Universal Love David Teague

[SkyhorseTamer]

When I go to the footy, I don’t watch the coaches box. When I watch on telly, I only get the snippets. I admire your ability to see, analyse and draw conclusions about an individual based on a fans perspective.

Do some reading about the big bang and cosmic microwave background to see that it is actually possible to use evidence to know all about something you can't observe directly...

 

[katmanblue]

What's Malthouse up to?

Lunch with Beokhorst. Plotting.

 

[katmanblue]

People keep saying there’s no magic cure/fix or formula.

There is.

But you find it through making calculated and controlled changes.

It just concerns me that we don’t seem to be trying much different.

Alchemy!

 

[katmanblue]

I want players who can put pressure on and tackle. Look at Cottrell who isn’t the most skilful but look what his intent has brought the team the last few weeks. Look at what Fogarty has brought to the team the whole year.

The sooner we get rid of Murph, Betts (and Curnow though he does tackle but terrible ball use) and play young players with aggression like Stocker, Philp, Honey we will be better off

Cottrell was shot this week. Hardly a shining light.

 

[katmanblue]

Then why do the members back the board in?

Change is hard and who is putting their hand up to be that change?

I wouldn't know the individuals from a bar of soap. Not until they are in the job for a while. So why would I pick one over the other?

This type of thinking is why incumbents have the advantage.

 

[Magruder]

Alchemy!

perfect term for it

 

[katmanblue]

Do some reading about the big bang and cosmic microwave background to see that it is actually possible to use evidence to know all about something you can't observe directly...

Theories. Hypotheses. No proof.

Doesn't really illustrate your point.

Indicators from which inferences may be made. Educated guesses can be made, but no one really knows.

 

[Hands On]

I want players who can put pressure on and tackle. Look at Cottrell who isn’t the most skilful but look what his intent has brought the team the last few weeks. Look at what Fogarty has brought to the team the whole year.

The sooner we get rid of Murph, Betts (and Curnow though he does tackle but terrible ball use) and play young players with aggression like Stocker, Philp, Honey we will be better off

All outside the club and 99% of the football experts see this and will agree with you. Why is it that no one in our brains trust see's it also. That is the problem.
perhaps Teague has been told Finals or bust making him reluctant to risk playing & developing the young ones.

 

[gbatman]

I'd be asking questions of the roles we are giving young players.

We play young midfielders and we don't seem to use them, there seems to be a group of players who are allowed to win/hunt the ball and who we focus on getting the ball too and the rest seem to have to have to live off scraps.

I'm watching Dow play in the preseason games and we are looking to direct the footy his way and he's going well, we are seeing him get in dangerous spots and we are seeing the ball go his way. I'm never seeing this happen in the home and away games, we have changed his role to one where he doesn't get the footy.

What I am seeing is a midfield where we are directing it to Cripps most of the time and Walsh and sometimes Curnow and Williams and that's it.

If you want to develop players you need to make an effort to get the footy in their hands and you need to give them defined roles. Could this be what is lacking with our player development? You can see the effort we are going to to get the ball in the hands of Saad and Cripps so why not others?

How good you are in Carlton seems to be defined by what role you are allowed to play. Cripps wouldn't see much footy in Dow's semi outside periferal role that's for sure and we are all wondering what's wrong with Dow. Well maybe he can play, perhaps the role and instruction is the issue.

Gibbons was killing it and against good sides until we brought in Betts and pushed Gibbons further up the ground now Gibbons is just going ok again.

Here's some advice for Teague.

Dow was brought in as a ball winning inside midfielder. If you want him to become any good you bring him in and you play him in the center and we direct the footy his way and if that means a Curnow or a Cripps has to get out of the way or man up someone at stoppages then that's what you do. That's what your leaders do if they are genuine about the team being better, get out of the way and take on the more difficult roles and bring others into the game.

Same with Stocker, don't bring him in the side and not use him, make the effort to get the ball in his hands and make the more experienced players have to fight hard for their possessions. Make Saad or Docherty man up harder and push Williamson or Stocker to run off and hunt the footy.

If we bring in guys like Dow and Stocker and we start looking for them and give them roles where they are the focus and they fail at it then we make judgement on them.

