Vic Daniel Andrews and the Statue of Limitations

[Sttew]

So when does the Allan thread start?

When she makes her first official decision

 

[The Punter]

Times have changed, mate. Your end of things decided via Abbott that bipartisanship's a thing of the past, and you wonder why Andrews might be so pugnacious when being upbraided by the Vic Libs?

That you don't like the answer and are wishing for a rosier past isn't really my problem, conservative.

Even in calling me something I am not, you provided me with more than Andrews did or Allan just did.

Governments set the tone. Abbott only set the tone when he didn't change his tone once elected.

If you want better, you have to do it yourself. There's nothing written about having to abide by the standard another has set other than political expediency. But things won't improve until someone decides it has to. At least Albo has tried.

 

[Gethelred]

Even in calling me something I am not...

Simply ruminating on the irony of you longing for a better past.

... you provided me with more than Andrews did or Allan just did.

Governments set the tone. Abbott only set the tone when he didn't change his tone once elected.

If you want better, you have to do it yourself. There's nothing written about having to abide by the standard another has set other than political expediency. But things won't improve until someone decides it has to.

There's been any number of studies around game theory and trust. You cannot refuse to trust, because ultimately that hurts you more than it hurts everyone else; everyone else knows you're untrustworthy and untrusting, so they leave you alone. But if you trust without fault, the system advantages those who will seek to take advantage; you can see that fully manifest in US politics, with the Dems 'they go low, we go high' mantra. So the practical way to behave is to trust, but if someone betrays that trust cease treating them as an honest broker.

So, if the Liberal party in any context wants to be treated as though they're honest and stand for integrity, they're going to have to be the ones to mend the divide. You know, seeing as they're the ones that broke the thing initially.

At least Albo has tried.

Not to mend fences, he hasn't.

 

[The Punter]

Simply ruminating on the irony of you longing for a better past.

There's been any number of studies around game theory and trust. You cannot refuse to trust, because ultimately that hurts you more than it hurts everyone else; everyone else knows you're untrustworthy and untrusting, so they leave you alone. But if you trust without fault, the system advantages those who will seek to take advantage; you can see that fully manifest in US politics, with the Dems 'they go low, we go high' mantra. So the practical way to behave is to trust, but if someone betrays that trust cease treating them as an honest broker.

So, if the Liberal party in any context wants to be treated as though they're honest and stand for integrity, they're going to have to be the ones to mend the divide. You know, seeing as they're the ones that broke the thing initially.

Not to mend fences, he hasn't.

Just out of morbid curiosity, is there a way to mend that divide, as you call it, when the followings things are true:

• you're in opposition
• there are no circumstances under which the government will engage with you

I can fully understand the political calculus for treating the opposition why they do, Scomo did it as well. I personally would just like to see the tone of our political debate raised, and the government is best placed to do this effectively. However, it may come as a cost because the current Victorian Government does things that deserve criticism.

 

[Gethelred]

Just out of morbid curiosity, is there a way to mend that divide, as you call it, when the followings things are true:

• you're in opposition
• there are no circumstances under which the government will engage with you

It's a bit of a pisser when I ****ing told you what it'd take around 12 months ago, when we discussed the role of opposition in ideal government, only to have you fly off the handle.

You work with the sitting government to produce the best results for the people you serve. If that means opposition, it means opposition; if that means bipartisanship, it means bipartisanship. It means choosing not to play politics with the people you want to govern.

Is this a long road back to power? Absolutely it is.

I can fully understand the political calculus for treating the opposition why they do, Scomo did it as well. I personally would just like to see the tone of our political debate raised, and the government is best placed to do this effectively. However, it may come as a cost because the current Victorian Government does things that deserve criticism.

I wonder if you fully appreciate the irony of behaving as the tone police given who else is on your side of politics.

You can only control your own behaviour, Punter. Perhaps if the Liberal party started their quest for an improved political landscape in Australia (let alone Victoria) they could do so by ensuring that they cleaned their own bedroom before castigating the dirty socks across the aisle.

 

[Crankyhawk]

It's a bit of a pisser when I ******* told you what it'd take around 12 months ago, when we discussed the role of opposition in ideal government, only to have you fly off the handle.

You work with the sitting government to produce the best results for the people you serve. If that means opposition, it means opposition; if that means bipartisanship, it means bipartisanship. It means choosing not to play politics with the people you want to govern.

Is this a long road back to power? Absolutely it is.

I wonder if you fully appreciate the irony of behaving as the tone police given who else is on your side of politics.

You can only control your own behaviour, Punter. Perhaps if the Liberal party started their quest for an improved political landscape in Australia (let alone Victoria) they could do so by ensuring that they cleaned their own bedroom before castigating the dirty socks across the aisle.

well tbf The Punter can only control Punter's behaviour, and he does seem to represent the improved tone that he seeks (though will admit I haven't reviewed his posting history pre Albo's election) have certainly seen him complain about the infiltration of the religious whackjob types in the Vic LNP.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

well tbf The Punter can only control Punter's behaviour, and he does seem to represent the improved tone that he seeks (though will admit I haven't reviewed his posting history pre Albo's election) have certainly seen him complain about the infiltration of the religious whackjob types in the Vic LNP.

To remain in character, Punter would need to be much more tolerant of those religious whackjob types.

 

[Gralin]

well tbf The Punter can only control Punter's behaviour, and he does seem to represent the improved tone that he seeks (though will admit I haven't reviewed his posting history pre Albo's election) have certainly seen him complain about the infiltration of the religious whackjob types in the Vic LNP.

he'd rather talk about the tone of the government than the morals of his party members

I wonder why that would be?

