Player Watch Darcy Fogarty

[Mego Red]

Danger?imean we got someone we delisted so for me that means nothing. In regards to Fog. While he is not playing we have nothing to show for the CC trade where he is killing it

Danger?

We're the only club in the history of the league who has ever gotten more than compo for a restricted free agent. A first, a 2nd and a player was a pretty good haul, considering the only leverage we had was Geelong wanted to give another year to Bartel and wanting to sign Zac Smith. Frankly, they ShOULD have just outbid us on Dangerfield and kept the picks, which they easily could have done.

 

[Mego Red]

We also got Milera from that trade, and would have gotten a lesser pick if Geelong didn't trade with us but we were always going to match their $800K offer.

Except we couldn't have matched their $1.3m offer - which they would have done if we overplayed our hand.

 

[Bicks]

Walker has ultimately been disappointing as a key forward, and we're constantly criticising him for his lack of ability to outmark opponents, particularly in contested pack situations. How is replacing Walker with a guy who appears to largely have the same deficiencies going to change anything?

You don't watch any SANFL pretty obviously would be the only deduction people THAT DO regularly watch the Crows SANFL team play could make.

Darcy's contested marking and overhead marking ability is beyond question for anyone THAT HAS been watching him in both the SANFL and AFL since joining our club. Darcy certainly still has a few areas he needs to work on , largely his tank being the prime area along with getting to the right spots to get more consistently involved in play.

Contested/Overhead marking is one area where he is already more than adequate and no doubt will only get better with more experience.

 

[ABAB]

Except we couldn't have matched their $1.3m offer - which they would have done if we overplayed our hand.

I thought Geelong don't pay player more than their captain, it would have been very interesting if we didn't do the trade and matched that $800K.

 

[Southerntakeover]

We'd have been better off making Geelong pay the full salary cap amount and not have money left to recruit and strengthen each year, as opposed to receiving Dean Gore.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

We'd have been better off making Geelong pay the full salary cap amount and not have money left to recruit and strengthen each year, as opposed to receiving Dean Gore.

& missing out on Milera.

 

[Southerntakeover]

& missing out on Milera.

You have no way of knowing that's true, or whom the other clubs would have taken (I suspect Carlton still take Curnow), however three of the next four picks were matched academy picks.

We might well have ended up with the exact same draft haul, with Milera replacing Doedee, and Doedee who was considered a reach at the time being taken at the compensation pick.

I.e. it's highly arguable that we achieved no additional benefit from the trade than the compensation would have been had we matched, and we got to gift wrap a brownlow medallist at below market values to a competitor to round it off.

That's leaving aside that Geelong have to put their cards down first. They made the offer- it was our choice to match or not. They don't get to match our offer, it's the reverse. Once they'd bid low, if we matched it was what it was.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Our club's actions both in and after the Dangerfield trade were the absolute worst of our club.

A weak approach, rolled over under pressure to a stronger club that plainly didnt respect the threat we would play hard ball. Rather than looking at all of our interests (including not being known as a club that will gift wrap its players to its competitors), we instead appeared to place a primary focus on how we could spin.

The way that we attempted to present Dean Gore as a coup was as transparent an insult to the intelligence of our fans as could be. That some on this board bought it then, and still buy it, should be a source of shame for them (but won't be).

 

[Mego Red]

I thought Geelong don't pay player more than their captain, it would have been very interesting if we didn't do the trade and matched that $800K.

They wouldn't have offered $800k. They would would have said "it's a shame how the industry has changed, but Joel is incredibly excited to have Danger here, and we know the $1.3m is money well spent."

All that "we don't pay" stuff is complete bullshit, and a convenient way for the club to hold salaraies to a manageble level. They'd spin it and blame us if they had to overpay.

 

[Mego Red]

We'd have been better off making Geelong pay the full salary cap amount and not have money left to recruit and strengthen each year, as opposed to receiving Dean Gore.

Interesting point.

We ended up taking their picks from them, instead of them getting Danger and keeping their picks. The alternative was we make them pay more like you've said, but we don't get the better picks ourselves.

That version is maybe better for all the other clubs, as we damage both Geelong AND ourselves. Probably not the best decision for us.

 

[Mego Red]

Our club's actions both in and after the Dangerfield trade were the absolute worst of our club.

A weak approach, rolled over under pressure to a stronger club that plainly didnt respect the threat we would play hard ball. Rather than looking at all of our interests (including not being known as a club that will gift wrap its players to its competitors), we instead appeared to place a primary focus on how we could spin.

The way that we attempted to present Dean Gore as a coup was as transparent an insult to the intelligence of our fans as could be. That some on this board bought it then, and still buy it, should be a source of shame for them (but won't be).

Oh, that's a ridiculous over reaction.

One version is we make them overpay, and we get compo. They don't resign Bartel or sign Zac Smith, but they keep picks 9 and 28. They draft Charlie Curnow at that position, and Carlton draft Milera. We have a compo pick, which is pick 18. We end up with Ryan Burton and Tom Doedee.