This is how young players learn and how you improve as a team. Once again we have this huge focus on our established and older players and we are all left here wondering what is wrong with our player development.

Ironically it would be a really good time for someone like Brendon Bolton to come in now that our young players are a little more mature and we have an older core of players however he made his own mistakes and he's at a team which funny enough is a premiership favourite, nothing to see here or is there?

We need a new midfield coach. We need to have a look at our leadership and find out exactly they are looking to achieve out there and we need to have a look at how our coaching is failing to develop players and bring young players into the game.

To me it's obvious, our system is all about our established players and older players and we aren't giving youngsters an opportunity when they come into the side. We aren't looking to bring them into games and it's where we are failing.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I'd be asking questions of the roles we are giving young players.

We play young midfielders and we don't seem to use them, there seems to be a group of players who are allowed to win/hunt the ball and who we focus on getting the ball too and the rest seem to have to have to live off scraps.

I'm watching Dow play in the preseason games and we are looking to direct the footy his way and he's going well, we are seeing him get in dangerous spots and we are seeing the ball go his way. I'm never seeing this happen in the home and away games, we have changed his role to one where he doesn't get the footy.

What I am seeing is a midfield where we are directing it to Cripps most of the time and Walsh and sometimes Curnow and Williams and that's it.

If you want to develop players you need to make an effort to get the footy in their hands and you need to give them defined roles. Could this be what is lacking with our player development? You can see the effort we are going to to get the ball in the hands of Saad and Cripps so why not others?

How good you are in Carlton seems to be defined by what role you are allowed to play. Cripps wouldn't see much footy in Dow's semi outside periferal role that's for sure and we are all wondering what's wrong with Dow. Well maybe he can play, perhaps the role and instruction is the issue.

Gibbons was killing it and against good sides until we brought in Betts and pushed Gibbons further up the ground now Gibbons is just going ok again.

Here's some advice for Teague.

Dow was brought in as a ball winning inside midfielder. If you want him to become any good you bring him in and you play him in the center and we direct the footy his way and if that means a Curnow or a Cripps has to get out of the way or man up someone at stoppages then that's what you do. That's what your leaders do if they are genuine about the team being better, get out of the way and take on the more difficult roles and bring others into the game.

Same with Stocker, don't bring him in the side and not use him, make the effort to get the ball in his hands and make the more experienced players have to fight hard for their possessions. Make Saad or Docherty man up harder and push Williamson or Stocker to run off and hunt the footy.

If we bring in guys like Dow and Stocker and we start looking for them and give them roles where they are the focus and they fail at it then we make judgement on them.

This is how young players learn and how you improve as a team. Once again we have this huge focus on our established and older players and we are all left here wondering what is wrong with our player development.

Ironically it would be a really good time for someone like Brendon Bolton to come in now that our young players are a little more mature and we have an older core of players however he made his own mistakes and he's at a team which funny enough is a premiership favourite, nothing to see here or is there?

We need a new midfield coach. We need to have a look at our leadership and find out exactly they are looking to achieve out there and we need to have a look at how our coaching is failing to develop players and bring young players into the game.

To me it's obvious, our system is all about our established players and older players and we aren't giving youngsters an opportunity when they come into the side. We aren't looking to bring them into games and it's where we are failing.

Some good ideas here for sure.

In terms of drafting, we've sunk so many assets into bringing highly rated young mids(although some were traded in for cheap):

It can't all be drafting errors/busts as many of these were fairly universally consensus picks: setters SPS Dow especially.

2015: Cuningham (pick 22ish)
2016: Setterfield (5) SPS (6) Fisher (25ish)
2017: Dow (3) LOB (10)
2018: Walsh (1) Stocker (19)

Out of all those, how can Walsh (self-driven, highest work-rate and generational talent) and Fisher (gun but has had injury setbacks) be the only ones who have demonsrated improvement?

Dow and LOB are in no-man's land. Doesn't look like they've improved despite 3-4 years in the system.

Ditto Setterfield and SPS who look to have gone backwards wth.

