Cummins Overrated?

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DaRick

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Think that's Rabada mate, a couple of years younger than Cummins as well. :openmouth:

Needs to improve that average of 30 away from South Africa if he wants to be considered in those echelons. I'd be backing him in to do it to be fair.

I don't want to be that guy, but the problem I have with Rabada is not his talent - it's more that he reminds me awfully of Waqar Younis.

Basically, both were pressganged into Test cricket at a very young age, before their bodies could fully develop. Both were aggressive express pace bowlers, both could be erratic but also run through lineups when running hot because of their mastery of swing, particularly reverse swing, making their yorkers particularly dangerous. However, both also had dangerous bouncers. However, because both were quite heavily bowled at young ages, they both developed back injuries which eventually blunted their pace and effectiveness, despite still having their good days.

To this end, I've noticed that Rabada has not been quite as effective since he developed an injury in 2018, after he tore it up against us. Sure, he did run through the West Indies recently, but their batting lineup has very little depth. Mind, he could completely revert to his old self and prove me wrong, but I think more injuries await.

TLDR; Waqar was an early bloomer and I think that Rabada might be as well.
 

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DaRick

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RE Cummins, yes this is the thread that keeps on giving.

Speaking of which, ironically enough despite the comparisons, he's basically the anti-Rabada. Injuries stopped him from playing much cricket before 23-24, but ironically that might have helped him in the long run, because it allowed his body to develop more fully without being placed under constant strain.

Unlike Rabada, he rarely runs through lineups, not just because of the ample competition, but because he's neither a confidence bowler like Johnson nor does he rely on substantial movement - unlike Rabada, he doesn't generate much swing. However, he is far more accurate and consistent than Rabada, approximating McGrath in that regard, while his action is awkward like Johnson's. Like Johnson, he can be hard to sight for a batsman and can get the ball to rear up unexpectedly off a length.

Also, he has incredible persistence. If you manage to latch on to Rabada or Johnson, you can score quite a bit against them because they can be erratic or lose confidence. Cummins is very difficult to latch on to, because even if you do hit him for a few boundaries he keeps coming at you. That must be both discouraging and mentally exhausting for batsmen, and so it's no surprise that he quite often breaks a partnership or eliminates the star batsman.

I'm struggling to think of a direct analogue for Cummins. Perhaps late-era Courtney Walsh comes close - both were incredibly persistent, accurate and could get the ball to rear up off a length. Cummins is somewhat quicker, making him more likely to generate something on flat decks, but Walsh (due to paucity of competition) was more likely to run through a lineup, had a bit more variation, and had a phenomenal injury record.
 

Dipper

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I don't want to be that guy, but the problem I have with Rabada is not his talent - it's more that he reminds me awfully of Waqar Younis.

Basically, both were pressganged into Test cricket at a very young age, before their bodies could fully develop. Both were aggressive express pace bowlers, both could be erratic but also run through lineups when running hot because of their mastery of swing, particularly reverse swing, making their yorkers particularly dangerous. However, both also had dangerous bouncers. However, because both were quite heavily bowled at young ages, they both developed back injuries which eventually blunted their pace and effectiveness, despite still having their good days.

To this end, I've noticed that Rabada has not been quite as effective since he developed an injury in 2018, after he tore it up against us. Sure, he did run through the West Indies recently, but their batting lineup has very little depth. Mind, he could completely revert to his old self and prove me wrong, but I think more injuries await.

TLDR; Waqar was an early bloomer and I think that Rabada might be as well.
There was always a bit of a question regarding Waqar's true age...obviously a suspicion that he was older than his given age. I've no idea whether it was true but it was certainly mentioned from time to time.

Sent from my SM-A326B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

DaRick

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There was always a bit of a question regarding Waqar's true age...obviously a suspicion that he was older than his given age. I've no idea whether it was true but it was certainly mentioned from time to time.

Sent from my SM-A326B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Waqar's 'official' age was 18 on debut, but I've always suspected it was more like 20.

It would make more sense, given Rabada's debut was at that age and Waqar being a pale shadow of himself by the early 2000's.

You never really know in Pakistan, though - Wasim Akram was apparently actually a teenager when he first appeared on the international scene.
 

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to1994

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4-130 odd is actually a pretty below par match for this champion.

I think it showed his character that even when he's off colour with the ball he'll still find a way to make it happen and produce one of his best ever overs.

It's in contrast to some bowlers who look a bit off and you know you can basically write them off for the rest of the innings.
 

DaRick

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That's the thing about Pat Cummins - even bad Cummins is merely less effective than usual, whereas bad Starc is just pure crap.
 

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