Cummins Overrated?

[The Passenger]

Johnson's record in big tests and indeed big series sets him apart from Starc. For now, anyway.

It's test series against England, India and South Africa that really put a (current day) player on the map in terms of their position in the Australian public. So far Starc has had two good Ashes series in Australia.

But you could have said that about Johnson prior to 13/14, with only some good performances against South Africa in 08/09 to really hang his hat on to that point.

Starc is now hitting the age Johnson was for 13/14 and if Starc has something even just resembling Johnson's 12 months around that time he'll likely end up with a better career record than Johnson.

For all of the frustrations we have seen with Starc over the years, some of his detractors have been way over the top in their criticism.

 

[BarneyBent]

Johnson's record in big tests and indeed big series sets him apart from Starc. For now, anyway.

It's test series against England, India and South Africa that really put a (current day) player on the map in terms of their position in the Australian public. So far Starc has had two good Ashes series in Australia.

But you could have said that about Johnson prior to 13/14, with only some good performances against South Africa in 08/09 to really hang his hat on to that point.

Starc is now hitting the age Johnson was for 13/14 and if Starc has something even just resembling Johnson's 12 months around that time he'll likely end up with a better career record than Johnson.

For all of the frustrations we have seen with Starc over the years, some of his detractors have been way over the top in their criticism.

100%. And some criticism of Starc is justified - yes, he can be loose at times. Yes, his bad is quite bad and that's frustrating to watch. But when packaged with his insane strike power, especially his ability to take early wickets, that just means he's not an all-time great, he's just an very good, and quite unique, bowler.

So yeah, be frustrated at times, that comes with the territory, but we don't need every player to be a McGrath clone, or even a Harris clone.

 

[Power Raid]

So yeah, be frustrated at times, that comes with the territory, but we don't need every player to be a McGrath clone, or even a Harris clone.

I wish we got to see more of Harris

He could have gone down as one of the greats of all time

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I wish we got to see more of Harris

He could have gone down as one of the greats of all time

Shame he’s lost his spot to Ussie.

 

[KBLT]

Shame he’s lost his spot to Ussie.

Probably would have done better opening than the current Harris iteration.

 

[DaRick]

I wish we got to see more of Harris

He could have gone down as one of the greats of all time

Harris peaking a few years earlier would have been terrific, but in reality he was a late bloomer who added pace and skill to his game as he got older. It would have been nice if his body didn't let him down so much, but he did well to get to 35 before calling it quits.

It's Pattinson's loss that I truly mourn. Early Pattinson could swing the ball at express pace, could use reverse swing and had a dangerous cutter/yorker/bouncer. However, he was injured so often that we only got to see a fraction of what could have been.

 

[Power Raid]

Harris peaking a few years earlier would have been terrific, but in reality he was a late bloomer who added pace and skill to his game as he got older. It would have been nice if his body didn't let him down so much, but he did well to get to 35 before calling it quits.

It's Pattinson's loss that I truly mourn. Early Pattinson could swing the ball at express pace, could use reverse swing and had a dangerous cutter/yorker/bouncer. However, he was injured so often that we only got to see a fraction of what could have been.

Perfect analysis

 

[Leeda]

I wish we got to see more of Harris

He could have gone down as one of the greats of all time

Technically he could have gone up in the esteem of many…

 

[Marcel Proust]

 

[footyfan1978]

Harris peaking a few years earlier would have been terrific, but in reality he was a late bloomer who added pace and skill to his game as he got older. It would have been nice if his body didn't let him down so much, but he did well to get to 35 before calling it quits.

It's Pattinson's loss that I truly mourn. Early Pattinson could swing the ball at express pace, could use reverse swing and had a dangerous cutter/yorker/bouncer. However, he was injured so often that we only got to see a fraction of what could have been.

Spot on. A great loss.
Bruce Reid and Pattinson are two quality bowlers we never really got to see them at their best and only had a small peek of what they both capable of.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

View attachment 1352635

Jeez that’s a handy list. Marshall and Ambrose would be nearly the first 2 quicks you’d pick for a World XI of the past 50 years. And Garner is something of an overlooked superstar. Big Bird was a magnificent fast bowler.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Spot on. A great loss.
Bruce Reid and Pattinson are two quality bowlers we never really got to see them at their best and only had a small peek of what they both capable of.

I’d throw Terry Alderman in there too. Certainly as good a bowler in English conditions as has ever played the game. Lost a big chunk of his career prime after busting his shoulder tackling a pitch invader and had to remodel his bowling action afterwards. Also lost a couple of years after being banned for touring South Africa.

Graham Gooch’s answering machine message at the time allegedly said “sorry I am out at the moment, probably LBW to Alderman.”

 

[Power Raid]

Jeez that’s a handy list. Marshall and Ambrose would be nearly the first 2 quicks you’d pick for a World XI of the past 50 years. And Garner is something of an overlooked superstar. Big Bird was a magnificent fast bowler.