There's something up. I'm not sure what, but I'd love to try sacking Barker ASAP or moving him to the AFLW team. May not fix the entire problem but it's worth a try.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Setterfield - inside mid. Moved to a Wing. Loses Form Dropped
SPS- Best Games on the Ball as an outside Mid. Not played there.
Cunningham- Best game on a wing against Essendon. Never plays there

NB- SPS and Cunningham have focus and workrate issues which are compounded when they are played out of position

 

[Magruder]

I'd be asking questions of the roles we are giving young players.

We play young midfielders and we don't seem to use them, there seems to be a group of players who are allowed to win/hunt the ball and who we focus on getting the ball too and the rest seem to have to have to live off scraps.

I'm watching Dow play in the preseason games and we are looking to direct the footy his way and he's going well, we are seeing him get in dangerous spots and we are seeing the ball go his way. I'm never seeing this happen in the home and away games, we have changed his role to one where he doesn't get the footy.

What I am seeing is a midfield where we are directing it to Cripps most of the time and Walsh and sometimes Curnow and Williams and that's it.

If you want to develop players you need to make an effort to get the footy in their hands and you need to give them defined roles. Could this be what is lacking with our player development? You can see the effort we are going to to get the ball in the hands of Saad and Cripps so why not others?

How good you are in Carlton seems to be defined by what role you are allowed to play. Cripps wouldn't see much footy in Dow's semi outside periferal role that's for sure and we are all wondering what's wrong with Dow. Well maybe he can play, perhaps the role and instruction is the issue.

Gibbons was killing it and against good sides until we brought in Betts and pushed Gibbons further up the ground now Gibbons is just going ok again.

Here's some advice for Teague.

Dow was brought in as a ball winning inside midfielder. If you want him to become any good you bring him in and you play him in the center and we direct the footy his way and if that means a Curnow or a Cripps has to get out of the way or man up someone at stoppages then that's what you do. That's what your leaders do if they are genuine about the team being better, get out of the way and take on the more difficult roles and bring others into the game.

Same with Stocker, don't bring him in the side and not use him, make the effort to get the ball in his hands and make the more experienced players have to fight hard for their possessions. Make Saad or Docherty man up harder and push Williamson or Stocker to run off and hunt the footy.

If we bring in guys like Dow and Stocker and we start looking for them and give them roles where they are the focus and they fail at it then we make judgement on them.

This is how young players learn and how you improve as a team. Once again we have this huge focus on our established and older players and we are all left here wondering what is wrong with our player development.

Ironically it would be a really good time for someone like Brendon Bolton to come in now that our young players are a little more mature and we have an older core of players however he made his own mistakes and he's at a team which funny enough is a premiership favourite, nothing to see here or is there?

We need a new midfield coach. We need to have a look at our leadership and find out exactly they are looking to achieve out there and we need to have a look at how our coaching is failing to develop players and bring young players into the game.

To me it's obvious, our system is all about our established players and older players and we aren't giving youngsters an opportunity when they come into the side. We aren't looking to bring them into games and it's where we are failing.

agree. with. every. goddamn. word.

 

[skadoosh]

agree. with. every. goddamn. word.

Nail on the head. Who ever, in the history of humans became proficient at something solely by watching others? At some point or another you're going to have to do it yourself practically.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

All outside the club and 99% of the football experts see this and will agree with you. Why is it that no one in our brains trust see's it also. That is the problem.
perhaps Teague has been told Finals or bust making him reluctant to risk playing & developing the young ones.

Supporters want this as well - honestly its absurd they way things are being done. Murphy and Betts constant inclusion is insane.

Thing is though, Footy is about Facebook and Twitter supporters, not Big Footy - go to the ground and its all Cripps, Murphy and Betts supporters everywhere with their numbers and merhcandise.

Honestly can't wrap my head around it. I think its a mentality of "needing" older players to steady the ship when things are on a knife edge. Reactionary post-Bolton response.

Also think a lot of it is to do with the selection committee rather than Teague per-se.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Starting to honestly think our list is not as good and deep as what we all thought it was (injuries aside)

Whether that is Teague's fault, I don't think so..

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Starting to honestly think our list is not as good and deep as what we all thought it was (injuries aside)

Whether that is Teague's fault, I don't think so..

