Vic Daniel Andrews and the Statue of Limitations

[Gralin]

How boring is Vic politics now that he’s gone.

Looking forward to his comeback in three years once he’s refreshed and ‘right to go’

so boring that people are posting new stuff in this thread and not posting in the new thread

 

[Sttew]

so boring that people are posting new stuff in this thread and not posting in the new thread

There’s a new thread on Dan?

 

[Gralin]

There’s a new thread on Dan?

no there is a new thread for the government

 

[evolved2]

Hopefully the federal government implements a distance-based road charge for EVs if the states aren't entitled to collect the revenue directly. I have never seen an argument for EV owners to receive subsidies for their choice (i.e. middle class welfare by any other name) that doesn't feature at it's core "I want free s**t". Money would be better spent on the bus network so people don't have to drive to the train station.

I'll give it a shot.

In the same way alcohol and tobacco are heavily taxed for their long-term impact on our health system, the voting public want our governments to punish/support choice of transport based on environmental impact.

EV's fueled by a renewable electricity source is about as good as it gets in terms of environmental impact for cars. While I don't own an EV, I'm happy to subsidise those who do.

 

[evolved2]

How boring is Vic politics now that he’s gone.

Looking forward to his comeback in three years once he’s refreshed and ‘right to go’

Which team will draft him in? One Nation has form in that area.

 

[peetoo]

I'll give it a shot.

In the same way alcohol and tobacco are heavily taxed for their long-term impact on our health system, the voting public want our governments to punish/support choice of transport based on environmental impact.

EV's fueled by a renewable electricity source is about as good as it gets in terms of environmental impact for cars. While I don't own an EV, I'm happy to subsidise those who do.

If an ev and an ic car is in someone’s driveway, not being used, which is environmentally the most ‘friendly’

A the one which cost lees environmentally to make, or the one which is the oldest, or a combination of the two

So obviously the ev could be better in use, but how much use would be needed to make it worthwhile

 

[evolved2]

If an ev and an ic car is in someone’s driveway, not being used, which is environmentally the most ‘friendly’

A the one which cost lees environmentally to make, or the one which is the oldest, or a combination of the two

So obviously the ev could be better in use, but how much use would be needed to make it worthwhile

Individual scenarios like those you've proposed don't make a dent in my argument.

The end goal should be to have renewable energy sources fuel all transportation. I'm happy to see my taxes fund that goal.

 

[peetoo]

Individual scenarios like those you've proposed don't make a dent in my argument.

The end goal should be to have renewable energy sources fuel all transportation. I'm happy to see my taxes fund that goal.

I just think other areas of power use are a better use of subsidies.

Vehicles which do a long working day for example.

Appaerently price point will become not much different to an IC car soon anyway. It’s just a money grab
By car makers

 

[Gralin]

The point of usage taxes is to cover wear and tear on roads, which is meant to be the purpose of fuel excise

Obviously EVs don't pay fuel excise but do cause wear and tear on roads.

The smart play would be to remove fuel excise and put everything on a usage tax

 

[Crankyhawk]

The point of usage taxes is to cover wear and tear on roads, which is meant to be the purpose of fuel excise

Obviously EVs don't pay fuel excise but do cause wear and tear on roads.

The smart play would be to remove fuel excise and put everything on a usage tax

Odd position to advocate in that those who have been forced to suburbs would pay more (ie a usage tax if based on distance) would disproportionately affect lower wealth and income people.

Edit I would do it by increasing registration cost

 

[peetoo]

Odd position to advocate in that those who have been forced to suburbs would pay more (ie a usage tax if based on distance) would disproportionately affect lower wealth and income people.

Edit I would do it by increasing registration cost

As with congestion charges. If there was a more direct link though, would we be having the pothole discussions so often

If it was gps based, charges could be cheaper on outer roads, and country roads, where they rack up massive distances and there’s not much PT alternative

 

[Gralin]

Odd position to advocate in that those who have been forced to suburbs would pay more (ie a usage tax if based on distance) would disproportionately affect lower wealth and income people.

Edit I would do it by increasing registration cost

Improving access to public transport would help, rego doesn't work like fuel excise either

 

[Crankyhawk]

Improving access to public transport would help, rego doesn't work like fuel excise either

A flat fee doesn’t disadvantage those forced into long commute while those with existing public transport (thinking inner suburbs) can really think about whether they need car (as they already have options while outer suburbs don’t and it is less likely that transport will get built because cost)

 

[Gralin]

A flat fee doesn’t disadvantage those forced into long commute while those with existing public transport (thinking inner suburbs) can really think about whether they need car (as they already have options while outer suburbs don’t and it is less likely that transport will get built because cost)

again the point of the EV tax was to be similar to the fuel excise and people driving EVs aren't poor

the point is to cover the costs of using the roads

as long as there is a fuel excise and no equivalent for EV then people who can afford an EV are putting less money into road maintenance than those that can't

making rego more expensive is also not going to help people with less money

you want the outer suburbs issue fixed advocate for fixing PT not making it cheaper to drive your own car

 

[peetoo]

A flat fee doesn’t disadvantage those forced into long commute while those with existing public transport (thinking inner suburbs) can really think about whether they need car (as they already have options while outer suburbs don’t and it is less likely that transport will get built because cost)

Anyone live in inner suburbs and drive to outer suburbs to work?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Anyone live in inner suburbs and drive to outer suburbs to work?

