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Universal Love David Teague

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Stamos said:
Can't agree that it's not game-plan related.
The game plan in Teague's 19 games was tweaked from Bolton's, and was pretty successful. But it has changed since then, is unsustainable, and is a big part of the reason that we are so poor now.
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The game plan requires continual massive levels of effort for marginal reward and is unsustainable, results in poor performance, in turn we see a reduction in effort/buy in.

Less effort means the plan is even less visible in team performance, leads to poor results, heads drop further... etc etc

The pressers, (both post game), and Crippa's were nothing less than momento mori in relation to Teague's coaching appointment.

Fix the game plan and we'll see some real improvement in effort and culture/buy in - whatever you want o call it...
 
Earls Smother said:
Ok, it could in part be related.

We were going at a win rate of greater than 50%, as well as pushing Melbourne to a point and Port to 3 points early last year. If minor changes to the game plan at that point were not making us better, what sort of fool continues down that path?

I still find it hard to believe that any game plan can stand up when you get effort levels like we have seen from the likes of Williams, Martin, Murphy, Setterfield, SPS, Newnes, Dow and even Cripps at times. Some of it may be injury related, but we are not getting consistent application across the 22 to give any game plan a fair chance.

The players lack of faith in the game plan must have dropped off a cliff around the time of that Hawthorn game last year (like the 25 minute mark of the first quarter), which has then manifested itself in appearing to not try as hard. Chicken/egg I suppose.
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I wouldn't say the players lost faith in the game plan against Hawthorn, it's more recent than that.
There were a lot of other issues happening last year, to do with injuries and fitness, our lack of rotating players etc.

The problems with our structure were most glaring in the Collingwood game, when we were 6-6 and had a real shot at going for finals. And then the Giants and the Crows were able to open us up. The real problem though is that we did nothing to address our structural/system problems over the last pre-season and into this year.
 
bluekidjoe said:
Fear is the best motivator. Does he instill fear? Not at all. Not in the players, not in the assistants, not in the footy department. That's why he needs to be sacked. A parent who tells a kid to be home by 10pm is a killjoy when the kid is 17, but when that kid graduates uni with good habits, that parent is lauded. Teague isn't disciplining the boys to the point where they are holding themselves to account internally. Also, his game plan's defense is just nonsense.

Ratts may've been sacked prematurely but lacked defense, Malthouse needed to go, Bolton wasn't more than a development coach, and Teague cannot design an implement a winning game plan. It's time for Ross or Alastair.
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Some will get hung up on the word fear in your post.

Not sure I'd say fear, but...

A healthy sense of consequences, sprinkled with a desire to not let peers and coaching staff down can be a strong motivator.

When you combine that with a sniff of the rewards on offer, when they are close to being tangible - at that point a group can realise great achievement. self-sacrifice, team first, going when it's your turn, all the thousands of little efforts required are done without condition.

But it also requires clarity as to what those actions mean, what they contribute to success and the knowledge that any of your mates will do for you what you are willing to do for them. We need a parental figure not chummy matey shit.
 

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Stamos said:
Caroline Wilson said the players spoke to the press?
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Cannot believe how naive you are? Of course a couple of players did. Its been going on at this back stabbing club for decades.. We have the most selfish/me first type of culture at this club, and it's happened ever since Parkin retired.

This is Why I am heavily in favour of a mass player cull at end of the season. I cannot think of more than 10 (maximum) who buy Into the side before self creed. And what annoys me most I am not sure Patrick Cripps is part of that 10 either

We got far far more troubling issues than the coaching mate. Most players should be put on notice. They have been treated far too softly and with kids gloves for far too long.

It's time for the board and supporters to stop mollycoddling them and without singling any individual but collectively why they decide to onluy play decent 4 quarter footy only when it suits it and them, especially when the pressure is off.


I accuse this team of being front runners, we will probably win 6 of our last 8 games etc and we will go into next season under another false down.

I have seen this same movie too many times in the last 20 years.

#ElmerGoesBang
 
Elmer_Judd said:
Cannot believe how naive you are? Of course a couple of players did. Its been going on at this back stabbing club for decades.. We have the most selfish/me first type of culture at this club, and it's happened ever since Parkin retired.

This is Why I am heavily in favour of a mass player cull at end of the season. I cannot think of more than 10 (maximum) who buy Into the side before self creed. And what annoys me most I am not sure Patrick Cripps is part of that 10 either

We got far far more troubling issues than the coaching mate. Most players should be put on notice. They have been treated far too softly and with kids gloves for far too long.

It's time for the board and supporters to stop mollycoddling them and without singling any individual but collectively why they decide to onluy play decent 4 quarter footy only when it suits it and them, especially when the pressure is off.


I accuse this team of being front runners, we will probably win 6 of our last 8 games etc and we will go into next season under another false down.