Recruitment & development has been ordinary.

Would still like to see them give players an opportunity in the roles that their skill level or ability warrants.

No point playing Curnow in the guts when he can’t kick it, he played as a tagger on Boak who still had it 29 times with 16 contested possessions.

If you can’t tag or can’t use it effectively then you might as well have Scott Muller in there....

 

[Hands On]

Supporters want this as well - honestly its absurd they way things are being done. Murphy and Betts constant inclusion is insane.

Thing is though, Footy is about Facebook and Twitter supporters, not Big Footy - go to the ground and its all Cripps, Murphy and Betts supporters everywhere with their numbers and merhcandise.

Honestly can't wrap my head around it. I think its a mentality of "needing" older players to steady the ship when things are on a knife edge. Reactionary post-Bolton response.

Also think a lot of it is to do with the selection committee rather than Teague per-se.

If so about selection committee overriding Teague he needs to grow some balls and fight harder. I cant imagine Barrassi, Parkin, Lethal, Clarkson etc. being overridden by the selection committee in regards to dropping under performing players.

 

[BlueBlood15]

What needs to happen here is that David needs to get ruthless. Regardless of age, reputation or anything else, find 22 players who will play with the right mentality and application. Tackling, chasing, putting your body on the line when it’s your time to go, running hard without the ball and playing with a win at all costs mentality should be non-negotiable. If players don’t reach the standard, do not play them. Allowing them to play allows others not to do the right things - it effectively condones the behaviour.
The other thing that needs to happen is that our leaders need to get on board and help Teague drive the standards. We could get Longmire, Hardwick, Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

50

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

or [insert successful coach], it won’t result in success unless the players also buy in. It’s a whole of club issue. One person won’t fix things but a number of them can collectively.

 

[smashbox gill]

I’d like to see

Back: Ben Hart

Ben Hart

Age

51

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

0.8

3star

/Chris Newman

Chris Newman

Age

44

Ht

183cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

10.7

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

238.4

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

1.8

4star

Midfield: Robert Harvey
Transition/Stoppage: Nigel Lappin
Forward: Justin Leppitsch

Justin Leppitsch

Age

50

Ht

191cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.2

3star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

0.6

1star

T

1.0

3star

Craig Macrae, Leigh Tudor as well

 

[gbatman]

Some good ideas here for sure.

In terms of drafting, we've sunk so many assets into bringing highly rated young mids(although some were traded in for cheap):

It can't all be drafting errors/busts as many of these were fairly universally consensus picks: setters SPS Dow especially.

2015: Cuningham (pick 22ish)
2016: Setterfield (5) SPS (6) Fisher (25ish)
2017: Dow (3) LOB (10)
2018: Walsh (1) Stocker (19)

Out of all those, how can Walsh (self-driven, highest work-rate and generational talent) and Fisher (gun but has had injury setbacks) be the only ones who have demonsrated improvement?

Dow and LOB are in no-man's land. Doesn't look like they've improved despite 3-4 years in the system.

Ditto Setterfield and SPS who look to have gone backwards wth.

There's something up. I'm not sure what, but I'd love to try sacking Barker ASAP or moving him to the AFLW team. May not fix the entire problem but it's worth a try.

I like what I am hearing out of the reserves match on the weekend so there are players to pick from, I just hope we pick them with a focus of developing them, not pushing them into the corners of the AFL team and playing them in roles where they will stagnate. Our more senior players need to take a step back if they are to develop.

Some players are just exceptional and don't need much development. Especially players who are good runners and can play well on the outside.

Dow needs to be played in a key onball role, probably the one Cripps and Williams are in. Setterfield needs to be played in Ed Curnow's role. Cuningham needs to be played in the role Dow and Setterfield have been in, that sweeper inside/outside mid role who goes forward.

Our chess pieces are all over the board and pressure on the coach to win is a big reason why IMO.

 

[Triniboy]

From where I sit the buck stops with the coaching staff and selection committee. No diff if Liddle wasn’t delivering a positive balance sheet he’d be out the door.
Our backline is good and could leak more goals considering the pressure they are constantly under... our forward line needs an overhaul...if they could deliver half the pressure our backline face we’d win more than we loose.
A third of our forward line chase and tackle stats are a disgrace!

