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Universal Love David Teague

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juzz88 said:
Conspiracy time.

The players have decided Teague isn't the one after all, and are no longer playing for him.

I can't think of another explanation for our rapid regression. Granted, I'm a moron, so that could be why I can't think of another explanation.
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Would be the height of irony if that were true as they're the ones that wanted him in the first place.

I still laugh at “I have spoken to some of the leaders – some of them loved it, some of them felt it didn’t get the best out of them." in regards to the 2020 Brisbane spray.
 
Trent the flight Steward said:
Typical Carlton comment, nothing wrong with Teague as coach, you don't just keep throwing coaches out every 18 months, look at Goodwin, apparently he was on his last legs at Melbourne at the start of the year, now they are flag favs.

Problem players are
Cripps, body looks absolutely cooked after doing all that heavy work in the midfield, kicking now lacks penetration, looks slow, I'd be open to trades from wa teams
Docherty too many mistakes, shadow of the player after knee injuries.
Plowman as a defender your main job is to defend, yet he constantly has goals kicked on him too easy, looks like a dear in headlights each time he's in a one on one.
SPP looks a player, where every 6th game he shows something brilliant, but he picks and chooses too often in his effort, trade to wa with Cripps
Murphy needs to retire he's not a high half forward

Stocker, dow and O'Brien have to play every game for the rest of the year, they need confidence to know their spots not in jeopardy.
Team for the rest of the year should be
B Saad westering Jones
HB Williamson McGovern stocker
W O'Brien Williams Cottrell
Hf Martin Cripps Gibbons
F Betts McKay Fogarty
Foll dekoning Curnow Walsh (C)
Inter dow, pittonet, silvagni, Fisher
EMG Cunningham, Philp, casbault

Charlie Curnow will never play again, see what you can trade him for.
Play Cripps fwd to keep trade value
kennedy, settlefield, Newnes all the same type,only need 1 on your list
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Some salient points, however, what body of work has Teague produced for you to have confidence in his abilities?
 
Coona Blues said:
I continue to have faith in the abilities of our kids. Our development has been sh1thouse. We should not clean out the list, again. The seconds domination of a team which had been unbeaten for over a season strongly suggests our second tier development has turned the corner. O’Keefe, Power and the rest of the development team are on the right track, finally.

Teaguey and his team of coaches at the elite level have little or no system. As alluded to by another poster,we are mirroring the ill fated Ratten era. Just rely on the top core of players to get it done on ability alone. DT has an ultra simplistic and an untenable approach. “Bring your strengths”. Today’s footy is far more structured and technical than a decade or two ago. I was a supporter when he released the shackles from the Bolton tenure, however the structure worked on by Bolts was somewhat ingrained and served us well in combination with Teagueys return to the old blokes.

I was alarmed when he alluded to players developing the game plan pre season.I am now ultra alarmed. I have been a McGovern critic, while I didn’t think we needed him and we overpaid, he has not matured or developed despite being in his “golden years”. I have been blaming him, yet our three gun recruits are to different degrees languishing under our “system”.
What ******* chance do the kids have?

No issue, they can’t all play in the midfield, BUT, Stocker is a play maker. No problem playing him in defence. Had a blinder rebounding and setting up play in the twos. 70 odd percent game in a lock down deep defensive role is setting him up to fail. Does this add credence to the theory Teague does not like the boy? SOS was right, Eddie is cooked. The bloke will continue to do a few OK things and compete as best his old body can. His skills are declining. He does at least offer mentorship and hopefully is playing a significant part in developing generation next. Play him with Durdin, Honey and co. In the twos. Fast track them....please.

Murphy is a bloody conundrum. Still good enough to warrant a game if we believe we can carry a downhill skiie. Murph represents what must be eradicated from our game. Conditional and selective effort just cannot be tolerated from a leader. Most older players through history who lose half a yard of pace and carry some niggles become harder, not softer. They put the body on the line to offset the declining athleticism, or they move on. No blame for Levi, never been a smart player, virtually on one leg and probably hardly training to present for the perceived benefit of the team. Bloke is all heart and tries, but we must again move on.

When ready, the kids must play, and at least get cameos in their prime positions, not be shoehorns in to foreign roles and forced to boo or bust. Some of our kids have not been self starters, and that is on them, but a good organisation embraces and nurtures any and all character types and finds a niche for them if they have talent. We have a dearth of tall sand have been convinced BSOS didn’t want it, gee I hope that was true.

I hereby withdraw my support of David Teague as senior coach, but hell, we need a bold authoritarian to turn this “culture” around. Is it a Voss? Leppitsch? Considered the Lyon, worsfold mould, but nup would be counter productive along the Malthouse lines. Who has some names to offer?

Sorry Teaguey, nice bloke doesn’t cut it. If he assistants are a problem, it is on you to take control. You have had the chances and I am thinking that you continuing will ruin some highly viable careers.
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Whole club needs to be coached. Its cultural stemming from the top. Not ruthless winning mentality permeating from president down like the old days.

