Opinion David Buttifant - do we need to be worried?

[RuFiO]

Without stating the obvious we can only hope this is not the case.

Sure hope it really isn't Harry O. That solid citizen was an inspiration to us all.

 

[KJpie]

It would also go against what the AFL is saying - however their credibilty is quickly evaporating.

Spot on 4!

Was it not the very arrogant A. Demetriou that refused to conform to the standards of the Aussie or international doping committee because the AFL did not have such problems?

 

[Dr Basil]

I would be surprised if Buttifant was involved in any illegal activities.

He is on the AFL Research Board, has a PhD in Exercise Physiology, 13 years at the helm with Collingwood and 3 years in charge at North before that.

His reputation would be No 1 in the AFL, if he is dragged into this then nobody in the sports science field is safe.

 

[Old Spice]

I'll go on a limb here for kevind. He's a man I trust.

He may mean 3 positive tests, could also be damage control, IDK. But kevind from my experience is a great poster. His source might be mistaken also.

 

[mattys123]

I'll go on a limb here for kevind. He's a man I trust.

He may mean 3 positive tests, could also be damage control, IDK. But kevind from my experience is a great poster. His source might be mistaken also.

Yeah, I wasn't having a go at KevinD, heaven knows this is one time we shouldn't be turning on our own, I was just picking up the fault in his sources comments.

 

[KJpie]

He may mean 3 positive tests, could also be damage control, IDK.

If the player admits to taking drugs prior for a get out of free card and is subsequently tested positive does this add to the 3 strike policy? If so this is why the the AFL drug policy is ridiculous, there are to many loopholes and little clarity.

Demetriou has to take his massive share of responsibility, makes me wonder whether Adrian Anderson left the AFL to disassociate himself from the issue as he possibly saw this coming?

 

[Gone Critical]

Spot on 4!

Was it not the very arrogant A. Demetriou that refused to conform to the standards of the Aussie or international doping committee because the AFL did not have such problems?

Not sure what you mean here. When the AFL did their drug policy they took on all WADAs sanctions and rules then added the out of competition testing for "recreational" drugs with it's 3 strike policy, making it the toughest drug code in world sport.

 

[dansa]

Spot on 4!

Was it not the very arrogant A. Demetriou that refused to conform to the standards of the Aussie or international doping committee because the AFL did not have such problems?

The AFL went above and beyond the world standard.

 

[Gone Critical]

Agree we can't tell but Buttifant's reputation, longevity at one club and qualificatios mean he is more likely to run a clean program than a character like Danks who seems to have popped up in multiple clubs, stood down for dubious dealings and has some questionable assocites standing up for him in the press.

I think Essendons lack of diligence will be their undoing if illegal peptides have been used and outside of this the problem will likely to confined to individuals acting outside their clubs program

 

[KJpie]

The AFL went above and beyond the world standard.

Unsure about that and if so very scary if true, no wonder we sucked at the London Olympics!

 

[kevind]

BULLSHIT. Absolute crap, sorry but that bolded part is, as soon as a player gets his third strike he is publicly named and shamed under ASADA and WADA rules, that's the deal the AFL has, and as far as I can remember there has only ever been one AFL player named as having three strikes under the current rules and that's Travis Tuck. (Justin Charles was suspended under the old rules).

And as far as the thread title goes don't worry about any club driven misuse of drugs. If you've ever had the pleasure of talking to David Buttifant, even for a few minutes you would understand his approach to illicit drugs, and that simply is that anything that is on the banned list under the performance enhancing banner is completely off limits in any of his programs. He is a little more lenient on the illicit drug use (not that he encourages it, more of a realistic approach) and that too has been spoken about by a few people, but when it comes to performance enhancing drugs the only way a Collingwood player will be found on them is if they've sought medical treatment outside of club hours/time.

Hopefully it is bullshit, but there has been the persistent rumour, and let me stress the word rumour, that there was a third strike cover up with an in house penalty handed out last year.