Those WI quicks were amazing........frighteningly good

 

[Gethelred]

Has moved up to number 20 on all tie wickt list for Australia

View attachment 1312801

Kind of puts into context just how good Grimmett was. Played less tests than everyone on that list for 221 wickets, with Cummins having only played a test more for 185.

 

[The Passenger]

Grimmett is such a fascinating cricketer.

Such a strange action, even taking into account how different bowling actions and bashing techniques were prior to WW2.

Kiwi born, test debut at 33, bowled in a cap. 44 wickets is a series against (an admittedly weak) South Africa at age 43 and never played again due to a run in with Bradman. Took 49 wickets in six shield games at age 48.

 

[corbies]

Grimmett is such a fascinating cricketer.

Such a strange action, even taking into account how different bowling actions and bashing techniques were prior to WW2.

Kiwi born, test debut at 33, bowled in a cap. 44 wickets is a series against (an admittedly weak) South Africa at age 43 and never played again due to a run in with Bradman. Took 49 wickets in six shield games at age 48.



View attachment 1352736

As The Grade Cricketer say with that action he'd play 3rd grade today.

 

[footyfan1978]

I’d throw Terry Alderman in there too. Certainly as good a bowler in English conditions as has ever played the game. Lost a big chunk of his career prime after busting his shoulder tackling a pitch invader and had to remodel his bowling action afterwards. Also lost a couple of years after being banned for touring South Africa.

Graham Gooch’s answering machine message at the time allegedly said “sorry I am out at the moment, probably LBW to Alderman.”

Yeah, but we actually got to see Alderman at his best.
We did not with Pattinson and Reid. We only had small glimpse into their possible potential.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Grimmett is such a fascinating cricketer.

Such a strange action, even taking into account how different bowling actions and bashing techniques were prior to WW2.

I reckon he could have got more out of his action if his pants weren't sitting slightly under his armpits

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Pat Cummins bowling on absolute roads in Pakistan, still has 9 wickets @27.

 

[Blue1980]

Johnson's record in big tests and indeed big series sets him apart from Starc. For now, anyway.

It's test series against England, India and South Africa that really put a (current day) player on the map in terms of their position in the Australian public. So far Starc has had two good Ashes series in Australia.

But you could have said that about Johnson prior to 13/14, with only some good performances against South Africa in 08/09 to really hang his hat on to that point.

Starc is now hitting the age Johnson was for 13/14 and if Starc has something even just resembling Johnson's 12 months around that time he'll likely end up with a better career record than Johnson.

For all of the frustrations we have seen with Starc over the years, some of his detractors have been way over the top in their criticism.

Starc never as dominant as Johnson at his best but never as wayward at his worst either.

 

[Blue1980]

Spot on. A great loss.
Bruce Reid and Pattinson are two quality bowlers we never really got to see them at their best and only had a small peek of what they both capable of.

Bruce Reid a case of being over bowled, as much as people decry sports science in some circles, fast bowlers generally are having far longer careers nowadays than 20, 30, 40 years ago.

I checked Reid’s last test, and in West Indies first innings he bowled 37 overs out of 123, more than any spinner or other paceman. That would never happen nowadays, especially with someone of his injury history.

 

[Blue1980]

I’d throw Terry Alderman in there too. Certainly as good a bowler in English conditions as has ever played the game. Lost a big chunk of his career prime after busting his shoulder tackling a pitch invader and had to remodel his bowling action afterwards. Also lost a couple of years after being banned for touring South Africa.

Graham Gooch’s answering machine message at the time allegedly said “sorry I am out at the moment, probably LBW to Alderman.” [emoji23]

But alderman didn’t rely on pace so much, and even before the injury he was very much an English specialist (though still good in Australia).

He also went to South Africa on rebel tours.

 

[big_e]

Bruce Reid a case of being over bowled, as much as people decry sports science in some circles, fast bowlers generally are having far longer careers nowadays than 20, 30, 40 years ago.

I checked Reid’s last test, and in West Indies first innings he bowled 37 overs out of 123, more than any spinner or other paceman. That would never happen nowadays, especially with someone of his injury history.

Pat Cummins bowled 39 overs in his first innings back after six years out with injuries. Bowled another 30 in the first innings a week later.

FWIW, Hazlewood bowled 44 overs and 25 in those same innings.

 

[Neese]

I used to love watching Bruce Reid bowl.

 

[Power Raid]

Grimmett is such a fascinating cricketer.

Such a strange action, even taking into account how different bowling actions and bashing techniques were prior to WW2.

Kiwi born, test debut at 33, bowled in a cap. 44 wickets is a series against (an admittedly weak) South Africa at age 43 and never played again due to a run in with Bradman. Took 49 wickets in six shield games at age 48.



View attachment 1352736

that action!

I'd love to see more but that looked terrible..........but the stats suggest something very different