 

[GT619]

I’d like to see

Back: Ben Hart/Chris Newman
Midfield: Robert Harvey
Transition/Stoppage: Nigel Lappin
Forward: Justin Leppitsch

Craig Macrae, Leigh Tudor as well

Problem is our club never does it

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I like what I am hearing out of the reserves match on the weekend so there are players to pick from, I just hope we pick them with a focus of developing them, not pushing them into the corners of the AFL team and playing them in roles where they will stagnate. Our more senior players need to take a step back if they are to develop.

Some players are just exceptional and don't need much development. Especially players who are good runners and can play well on the outside.

Dow needs to be played in a key onball role, probably the one Cripps and Williams are in. Setterfield needs to be played in Ed Curnow's role. Cuningham needs to be played in the role Dow and Setterfield have been in, that sweeper inside/outside mid role who goes forward.

Our chess pieces are all over the board and pressure on the coach to win is a big reason why IMO.

I'd amend your final comment to read

"Our chess pieces being all over the board is a big reason why the coach is under pressure to win"

Cause and effect?

 

[new_blue]

Not exclusively Barker... but since you mentioned him

But honestly, since the norties, have we ever had assistant coaches that could be a threat to the senior coach. That other clubs have come and poached from us? I think that Skinny was the last assistant coach we had poached from the club.

Who was Skinnys' replacement at the club? Would that be John Barker? Why has he been so indespensible to the club that over 10 year, as we've churned through a lot of other assistant coaches, he's managed to retain his job?

While I might sound like a broken record at times... the question needs to be asked? Why does he still have a job at the club, when 3 senior coaches and a plethora of assistant coaches have all been moved on?

If it's because he's good with the players and they all love him, move him sideways into a player morale officers role. He can still come out and work with them during training. But if it's for some other reason... questions need to be asked of the club!

I know a lot of people on this board hate SEN and also hate listening to Whately, but you can avoid most of the rubbish by listening to the podcasts.

Anyway, I recommend listening to the weekly segment called ‘Strategy with Craig Jennings’ on Thursdays during Whately’s show. Goes for about 20mins and is very insightful.

I hope we have an assistant like Craig Jennings helping out with our match day planning and strategy. I wouldn’t be against targeting him for Barkers role.

Last week he talked about an assistant coach having a life span at a club for 3-4 years. Even Clarko, Hardwick during their successful periods have constantly brought in new coaches to invigorate the players and provide fresh ideas (noting some of that was forced on them by clubs pinching their coaches) We Clearly have not done this and makes it even more difficult to justify Barkers role.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

I know a lot of people on this board hate SEN and also hate listening to Whately, but you can avoid most of the rubbish by listening to the podcasts.

Anyway, I recommend listening to the weekly segment called ‘Strategy with Craig Jennings’ on Thursdays during Whately’s show. Goes for about 20mins and is very insightful.

I hope we have an assistant like Craig Jennings helping out with our match day planning and strategy. I wouldn’t be against targeting him for Barkers role.

Last week he talked about an assistant coach having a life span at a club for 3-4 years. Even Clarko, Hardwick during their successful periods have constantly brought in new coaches to invigorate the players and provide fresh ideas (noting some of that was forced on them by clubs pinching their coaches) We Clearly have not done this and makes it even more difficult to justify Barkers role.

How you can be at a club for 11 years, he must be the best stoppages coach in the land.

I hope we pursue new assistant coaches in the off-season, I really do.

Brett Stanton for instance, why are we still bombing it in several seasons down the line?

Why do hardly any of our forwards properly lead, why do they not CRASH packs if they can't mark it and bring it down for the smalls to crumb.

How are we STILL being caught out by the bombing it in and spring off half-back and defense gets ridiculous amount of entries to defend against and Plowman etc all get blamed.

Why are we 18th for pressure, 17th for tackles, 18th for D50 to I50, ffs.

Absolutely absurd it keeps happening over and over again.

I'm just a silly campaigner in WA watching the TV and I can pick up on that, why can't the club?

Is there some grandiose plan I'm missing, so immensely frustrating to watch as a supporter.