The guy I'm talking about didn't play for Collingwood and is not anti-Collingwood. He actually likes watching Collingwood games for the big game atmosphere it offers. He also said that at both clubs he played for, illegal drugs were rife.

No, I haven't met David Buttifant. Just hope we have a better run with injuries this year and we regain the form of 2010 and 2011, without the use of any illegal substances.

 

[KJpie]

it's 3 strike policy, making it the toughest drug code in world sport.

In your opinion GC, should there be a 3 strike policy where the club is not informed and therefor not able to act?

 

[KJpie]

I would be surprised if Buttifant was involved in any illegal activities.

He is on the AFL Research Board, has a PhD in Exercise Physiology, 13 years at the helm with Collingwood and 3 years in charge at North before that.

His reputation would be No 1 in the AFL, if he is dragged into this then nobody in the sports science field is safe.

Total faith in Butt's Doc.

Can you inform on the latter?

If the player admits to taking drugs prior and is subsequently tested positive does this add to the 3 strike policy?

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

If we are caught to have been drug cheating in 2010 we could potentially lose our flag. Just the thought of that has got me very nervous.

If we are caught to have been caught drug cheating and had a lot of players on drugs how would anyone feel towards the club? Would you support the club or will your love for Collingwood always be tainted and never the same as it once was?

My brother had a friend who played footy for Ivanhoe where Butters use to coach under 13ns a few years ago and has only said very nice things about the man. To me Butters doesn't seem like a bloke who would cheat, if he had the intention to cheat he wouldn't be organizing camps to Arizona and Utah along with encouraging the club to build rooms with high altitude to help the recovery of the players.

As it stands at the moment I have complete faith in the club and the last thing Eddie would want is to risk his credibility and also his club he has loved all his life. Personally, if we are caught to have a performance enhancing drug problem at our club that has been going on in our premiership year, it would kill me and if the club knew it was going on I would be so ashamed.

I just want this to end and all the culprits are named and shame and they serve their punishments then we can hopefully move on and look forward to the 2013 season.

 

[Gone Critical]

In your opinion GC, should there be a 3 strike policy where the club is not informed and therefor not able to act?

I think it was a stupid idea for the AFL to introduce out of competition testing fot non performance enhancing drugs. So I wouldn't test for them at all. Forget 3 strikes etc, scrap it. It is not an employers role to test for these things out of the work place. I would never stand for that happening in my work and the AFL players shouldn't either

 

[kevind]

Sure hope it really isn't Harry O. That solid citizen was an inspiration to us all.

He did name the player and it wasn't Harry O. As Matty said, hopefully it's all BS , but the guy who told me is regarded in the local community as a fine upstanding citizen.

As TD suggested, I though he was talking about a Hawthorn player because of the rumours doing the rounds. I also think it is fair to leap to the conclusion that this is not purely a "Collingwood' or 'Essendon' problem but a widespred football and society problem.

It's all becoming a little boring too. Can't wait to see big Quentin bring back the ghost of Anthony Rocca with a couple of 60 metre plus goals

 

[speedytiger]

From the outside looking in Butters seems to be a decent individual. The fact we actually have something to lose is all that worries me. What can they take from Essendon? Hope our 2010 flag was clean. If it wasn't, take it off us

 

[Old Spice]

Not sure what you mean here. When the AFL did their drug policy they took on all WADAs sanctions and rules then added the out of competition testing for "recreational" drugs with it's 3 strike policy, making it the toughest drug code in world sport.

This is bang on the dollar.

The problem here is the AFL simply don't have the apparatus to deal with such a wide-ranging problem, any more than Collingwood have the capacity to prevent any players from taking illicit drugs.

It's going to take a combination and close working relationship between various organisations - ACC/ASADA/AFL - to take these issues on. If the AFL became a federal criminal bureau as some seem to suggest, then don't complain if prices double.

A more sensible idea would be to leave the detective work to the professionals and introduce a stern penalty - criminal and code wise - to those who are at the head of any dubious conduct.

