injured. Let's hope that he can get a dcent run at it this year and show his true worth. He is capable of the magical at times.

Porplyzia reminds me a bit of Roger James - great skills and a quick thinking footy brain.

I really like the look of Mackay. Built like a whippet at this stage, he is a genuine footballer who reads the play beautifully. I have great long-term hopes for him.

So, WW, we agree on these 3.

However, while I once thought he was going to be a footballer, I don't share your often stated optimism on Jericho. Talented, but it's very difficult to find his pulse.

 

[- PC -]

Talented, but it's very difficult to find his pulse.

Its accompanied by a heart .. beat

 

[WaynesWorld19]

However, while I once thought he was going to be a footballer, I don't share your often stated optimism on Jericho. Talented, but it's very difficult to find his pulse.

IF you have the Geelong NAB GF ...for which Jericho has been roundly vilified (and justifiably BTW) .....you'll see that the whole bungling episode is encaptulated within a 15-20min section late in the game.

Up to that point he was playing pretty good footy as he had in the previous weeks of the PS comp.

Sadly though that 15-20min overshadowed his entire PS program and has cast a long shadow over his assessment on this board.

Now I'm not sure that's entirely justified and it appears the AFC hold a similar view.

The guy is 22 .....I would have said a work in progress and witha skillset that is very difficult to matchup on ...certainly worth shot....TWT

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Mathew Bode, Michael Doughty and Robert Shirley have been the barometer for good form over the last few years. When they have had very good games, so has the AFC.

Hmmm, it will be interesting to see if the other clubs have picked up on this and start tagging Doughty and Shirley rather than Goodwin, Edwards and McLeod...

 

[crows4always]

Man, I CAN'T feel the LOVE here!!!!

Why do people continually have to call out players who give their heart and sould for the jumper just because they might be the type of player they don't like or they might be in a certain age bracket?!

Here is a little fact. In a side that has 22 spots each week its practically impossible to have 22 stars. You need role players that will complement your stars and do the tough things that don't get noticed so your stars can do the flashy things that makes everyone go "ooh" and "ahh".

Its obvious that whipping boys on this board are without a miss, Bode, Shirley, Doughty and McGregor. Last year it used to be Clarke and Biglands who were added to that group.

Now these are the guys who have been integral parts of the team (at one time or another) that has made it to the 2 prelim finals in the last 2 years. This same Shirley that people LOVE to pick on has been a regular in our side for 3-4 years. He was getting a regular game even when Stenglein was still around. He must be doing something right to get a regular game AND finish top 10 in a B&F for a side that went on to play in a preliminary final.

Bode is another one that people just LOVE to bag for some reason. Sure he can burn the ball sometimes and he gets unfairly crusified because of it but FFS is there a better small forward at creating defensive pressure in the forward 50 in the AFL? This lad led our team in tackling last year from a forward pocket. He also kicked 30 odd goals and his defensive pressure has created so many other opportunities for his team mates. If he so average why does he get picked when ever fit? Because he is there to perform a certain role that is integral to the overall strategy and structure of the side. He is a little terrier that will not let that ball leave the forward 50 with ease. His pressure will make it easier for the rest of the players down the field.

Then there is the young one! Back in 2004 I have been super critical of him and his lack of courage at times but he has moved on from that to be one of the most courageous players wearing our jumper and he performs week in week out. He is Craigy's "Mr Versatility". He is getting thrown around from position to position and he keeps performing week in week out. He arguably had a career best year in 2006 and people now want to show him the door.

Yes the youngsters have to come into the calculations at one stage or another but they must EARN that spot. They WILL NOT and should NOT be given a game beacue they fall into a certain age bracket. If Bode, Shirley, Doughty, McGregor etcare so average then it shouldn't be too hard for these kids to take their spot.

Injuries, form and internal competition will take care of who plays and who misses out. No one has never gotten anything on a silver platter, they had to work hard for it. Even the champions of our club had to earn their games and push out others either through injuries, form etc...

These kids will get as much games and game time as they deserve. Its not as though the AFC are not prepared to play these kids. Maric got 8 games last year. A pretty decent return. Vince played in round 1 when he wasn't ready. We also gave debuts to Douglas and Porplyzia. Porplyzia played a pretty big role for us last year.

Its a long season, the kids will get their chance and when they do its up to them to grab hold of it and not let it go. Porplyzia got a chance last season and by the end of the year he got a hold of it that people just couldn't see him dropping out of the finals side.

The kids will get their chance without people wanting to demote players who bust their gut week in week out but have their limitations. No player is perfect. Even the great Roo has some flaws in his game that are still there after an unbelievable football career that will see him be a walk up into the football hall of fame.

Thank you Stiffy_18 for putting in to words similar to my thoughts ,I get so sick of the negativity on this board at times running down players the have really done their jobs in getting us to the prelimary final over the last couple of years.
Well done.

 

[macca23]

^^^^^^^

Totally agree.

Quality post by the Stiffmeister, reflecting the feelings of those posters on this board who don't automatically want to chuck out the non-glamorous hard workers in the team for some newbie who hasn't yet earned it.

As Stiffy said, if they're good enough the young blokes will get their chance by forcing the selectors to pick them by their form or grab their chance when injuries allow.

So it has been, and so it always will be.