Universal Love David Teague

[Big Red is back]

Coaches are either instructing what is occurring or allowing

even a bloke who wins the most courageous player in the entire game as rated by his peers gets put down by a keyboard hero for not being ruthless - and people can't see the problems with today's so called club supporter............jesaulenko wasn't ruthless either........guess that's a knock on his game......

Stange post, courage as a player and ruthless as a coach have nothing to do with each other. Not sure you are attacking the poster as a keyboard hero, the observation that Teague is not demanding enough is widespread, I suspect you are potentially in denial, and the typical response to that is to resort to name-calling, rather than engaging in debate.

Disappointing post.

 

[thylacine60]

Coaches are either instructing what is occurring or allowing


Stange post, courage as a player and ruthless as a coach have nothing to do with each other. Not sure you are attacking the poster as a keyboard hero, the observation that Teague is not demanding enough is widespread, I suspect you are potentially in denial, and the typical response to that is to resort to name-calling, rather than engaging in debate.

Disappointing post.

The BF Missed The Point Entirely Club likely has a waiting list. But beautifully debated otherwise.

 

[blueboy25]

Interesting listening to Andrew Walker talk to Howard Kotton and Tony De Bolfo on their new podcast "With all the Champions".

They asked him about Teague and he said he just wished the club would back him in.

He said its the same thing over and over again at Carlton over the last 20 years. We have a run of bad games and then media put pressure on, then the supporters jump in as well and then the club buckle under the pressure.

 

[thylacine60]

Yeah, but what would Walks know about footy compared to the ex-players/coaches/administrators et al who reside on BF?

 

[Bluebag13]

I think Liddle has emphasised a happy inclusive club that is fun to be around, a fun place to come to work. That's what he has tried to bring over from Richmond, along with more members.

Unfortunately while that all sounds good and well it doesn't complement Teagues lax approach. At Richmond this was more balanced with a hard nose coach.

There needs to be a balance where fear is always in the back of their minds (players these days aren't as self driven as yesteryear), keeping them on edge.

The current balance might work at Google HQ but performance sports are a different beast.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Depends what the group as a whole are motivated by, something coming from behind (fear) or what's in front (reward). either way can drive clubs forward just need to understand what we are motivated by and go with that.

 

[Blue since 72]

Pretty sure the game plan is known by all by now.

Win the contest push it forward lock it in. Where it breaks down is on turnover and while a plus one might help somewhat the two problems here are that both Teague and the players actually believe they're putting in the required effort when they aren't and the result of that is a lack of desire to defend the turnover.

Regardless of what people think of some of the media, they are spot on when they say this team will not will itself to do the hard yards in defending and Teague is either delusional or just trying to protect the players when he says they are putting in the effort. Even Cripps thinks the effort is there.

Given Russell's reputation before coming to Carlton I would be surprised if the players aren't fit enough (isn't he on record as saying he was shocked at their lack of fitness when he got there) so the only reason left if you assume the talent is there is mental strength.

I believe it's pretty clear that this group are not mentally strong enough or demanding enough of themselves individually (the biggest problem) and as a collective to be anything other than ordinary.

With regard to the on field, there is no mental toughness at Carlton and the club has and still is trading on words to sell it's message.

 

[ctwenty1]

Yeah, but what would Walks know about footy compared to the ex-players/coaches/administrators et al who reside on BF?

I can i answer this rhetorical question "Obviously nothing"

 

[Blue__Balls]

Interesting listening to Andrew Walker talk to Howard Kotton and Tony De Bolfo on their new podcast "With all the Champions".

They asked him about Teague and he said he just wished the club would back him in.

He said its the same thing over and over again at Carlton over the last 20 years. We have a run of bad games and then media put pressure on, then the supporters jump in as well and then the club buckle under the pressure.

Players and coaches need to have the same chat that the Melbourne team did. Gawn said they all decided, as a group, that they were sick and tired of being laughed at, pitied, and disrespected by the competition.