Those people would still cop it under Gralins usage plan (due to distance travelled).

 

[Crankyhawk]

again the point of the EV tax was to be similar to the fuel excise and people driving EVs aren't poor

the point is to cover the costs of using the roads

as long as there is a fuel excise and no equivalent for EV then people who can afford an EV are putting less money into road maintenance than those that can't

making rego more expensive is also not going to help people with less money

you want the outer suburbs issue fixed advocate for fixing PT not making it cheaper to drive your own car

I’m realistic enough to know I have **** all chance f better transport. But I can advocate for higher taxes as more realistic. And I cope better if others suffer too.

 

[peetoo]

If the vic govt collect the tax, more likely it’s spent on roads? In Victoria I mean not some private mine acces in qld?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I'll give it a shot.

In the same way alcohol and tobacco are heavily taxed for their long-term impact on our health system, the voting public want our governments to punish/support choice of transport based on environmental impact.

EV's fueled by a renewable electricity source is about as good as it gets in terms of environmental impact for cars. While I don't own an EV, I'm happy to subsidise those who do.

Sure, but if they want to punish/support choice of transport based on environmental impact, even just limiting the analysis to carbon footprint, then the better candidate to support is public transport. If you expand the analysis to consider things like land use, public safety etc. then EVs are not even in the conversation.

 

[The Punter]

Eat your vegetables

 

[peetoo]

If the vic govt collect the tax, more likely it’s spent on roads? In Victoria I mean not some private mine acces in qld?

Was thinking a little more about this. It’s about funds to maintain and improve roads, or the balance between private and public transport investment

State govt imposing a straight user pays charge to maintain infrastructure? Illegal

State govt allowing trans urban to extend a boot charge for a decade or so longer, with a quid pro quo of trans urban paying for new roads? No problem

I bet the two people wh went to high court think they are fighting for peoples rights? No they are locking in privatised roads
I just don’t see fed govt working a user pays per km charge to replace dwindling fuel excise revenue

Also makes a mockery of commentary that Dan ran a leftist government. A couple of injecting rooms doesn’t deny the underlying approach

 

[peetoo]

Sure, but if they want to punish/support choice of transport based on environmental impact, even just limiting the analysis to carbon footprint, then the better candidate to support is public transport. If you expand the analysis to consider things like land use, public safety etc. then EVs are not even in the conversation.

When councils run thir fleets and contracted services like refuse collection wit non polluting vehicles, I’ll stop rolleying when they give lectures about environment. There’s a street sweeper truck in boroondara you can smell the fumes before you even see or hear it.

These vehicles might run 50 hours a week not 50 minutes like my car. Investment for environment clearly needs to be prioritised here, and organisations have many more funding options than a private owner

 

[peetoo]

This makes more sense

Uber’s surge plan to bring 10,000 electric vehicles into Australia

The ride-share giant is partnering with local distributor EVDirect on an emissions-free option for businesses.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Gralin]

Was thinking a little more about this. It’s about funds to maintain and improve roads, or the balance between private and public transport investment

State govt imposing a straight user pays charge to maintain infrastructure? Illegal

State govt allowing trans urban to extend a boot charge for a decade or so longer, with a quid pro quo of trans urban paying for new roads? No problem

I bet the two people wh went to high court think they are fighting for peoples rights? No they are locking in privatised roads
I just don’t see fed govt working a user pays per km charge to replace dwindling fuel excise revenue

Also makes a mockery of commentary that Dan ran a leftist government. A couple of injecting rooms doesn’t deny the underlying approach

Dan never claimed to be left wing just progressive meaning change but not saying what kind of change

he did a lot of changes that increased police powers and authoritarianism in the state which dickheads wrongly called communism because of the word progress and the fact he was labor

he was as neoliberal as pretty much anyone

the leasing off of state assets, his last acts pretty much as premier being to sign away a shit ton of public land into long term leases for developer benefits is the kind of policy the libs would be proud of if it wasn't for the fact they kept some social housing requirements

like they chuck these little bones in and spruik that in the headline like they're doing large good when they're largely maintaining the status quo/making things worse

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Don't think he'll come back to Vic politics. If Labor gets smashed in the 2025 federal election, expect Labor representatives make approaches to Daniel Andrews to see if he would make a tilt at a federal seat in Victoria, with an eye to having Andrews replace Anthony Albanese as the new Labor leader.

Why on earth would Labor get smashed in 2025?