I have seen this same movie too many times in the last 20 years.

#ElmerGoesBang
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We don't look like beating the Red Hill Under 12s right now, 6 or 8 wins is laughable.
 
It is clear as day to me the players don't believe in Teague's game plan, and the coach and his assistants are now trying poorly to teach the players modern football team defence. Hard to learn things during the season and with a collapse in motivation, belief and in turn effort, it has all gone pear shaped.

It all comes back to design though. The game plan is flawed.
 
1981 said:
We don't look like beating the Red Hill Under 12s right now, 6 or 8 wins is laughable.
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Mark my words, especially when (and I am sure it's only a matter of time when the club announces Teague is not going on next year as coach) the players will suddenly find the motivation to win games.

Idiotic decision by the club to retire Kade Simpson, and if that was Teague's decision I am furious at him. Simmo was the true captain/leader of this club over many years, and now that it seems like we were the ones who tapped him on the shoulder really frustrates me.

Get him back to the club in some capacity as an assistant or part of the VFL Team or whatever.

I think Simmo's loss has had a more profound impact both on and off field at this club than any of us thought.

He had another season in him for sure. SMH
 
Elmer_Judd said:
Mark my words, especially when (and I am sure it's only a matter of time when the club announces Teague is not going on next year as coach) the players will suddenly find the motivation to win games.

Idiotic decision by the club to retire Kade Simpson, and if that was Teague's decision I am furious at him. Simmo was the true captain/leader of this club over many years, and now that it seems like we were the ones who tapped him on the shoulder really frustrates me.

Get him back to the club in some capacity as an assistant or part of the VFL Team or whatever.

I think Simmo's loss has had a more profound impact both on and off field at this club than any of us thought.

He had another season in him for sure. SMH
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Sorry mate, but get a modern, scaleable game plan. Positive reinforcement from winning will lead to buy in.
 
OldCarltonian said:
and let's suggest they show that to the players in the review....then what? Do we honestly think they'll stop running away from the ball carrier in 1 week?
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No? Wat where did I imply it was a 1 week fix. I think it'll be a quick fix because they're playing under instruction not instinct but still, to answer the rest of your post because the coaches are convinced this idea will work eventually. Thats why it keeps happening.
 

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Stamos said:
Lol. That's not how the media gets it. You're calling me naive?
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Players or their Managers/Agents. I doubt it was anyone at board level.

It reflects badly on the entire club at any rate..loose lips sink ships and all that.

Even if it was a player who blabbed it to a family member or friend, it's still poor form from them.

If you go behind the coach's back (or anyone in life really) and badmouth them without having The Intestinal Fortitude to say said remarks to the person you are slagging off, you are not a very good human being at all.

Denis Pagan was a poor choice of coach for us, and deserved to go when he did, but that Barry Mitchell went behind his back and applied for his job at Graham Smorgon's house was one of the most disgraceful acts of football treachery I have ever seen.

I do have grave concerns about the character of some of our players at our club, based on the info we currently have.

I see no reason why Caroline Wilson wouldn't go with this story if her sources were not reliable.

Maybe I am overreacting like a Headless Chook but I have real genuine concerns and frustration about every facet of our on field department right now, especially the playing group (off field we are going swimmingly)

If we decide to replace Teague, I hope the club does it with the same class and dignity it gave Brendon Bolton when we sacked him.
 
Stamos said:
Caroline Wilson said the players spoke to the press?
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Elmer_Judd said:
Cannot believe how naive you are? Of course a couple of players did. Its been going on at this back stabbing club for decades.. We have the most selfish/me first type of culture at this club, and it's happened ever since Parkin retired.
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She said they spoke to the president. Elmer your crusade against the players is pathetic because it is not based on anything true whatsoever.
 
1981 said:
It is clear as day to me the players don't believe in Teague's game plan, and the coach and his assistants are now trying poorly to teach the players modern football team defence. Hard to learn things during the season and with a collapse in motivation, belief and in turn effort, it has all gone pear shaped.

It all comes back to design though. The game plan is flawed.
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It's that simple. It's not backstabbing or anything like that it's players voicing their concerns to the incomming head of the 'company'. Fair enough, employees are allowed to do such things. It's how the management and such respond that determines whether the tail wags the dog too much or a balance is kept.
 
Elmer_Judd said:
Players or their Managers/Agents. I doubt it was anyone at board level.

It reflects badly on the entire club at any rate..loose lips sink ships and all that.

Even if it was a player who blabbed it to a family member or friend, it's still poor form from them.

If you go behind the coach's back (or anyone in life really) and badmouth them without having The Intestinal Fortitude to say said remarks to the person you are slagging off, you are not a very good human being at all.