The other version is exactly what happened. They get to keep their aging stars for one last run, and they add a ruckman - and it costs them a first and second round draft pick to do it. We end up with two better picks, plus we stop Geelong from being able to use them. We made s smart decision to trade that second round for a player - though we chose the wrong player.

Only an idiot would try and make the case that we didn't do the right thing, or someone looking for another dull attempt to kick the club they theoretically support. We're the ONLY club to get better than compo for a leaving RFA - though SOMEHOW people still try and s**t on that.

Dean Gore is nothing to do with it, and it is a pathetic ongoing attempt to dig at the club to make out her was anything other than a last minute throw-in, to see what he could be. The smallest of steak knives. The only reason he was even discussed is because he was an actual player, and media need to talk about THINGS because the general public doesn't care about pick numbers. You can't put a photo of a pick swap on the back page.

 

[skam85]

We end up with Ryan Burton and Tom Doedee

And marty's post count decreases by 15,000

 

[Crow till I die]

Oh, that's a ridiculous over reaction.

One version is we make them overpay, and we get compo. They don't resign Bartel or sign Zac Smith, but they keep picks 9 and 28. They draft Charlie Curnow at that position, and Carlton draft Milera. We have a compo pick, which is pick 18. We end up with Ryan Burton and Tom Doedee.

The other version is exactly what happened. They get to keep their aging stars for one last run, and they add a ruckman - and it costs them a first and second round draft pick to do it. We end up with two better picks, plus we stop Geelong from being able to use them. We made s smart decision to trade that second round for a player - though we chose the wrong player.

Only an idiot would try and make the case that we didn't do the right thing, or someone looking for another dull attempt to kick the club they theoretically support. We're the ONLY club to get better than compo for a leaving RFA - though SOMEHOW people still try and **** on that.

Dean Gore is nothing to do with it, and it is a pathetic ongoing attempt to dig at the club to make out her was anything other than a last minute throw-in, to see what he could be. The smallest of steak knives. The only reason he was even discussed is because he was an actual player, and media need to talk about THINGS because the general public doesn't care about pick numbers. You can't put a photo of a pick swap on the back page.

shame as this would look great with a caption..'crows players hear Carlton has traded their 2019 1st rounder to the Adelaide Crows'

 

[mcattack]

Geez id love to see Fog get an AFL game this year. The many tall fwds and rotations in the sanfl make it difficult for big fwds to settle. Dougie out Fog in for one home game would be ideal.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Interesting point.

We ended up taking their picks from them, instead of them getting Danger and keeping their picks. The alternative was we make them pay more like you've said, but we don't get the better picks ourselves.

That version is maybe better for all the other clubs, as we damage both Geelong AND ourselves. Probably not the best decision for us.

We don't damage ourselves- there was pretty much no difference in real value between the additional pick, and the players that were likely to be available for the reasons already explained- the majority of intervening picks were players who had the rights already claimed.

And again, you're ignoring the reality - which is that Geelong needed to furnish an offer, and did not have the right to match. The idea that they could retrospectively increase their offer based upon our decision to match or otherwise is not correct.

They did not offer 1.3 million.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Oh, that's a ridiculous over reaction.

One version is we make them overpay, and we get compo. They don't resign Bartel or sign Zac Smith, but they keep picks 9 and 28. They draft Charlie Curnow at that position, and Carlton draft Milera. We have a compo pick, which is pick 18. We end up with Ryan Burton and Tom Doedee.

The other version is exactly what happened. They get to keep their aging stars for one last run, and they add a ruckman - and it costs them a first and second round draft pick to do it. We end up with two better picks, plus we stop Geelong from being able to use them. We made s smart decision to trade that second round for a player - though we chose the wrong player.

Only an idiot would try and make the case that we didn't do the right thing, or someone looking for another dull attempt to kick the club they theoretically support. We're the ONLY club to get better than compo for a leaving RFA - though SOMEHOW people still try and **** on that.

Dean Gore is nothing to do with it, and it is a pathetic ongoing attempt to dig at the club to make out her was anything other than a last minute throw-in, to see what he could be. The smallest of steak knives. The only reason he was even discussed is because he was an actual player, and media need to talk about THINGS because the general public doesn't care about pick numbers. You can't put a photo of a pick swap on the back page.

Again- they don't get the right to increase if we match.

I don't accept your assertions about what other clubs may have done in the draft as fact- but in real terms there were only two or three live selections in between the pick we received, and where we took Doedee. It's very plausible that Milera slips through. There is no certainty whatsoever that we practically increased our receipts through the trade. We did not, in practical terms, receive better than we may have received had we not been able to match.

But that's also a fantasy based upon a hypothetical offer that you've made up, which is not reflected by what they paid in salary.

I agree that Dean Gore was nothing- but that absolutely was not how our club presented it- you seem to think that you can just do away with actual events by making up alternative facts, and using various capitalisations/swearings. You can't.

 

[Carmo]

Geez id love to see Fog get an AFL game this year. The many tall fwds and rotations in the sanfl make it difficult for big fwds to settle. Dougie out Fog in for one home game would be ideal.

It'd be good to do this against some of the weaker teams coming up. I'd try all sorts of experiments (not necessarily in the same game).