 

[The Punter]

he'd rather talk about the tone of the government than the morals of his party members

I wonder why that would be?

Because I take that discussion internally. But as Crankyhawk so astutely points out, I have spoken broadly on the topic on this board.

Also, triple mod pile-on!

TL; DR: we should expect more of governments. If those who enforce the rules around here are happy, I am also happy to move on.

 

[Gralin]

Because I take that discussion internally. But as Crankyhawk so astutely points out, I have spoken broadly on the topic on this board.

how fortunate for you that you keep that internal

Also, triple mod pile-on!

TL; DR: we should expect more of governments. If those who enforce the rules around here are happy, I am also happy to move on.

If you're only going to tone police one side yeah best to move on I reckon

 

[Not Important]

Poor Queenslanders, Dan Andrews is the only good thing they’ve got going for them

yet you still live in vic despite saying you were leaving. just another whining pom.

 

[Not Important]

i see the perennial failure little matty guy is back in shadow cabinet. says so much about the oppo dunnit?

 

[Gethelred]

well tbf The Punter can only control Punter's behaviour, and he does seem to represent the improved tone that he seeks (though will admit I haven't reviewed his posting history pre Albo's election) have certainly seen him complain about the infiltration of the religious whackjob types in the Vic LNP.

But that's rather the problem: he gets to be critical of the government in ways he's unwilling (publicly) to be critical of his own party.

Have a look at what I stated the form of ideal government was in the post you quoted, and you'll see why I might take issue with that. He's complaining about the tone of politics without (in my opinion) not doing what it would take to actually improve it.

Because I take that discussion internally.

And that's the problem. You're unwilling to publicly disapprove of the actions of your own party; as such, there's no change happening at your end. You get to complain about the tone of the sitting government while others in your party take their cheap shots wherever they like.

Why should you get to have your cake and eat it?

TL; DR: we should expect more of governments.

Agreed.

If those who enforce the rules around here are happy, I am also happy to move on.

Poor, persecuted little you.

 

[The Punter]

how fortunate for you that you keep that internal

If you're only going to tone police one side yeah best to move on I reckon

Understand that just because you don't hear each way criticism from me here doesn't mean I don't convey each way criticism. Consider it the tree falling in the forest you aren't in.

 

[The Punter]

That you don't like the answer and are wishing for a rosier past isn't really my problem, conservative.

Poor, persecuted little you.

Everyone, the law. To be fair, at least you ***-out your swear words, unlike other mods in this thread.

 

[Gethelred]

Everyone, the law. To be fair, at least you ***-out your swear words, unlike other mods in this thread.

It's rather predictable that you complain about censorship when you're not actually being censored.

Alas.

 

[The Punter]

It's rather predictable that you complain about censorship when you're not actually being censored.

Alas.

I wasn't complaining about censorship at all. I was complaining about a lack of civility, consistent with other remarks about those with actual authority. I think I've only been "censored" on here once, and never for name calling or swearing.

 

[Gethelred]

I wasn't complaining about censorship at all. I was complaining about a lack of civility, consistent with other remarks about those with actual authority. I think I've only been "censored" on here once, and never for name calling or swearing.

Withdrawing from a conversation due to interacting with more moderators than you're comfortable with is rather suggestive.

 

[MarcMaverick]

It's rather predictable that you complain about censorship when you're not actually being censored.

Alas.

TBF you can't say the F word without an asterisk or two e.g.

 

[Gralin]

Understand that just because you don't hear each way criticism from me here doesn't mean I don't convey each way criticism. Consider it the tree falling in the forest you aren't in.

again its a double standard
you're tone policing your opponents in a way you won't for your allies, and complaining about the standard of discourse while doing it

I wasn't complaining about censorship at all. I was complaining about a lack of civility, consistent with other remarks about those with actual authority. I think I've only been "censored" on here once, and never for name calling or swearing.

firstly I don't give a **** about civility politics, it's a smokescreen to discredit positions based on manners instead of the content

it's been used to dismiss minority groups who respond with emotion to actions that directly impact them

its been used against women with the "emotional/hysterical" tag

civility politics and tone policing can eat shit


secondly I let the swear filter do its job in here

 

[The Punter]

again its a double standard
you're tone policing your opponents in a way you won't for your allies, and complaining about the standard of discourse while doing it


firstly I don't give a * about civility politics, it's a smokescreen to discredit positions based on manners instead of the content

it's been used to dismiss minority groups who respond with emotion to actions that directly impact them

its been used against women with the "emotional/hysterical" tag

civility politics and tone policing can eat s**t


secondly I let the swear filter do its job in here

This gets you the tag "Super" moderator.

 

[The Punter]

Withdrawing from a conversation due to interacting with more moderators than you're comfortable with is rather suggestive.

If we've learned anything, it's you are going to think what you are going to think. My apologies for saying one thing then not doing it. This time I will move on.

 

[Gralin]

This gets you the tag "Super" moderator.

no it really doesn't

but I know you don't actually want to engage with the content of my posts so we'll leave it there

 

[Gethelred]

This gets you the tag "Super" moderator.

Just to be clear, your method for supposedly improving the tone of political discourse is to attack the poster arguing with you on the basis of their being a moderator instead of addressing the content of their posting?

Gee. I can hardly see where things went awry.

 

[Sttew]

i see the perennial failure little matty guy is back in shadow cabinet. says so much about the oppo dunnit?

Bit rich considering our new premier was the Minister responsible for delivery of the Commonwealth Games and the Minister responsible for delivery of Infrastructure which has seen costs blow out by nearly $30 billion.