Maybe Carlton need to stop filtering out the external noise, and use it to fuel some change instead. "Here's what everyone is saying, prove them wrong".

 

[Blue__Balls]

Pretty sure the game plan is known by all by now.

Win the contest push it forward lock it in. Where it breaks down is on turnover and while a plus one might help somewhat the two problems here are that both Teague and the players actually believe they're putting in the required effort when they aren't and the result of that is a lack of desire to defend the turnover.

Regardless of what people think of some of the media, they are spot on when they say this team will not will itself to do the hard yards in defending and Teague is either delusional or just trying to protect the players when he says they are putting in the effort. Even Cripps thinks the effort is there.

Given Russell's reputation before coming to Carlton I would be surprised if the players aren't fit enough (isn't he on record as saying he was shocked at their lack of fitness when he got there) so the only reason left if you assume the talent is there is mental strength.

I believe it's pretty clear that this group are not mentally strong enough or demanding enough of themselves individually (the biggest problem) and as a collective to be anything other than ordinary.

With regard to the on field, there is no mental toughness at Carlton and the club has and still is trading on words to sell it's message.

That's part of it - but the whole "locking it in" thing isn't working either. Opposition sides walk the ball straight out of our forward line at will. We kick a behind, they get the ball back, and pick any of three open players to kick it to...next thing you know they're on the wing.

 

[Blue since 72]

That's part of it - but the whole "locking it in" thing isn't working either. Opposition sides walk the ball straight out of our forward line at will. We kick a behind, they get the ball back, and pick any of three open players to kick it to...next thing you know they're on the wing.

True but if you look at the vision being shown we refuse to cover and be accountable, assumedly expecting someone else to do it. If you don't gut run the best team in the league will not be able to "lock it in".

The game is essentially a turnover game these days regardless of who's playing so if you don't pressure the ball carrier and get it back you're ****ed.

 

[JustaBattler]

Pretty sure the game plan is known by all by now.

Win the contest push it forward lock it in. Where it breaks down is on turnover and while a plus one might help somewhat the two problems here are that both Teague and the players actually believe they're putting in the required effort when they aren't and the result of that is a lack of desire to defend the turnover.

Regardless of what people think of some of the media, they are spot on when they say this team will not will itself to do the hard yards in defending and Teague is either delusional or just trying to protect the players when he says they are putting in the effort. Even Cripps thinks the effort is there.

Given Russell's reputation before coming to Carlton I would be surprised if the players aren't fit enough (isn't he on record as saying he was shocked at their lack of fitness when he got there) so the only reason left if you assume the talent is there is mental strength.

I believe it's pretty clear that this group are not mentally strong enough or demanding enough of themselves individually (the biggest problem) and as a collective to be anything other than ordinary.

With regard to the on field, there is no mental toughness at Carlton and the club has and still is trading on words to sell it's message.

True but if you look at the vision being shown we refuse to cover and be accountable, assumedly expecting someone else to do it. If you don't gut run the best team in the league will not be able to "lock it in".

The game is essentially a turnover game these days regardless of who's playing so if you don't pressure the ball carrier and get it back you're f’ed.

Unfortunately the running statistics posted by Arr0w and quoted previously by others - including me - say that the players ARE putting in the hard yards and in fac tin most games running further and faster than their opposition week in week out.

So it isn't a lack of effort (as demonstrated by fact not opinion or selective imagery) that is leading to losses. If not lack of effort what could it be?

Well I've come to the conclusion that it is how effort is being applied that is the problem here -not lack of effort.

The HOW is all about game plan and coaching as well as execution - which is a round and round the merry go round conundrum.

 

[Blue since 72]

Unfortunately the running statistics posted by Arr0w and quoted previously by others - including me - say that the players ARE putting in the hard yards and in fac tin most games running further and faster than their opposition week in week out.

So it isn't a lack of effort (as demonstrated by fact not opinion or selective imagery) that is leading to losses. If not lack of effort what could it be?

Well I've come to the conclusion that it is how effort is being applied that is the problem here -not lack of effort.