 

[1970crow]

Sure it does, when you understand that 195cm is really the lower limit for height for a KPP going forward.

Fogarty is much more the size of Stringer, Darling, McCarthy, Lynch, M. McGovern, all noted third forwards, and he certainly doesn't play tall.

Are you the same guy that said that both Crouch’s were s**t and only rated by idiotic Adelaide supporters? I’ve a question for you. Is there a chance that you are the most crudfull judge of football on this board?

 

[1970crow]

Except we couldn't have matched their $1.3m offer - which they would have done if we overplayed our hand.

They couldn’t do that. Were you not paying attention?

 

[Mego Red]

We don't damage ourselves- there was pretty much no difference in real value between the additional pick, and the players that were likely to be available for the reasons already explained- the majority of intervening picks were players who had the rights already claimed.

And again, you're ignoring the reality - which is that Geelong needed to furnish an offer, and did not have the right to match. The idea that they could retrospectively increase their offer based upon our decision to match or otherwise is not correct.

They did not offer 1.3 million.

Oh, this is some of the most naive fluff on the internet today.

There is a clear difference between getting a pick 9, taken from a competitor, or instead getting a compo pick 15 - and they still pick before you.

The only reason your want to pretend these are almost the same is to twist it into supporting your argument. It's is the most ludicrous bias.

We never would have gotten Milera. It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest we would have, with Geelong, Carlton and Richmond all picking before us.

And stop being ignorant. Geelong made a deal with us so they wouldn't have to overpay. If we DIDN'T make the deal, then they just would have outspent us. They had the deal with us LONG before any contract offer with Dangerfield was finalized. They needed the deal, so they knew what they had to spend.

 

[Mego Red]

They couldn’t do that. Were you not paying attention?

What are you talking about?

If we refused to deal with them, they absolutely would have just made Dangerfield a contract offer we couldn't have matched. Any idiot that's paying mild attention can see that.

They were in negotiations with us for months. If that went south, they had a plan B. We didn't.

 

[Mego Red]

Again- they don't get the right to increase if we match.

I don't accept your assertions about what other clubs may have done in the draft as fact- but in real terms there were only two or three live selections in between the pick we received, and where we took Doedee. It's very plausible that Milera slips through. There is no certainty whatsoever that we practically increased our receipts through the trade. We did not, in practical terms, receive better than we may have received had we not been able to match.

But that's also a fantasy based upon a hypothetical offer that you've made up, which is not reflected by what they paid in salary.

I agree that Dean Gore was nothing- but that absolutely was not how our club presented it- you seem to think that you can just do away with actual events by making up alternative facts, and using various capitalisations/swearings. You can't.

Lol - how ridiculous.

You seem to be missing the most basic thing. They don't increase their offer, ffs.

They negotiate with us, as they were doing for months, and if we decide to play silly buggers - like you were saying we should - they instead make a large financial offer that we can't match.

They give up more money, instead of giving up picks. That was their choice, and the negotiation they were making with us. They never made a offer that we had to match, because we had a deal.

And the draft point you're making seems like fiction. I just can't see a version where Geelong, Carlton and Richmond all skip over Milera. It's absolutely implausible.

 

[Elite Crow]

What are you talking about?

If we refused to deal with them, they absolutely would have just made Dangerfield a contract offer we couldn't have matched. Any idiot that's paying mild attention can see that.

They were in negotiations with us for months. If that went south, they had a plan B. We didn't.

How do you know they were capable of making an offer we couldn’t match? How do you know we didn’t have a plan B?

You are basing your rant on something you have no idea about and yet you’re getting stuck into others?

 

[Big Gazoongas]

What are you talking about?

If we refused to deal with them, they absolutely would have just made Dangerfield a contract offer we couldn't have matched. Any idiot that's paying mild attention can see that.

They were in negotiations with us for months. If that went south, they had a plan B. We didn't.

Since you are talking about idiots and paying mild attention, did you pay any attention to the interview with Wells post the trade??? If you did you wouldn't be pushing the same barrow full of the same shite you've been pushing all along and regurgitating the same rubbish.

What you're peddling now has no more truth than it had back then.

We bent over and lubed ourselves up and politely said go your hardest.

 

[Southerntakeover]

How do you know they were capable of making an offer we couldn’t match? How do you know we didn’t have a plan B?

You are basing your rant on something you have no idea about and yet you’re getting stuck into others?

His position is to just make up a series of claims and declare them as facts and then claim that to not accept those made up facts as the universal truth is somehow unfair.

I mean:

1) The offer that 'would have been made';

2) Our capacity to match;

3) The draft that supposedly would have occurred otherwise (without regard to all of the academy picks)

Are all works of fan fiction, without any support or basis whatsoever.

The problem is, of course, that 1 and 2 are predicated on the idea that Dangerfield knowingly left 500k on the table for no good reason whatsoever.

Re: Milera- there's nothing implausible about Curnow, and Rioli both going where they did. The only real question is- is it beyond the realm of possibility that there was one more player that an interstate club might have selected before Milera in that draft.