Denis Pagan was a poor choice of coach for us, and deserved to go when he did, but that Barry Mitchell went behind his back and applied for his job at Graham Smorgon's house was one of the most disgraceful acts of football treachery I have ever seen.

I do have grave concerns about the character of some of our players at our club, based on the info we currently have.

I see no reason why Caroline Wilson wouldn't go with this story if her sources were not reliable.

Maybe I am overreacting like a Headless Chook but I have real genuine concerns and frustration about every facet of our on field department right now, especially the playing group (off field we are going swimmingly)

If we decide to replace Teague, I hope the club does it with the same class and dignity it gave Brendon Bolton when we sacked him.
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I didn't say that Wilson's story was unreliable, I said the players wouldn't have gone to the media with it.
Things like that get to the media in other ways.
 
Cliffords Blues said:
If they did or did not I cannot say personally, depends on how disgruntled (to use a word) the player or staff member is.
Rest assured clubs leak like sieves.
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Oh, I'm not denying that it leaked to the media.
But I'd be utterly shocked if multiple players told the media what they had said to Sayers.
 

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Elmer_Judd said:
Players or their Managers/Agents. I doubt it was anyone at board level.

It reflects badly on the entire club at any rate..loose lips sink ships and all that.

Even if it was a player who blabbed it to a family member or friend, it's still poor form from them.

If you go behind the coach's back (or anyone in life really) and badmouth them without having The Intestinal Fortitude to say said remarks to the person you are slagging off, you are not a very good human being at all.

Denis Pagan was a poor choice of coach for us, and deserved to go when he did, but that Barry Mitchell went behind his back and applied for his job at Graham Smorgon's house was one of the most disgraceful acts of football treachery I have ever seen.

I do have grave concerns about the character of some of our players at our club, based on the info we currently have.

I see no reason why Caroline Wilson wouldn't go with this story if her sources were not reliable.

Maybe I am overreacting like a Headless Chook but I have real genuine concerns and frustration about every facet of our on field department right now, especially the playing group (off field we are going swimmingly)

If we decide to replace Teague, I hope the club does it with the same class and dignity it gave Brendon Bolton when we sacked him.
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The amount of assumptions in this post that are plain unprovable is staggering.

You doubt it was a board member? Why? Sayers is talking to heaps of people and he conducted those interviews you're attacking players about. It could easily have been him or someone he spoke to about it.

Intestial fortitude to say that to the person you are slaggin off? 1. Stop taking it so personal, the info 'leaked' wasn't personal against teague. It was about the system and policies at the club. 2. HOW ARROGANT ARE YOU to assume that they didn't/haven't spoken to the coaching group about it.

The Denis pagan stuff is yonks ago and completely irrelevant. The Ancient Egyptians did disgraceful things therefore everyone in Egypt is scummy still. LOL

Off field we are going swimmingly? Really? We have an artificially inflated number of members which will crash back down, a ceo who can't help but media manipulate and a full football department review. None of that screams anything is going swimmingly.
 
Stamos said:
I didn't say that Wilson's story was unreliable, I said the players wouldn't have gone to the media with it.
Things like that get to the media in other ways.
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Well I will take your word for it then, but I know for a fact that wasn't the case in the past (esp during Pagan and Ratts' coaching stints)


This breakdown in communication in players and Teague is concerning,but it is as bad as what is implied, surely DT would have been removed as coach by now.

And then you read reports from other sources that Teague is safe as houses as coach for next season.
 
Stamos said:
Oh, I'm not denying that it leaked to the media.
But I'd be utterly shocked if multiple players told the media what they had said to Sayers.
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Agreed some thing should stay inhouse, as a supporter I am fully behind this.
However, there is always 'someone' at a club that what to get a 'headline' into the public, for whatever that reason maybe.
:)
 
Magruder said:
Some will get hung up on the word fear in your post.

Not sure I'd say fear, but...

A healthy sense of consequences, sprinkled with a desire to not let peers and coaching staff down can be a strong motivator.

When you combine that with a sniff of the rewards on offer, when they are close to being tangible - at that point a group can realise great achievement. self-sacrifice, team first, going when it's your turn, all the thousands of little efforts required are done without condition.

But it also requires clarity as to what those actions mean, what they contribute to success and the knowledge that any of your mates will do for you what you are willing to do for them. We need a parental figure not chummy matey sh*t.
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This, 100% Perfect way to phrase what I was trying to say, thank you!
 
Are the players committed to change what metrics can you provide to show evidence? (And if they are happy with where they are career and legacy) Good luck it isn't changing in this generation.

Are the Coaches Teague and assistants committed to change and where is the evidence?

Is the Board Committed to change? Really then why did they appoint a Western Australian who has to lockdown regardless.

Just like the Coaching advisor Worsfold how many games did he fly and see in Vic or elsewhere?

There are no actions that appear genuine in any area of the Club.
 

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