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

From the outside looking in Butters seems to be a decent individual. The fact we actually have something to lose is all that worries me. What can they take from Essendon? Hope our 2010 flag was clean. If it wasn't, take it off us

I hope our flag is clean as well or we would always have a bit of guilt about it. I remember people were starting threads on the main board shortly after we won the flag that up to 7 players of ours had used performance enhancing drugs for the GF replay. Obviously at the time I thought it was all jealousy from them but they seemed very sure that they weren't joking. Now that all this has come out I am very concerned.

 

[kevind]

I hope our flag is clean as well or we would always have a bit of guilt about it. I remember people were starting threads on the main board shortly after we won the flag that up to 7 players of ours had used performance enhancing drugs for the GF replay. Obviously at the time I thought it was all jealousy from them but they seemed very sure that they weren't joking. Now that all this has come out I am very concerned.

I wouldn't worry. IF we were guilty, then we won't be the only club. Rumours have been around about every club since the WCE situation in the 90's.

 

[jerry springer]

im not holding my breath

 

[speedytiger]

I wouldn't worry. IF we were guilty, then we won't be the only club. Rumours have been around about every club since the WCE situation in the 90's.

Rumours are one thing. Evidence is another. Look at tanking, heaps of clubs did it, AFL can't act without proof. Melbourne are copping a whack now because they couldn't keep it in house. Even if everyone is found to be doping our flag won't stand. They'll just wipe those years off the books

 

[Baltimore Jack]

BULLSHIT. Absolute crap, sorry but that bolded part is, as soon as a player gets his third strike he is publicly named and shamed under ASADA and WADA rules, that's the deal the AFL has, and as far as I can remember there has only ever been one AFL player named as having three strikes under the current rules and that's Travis Tuck. (Justin Charles was suspended under the old rules).

And as far as the thread title goes don't worry about any club driven misuse of drugs. If you've ever had the pleasure of talking to David Buttifant, even for a few minutes you would understand his approach to illicit drugs, and that simply is that anything that is on the banned list under the performance enhancing banner is completely off limits in any of his programs. He is a little more lenient on the illicit drug use (not that he encourages it, more of a realistic approach) and that too has been spoken about by a few people, but when it comes to performance enhancing drugs the only way a Collingwood player will be found on them is if they've sought medical treatment outside of club hours/time.

That's not correct matty.
The 3 strikes policy has nothing to do with ASADA, its a local agreement between the AFL and the AFLPA

Plus Vlad has already said there have been players who have been stood down for illicit drugs.

 

[unplugged]

Let's not get mixed up the recreational drugs and those of performance enhancing nature. We may very well have had players banned through "injury," such as those 2 hamstrings going at the same time last year. That's purely an assumption by example, though, and we'll probably never know.

As for performance enhancing - and probably to a lesser extent, rehabilitation from soft tissue injury - I find it somewhat interesting teams such Essendon have avoided the likes of altitude training in the past (at least until this pre-season). There are other teams in a similar situation, too.

It would be my own assumption that if Butters was to have Collingwood administered in some sort of hormone/peptide situation, we'd just sit at home injecting instead? Altitude training, altitude rooms, etc - you'd have to think that this is the absolute result of pushing limits within the laws of the game and country.

The main issue we have to worry about, I feel, is the individual cases which are referred to on the report. Butters and the rest of the Collingwood Football Club (board down to the members) may not even be aware of any wrongdoing until it's too late and under investigation. I just could not comprehend anyone being stupid enough to being involved whilst being apart of the biggest team in the league. We're in the spotlight so much that you'd have to almost know you're going to get busted.

My money is on the fringe players looking for an edge and trying to save their careers. Hopefully that's no one within our club. Wait and see.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If the player admits to taking drugs prior for a get out of free card and is subsequently tested positive does this add to the 3 strike policy?

It wouldn't be much of a get out gaol free card if it did.