The HOW is all about game plan and coaching as well as execution - which is a round and round the merry go round conundrum.

As you say, running faster and harder but that could be running forward or spreading from a contest we then lose.

So agree to the correction in terms of effort, effort being applied but perhaps one way only (so selectively) and/or stupidly (running for the sake of it) but there is no opinion or selective imagery when you watch vision all day long of players not running defensively, that's just truth.

While I believe the system needs work I don't believe the application of effort is purely system based.

 

[Blue1980]

As you say, running faster and harder but that could be running forward or spreading from a contest we then lose.

So agree to the correction in terms of effort, effort being applied but perhaps one way only (so selectively) and/or stupidly (running for the sake of it) but there is no opinion or selective imagery when you watch vision all day long of players not running defensively, that's just truth.

While I believe the system needs work I don't believe the application of effort is purely system based.

I’m confused how our tackling has fallen off a cliff this year, wasn’t like this last year or the year before was it?

 

[1981]

Questions should have been asked after the Coll game. The ease with which they scored early, it just showed a glaring problem with our game plan.

 

[Blue since 72]

I’m confused how our tackling has fallen off a cliff this year, wasn’t like this last year or the year before was it?

Not enough pressure on the ball carrier which given Teague's mandate of forward lock it in pressure is even more damning. Once again effort based, pretty sure Teague's system doesn't suggest not chasing or sagging off your opponent and corralling.

One other reason would be where the ball is turned over in that the opposition player gets the ball in space and delivers to a team mate in space therefore denying any opportunity for tackling, a lot like a fair few passages of play on the weekend. If the opposition had a lot more uncontested possessions that would gel and could also suggest they are running harder.

 

[My Hat]

Interesting listening to Andrew Walker talk to Howard Kotton and Tony De Bolfo on their new podcast "With all the Champions".

They asked him about Teague and he said he just wished the club would back him in.

He said its the same thing over and over again at Carlton over the last 20 years. We have a run of bad games and then media put pressure on, then the supporters jump in as well and then the club buckle under the pressure.

It's an uncomfortable point. People talk a lot about the culture of the club, but on occasion it might be worth us all reflecting on the culture of the supporters.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I’m confused how our tackling has fallen off a cliff this year, wasn’t like this last year or the year before was it?

Our tackling was marginally better last year but most of the improvement came via FWD 50 tackles that has completely dropped off this year .
I believe Teague and the MC have completely misread the rule changes this year thinking it was going to be a much more open style game .
Footy is always going to be a contact highly contested game if you can't pressure the opposition into turnovers via tackle and pressure your going to struggle unless your personnel are extremely talented and well drilled .
His negligence of the defensive side of the game has been damning for him the coaches and the players imo .
We tackled although inconsistently much more under bolton because he was coaching defence first .
Teague is the complete opposite its now clear the players haven't bought in and his game plan is looking completely stupid right now .

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I think Liddle has emphasised a happy inclusive club that is fun to be around, a fun place to come to work. That's what he has tried to bring over from Richmond, along with more members.

I think Liddle is all noise and no action. He's only interested in the media messages, and superfluous imagery of the club. Fake memberships and constant press conferences. He's a fraud.

 

[Gointocarlton]

I think Liddle is all noise and no action. He's only interested in the media messages, and superfluous imagery of the club. Fake memberships and constant press conferences. He's a fraud.

When they sacked Trigg, they said they wanted someone who was more commercially savvy. Our membership is at record high (albeit from a few freebies) and sponsorship hasn't looked better. So for that The Richmond Bloke gets a tick. I personally dont like him or the way he carries himself, but I guess he is going what he was paid to do. After the review, he will have some firing and hiring to do as that's his job.

 

[blue healer]

LM is not wrong here.

I think Lethal is wrong here.

He is not saying that Teague should resign because of team performance, he is saying (from my reading anyway) that he should resign because the club, in announcing an external review, is showing no faith or confidence in the coach and that he should quit on a principle. IMO this would be cowardly reaction by Teague.

If he has the confidence in his own ability, his game plan, his players, his assistants and his selection policies the courageous decision is fight through it and live or die by his decisions.

The only reasons he should resign is if the constant pressure from all and sundry is affecting his mental wellbeing, family life or that he has lost the support of the players. Until and unless any of those are evident to him he needs to fight it out.

Lethal doesn't seem to me to be the kind who would quit merely because some pressure is applied anyway.

I think most of us agree that the club is doing the right thing by instigating this review, my only hope is (perhaps forlornly) that it does not have a predetermined outcome.

Be interesting to see the reactions here if the outcome sees Teague, Lloyd and Liddle retained.

 

[macky99]

I think Lethal is wrong here.

He is not saying that Teague should resign because of team performance, he is saying (from my reading anyway) that he should resign because the club, in announcing an external review, is showing no faith or confidence in the coach and that he should quit on a principle. IMO this would be cowardly reaction by Teague.

If he has the confidence in his own ability, his game plan, his players, his assistants and his selection policies the courageous decision is fight through it and live or die by his decisions.

The only reasons he should resign is if the constant pressure from all and sundry is affecting his mental wellbeing, family life or that he has lost the support of the players. Until and unless any of those are evident to him he needs to fight it out.

Lethal doesn't seem to me to be the kind who would quit merely because some pressure is applied anyway.

I think most of us agree that the club is doing the right thing by instigating this review, my only hope is (perhaps forlornly) that it does not have a predetermined outcome.

Be interesting to see the reactions here if the outcome sees Teague, Lloyd and Liddle retained.

What would be the point of the review if very little changes, clearly a pointless exercise as some have stated in our last 22 games we are clearly one of the worst performing teams on the back of large contracts for players from other clubs & many players on our list that are in a phrase were they should have reached a peak level of performance in their career journey.

Almost every respected figure Brown/Riewoldt/Lewis/Healy have flagged major issues that require significant change.

 

[Gavstar]

I think Lethal is wrong here.

He is not saying that Teague should resign because of team performance, he is saying (from my reading anyway) that he should resign because the club, in announcing an external review, is showing no faith or confidence in the coach and that he should quit on a principle. IMO this would be cowardly reaction by Teague.

If he has the confidence in his own ability, his game plan, his players, his assistants and his selection policies the courageous decision is fight through it and live or die by his decisions.

The only reasons he should resign is if the constant pressure from all and sundry is affecting his mental wellbeing, family life or that he has lost the support of the players. Until and unless any of those are evident to him he needs to fight it out.

Lethal doesn't seem to me to be the kind who would quit merely because some pressure is applied anyway.

I think most of us agree that the club is doing the right thing by instigating this review, my only hope is (perhaps forlornly) that it does not have a predetermined outcome.

Be interesting to see the reactions here if the outcome sees Teague, Lloyd and Liddle retained.

Blightly also said he'd walk away.

Fundamentally the perception is that the external review is needed because the club doesn't trust the CEO, Head of Football and the Senior Coach to make decisions on the direction of the football department, appointment of coaching staff and the on field performance of the football club (fitness, skills and strategy etc).

That in itself is pretty damning, basically for Teague it means the training wheels are back on.

 

[Stamos]

I wonder if Lethal and Blighty reckon Dimma should have walked at the end of 2016? Or Bomber Thompson in 2006?

 

[Stamos]

Blightly also said he'd walk away.

Fundamentally the perception is that the external review is needed because the club doesn't trust the CEO, Head of Football and the Senior Coach to make decisions on the direction of the football department, appointment of coaching staff and the on field performance of the football club (fitness, skills and strategy etc).

That in itself is pretty damning, basically for Teague it means the training wheels are back on.

It could be that the first 2 are a bigger problem than the third?

 

[macky99]

I wonder if Lethal and Blighty reckon Dimma should have walked at the end of 2016? Or Bomber Thompson in 2006?

Not sure why people keep rolling out this Dimma/Thompson comparision when both had relatively good performance reaching finals before one poor season, there is a significant point of difference.