Malthouse types like Clarko would just battle our board to be let to do what they need to drive us fwd. It will end in tears, another graveyard for successful coaches

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james Dean said:
He did well in the first round of 2015 with Weits, McKay and Curnow.

Other than that he has not built a good list.

Also that trade period where he was supposed to secure Papley but didn’t was an embarrassment
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Rebuild lost its way, when they eagerly traded / forced tuohy out for marchbank.

And Trigg and Craig left, 2017ish.

The success of that 1st draft went to their head. Got too clever.

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SkyhorseTamer said:
LOB and Stocker look like being busts? Thats insane and reactionary. Go cool off. Stocker dominated the Vfl last week and was ok this week. Lob is still being de-Bolton'd. Our development has been diabolical and our game day structure ufnavourable for these flanker and wing type players up until today, it looked a bit better.
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What would you think of two top 10 draft picks from another club, if in their 4th season were not best 22? What if one of those guys had no injury concerns? Nearly everyone would be calling them a bust.

Can you elaborate on how LOB is being de-Boltoned? As in the kid who used to play regularly in the 1s and find plenty of the ball, until Teague came in and has gone backwards since he arrived.
 
Kruezing said:
Throw Russell in as well ... what value add has he brought since coming across ? ...
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Unlike Teague and the assistants, he has brought a high skill set that has delivered success at multiple clubs. I’m not sure why we have the injury list we have, but he is very experienced and has a great CV
 
smashbox gill said:
Train has derailed. Bring in another senior coach.

We need a team with the right mentality and who have proven success at well run programs

Footy Boss: Neil Balme

Coach: Michael Voss (Port)
Senior Assistant/Forward: Justin Leppitch
Midfield: Robert Harvey (Coll)
Midfield Transition: Nigel Lappin (Gee)
Back: Adam Kingsley (Rich)

Development: Luke Power
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The scary thing is that the decision on Teague and, if he is removed, his successor will be made by a board headed by a president who was part of the board that sacked Ratten, hired Malthouse, sacked Malthouse, hired Bolton, sacked Bolton and hired Teague. Whether Teague goes or not, a few above him need to fall on their sword but they won’t
 
smashbox gill said:
The same was said about Malthouse. Could he be past it?
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He’s not an old man for starters, so I hope and doubt it. I’m making a lot of assumptions here, but I think people in sports science and development, wouldn’t be as stuck in their ways as coaches who started in the 80s.

If you draft and recruit players who have a long injury history, I don’t think you should be surprised when they are regularly injured, I know that doesn’t account for all of them, but it does cross a few names off the list.

I also have no idea of the level of investment Russel had around him at Port and the Hawks, compared to us.
 
TENACIOUS said:
Teague in his press conference stated "he full supports and we have a great culture around the place."

Maybe we are the Yakult of the AFL, great culture little substance :think:

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DangerousD said:
Unlike Teague and the assistants, he has brought a high skill set that has delivered success at multiple clubs. I’m not sure why we have the injury list we have, but he is very experienced and has a great CV
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Forget about the injury list ... do you think he has improved us fitness wise ? I don’t ... where’s the value add ? ... maybe you’re seeing it if so please help me out and shine a light on it ...
 
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bmaurizio said:
Bombers, Dogs & Demons next 3 weeks ain’t going to be pretty.
Teague & Russell will get plenty of heat.Supporters will be baying for blood and
media will no doubt , spin performance result into a mad frenzy of criticism.
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Ever watch Sesame Street? One of these things is not like the other ones, surely. Let's expend all available effort to win that one first!
 
DangerousD said:
What would you think of two top 10 draft picks from another club, if in their 4th season were not best 22? What if one of those guys had no injury concerns? Nearly everyone would be calling them a bust.

Can you elaborate on how LOB is being de-Boltoned? As in the kid who used to play regularly in the 1s and find plenty of the ball, until Teague came in and has gone backwards since he arrived.
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Under Bolton lob should never have been in the ones, he wasn't ready. He coached poor overly defensive running patterns into them and then destroyed their confidence (lob and Dow) they're behind others in their draft class, for sure, but let's not go calling someone a bust until their afl career is actually over. There are countless late bloomers and slow developers in this code, this club has put its draftees through fairly extenuating circumstances development wise.
 
(sorry for the long post folks, but...)

Can't believe anyone would actually consider removing Teague at the moment. I mean we know that sacking senior coaches doesn't work right? We've done it how many times in the past 15 years? And yet most of the same problems remain. There is an entire department employing dozens of people that contributes to the performance of the team (and err.. the players.)

I'd consider about half a dozen things before even thinking about pulling the trigger on Teague.

- Re-work VFL/Development processes
- Look at player culture - are they driving and pushing each other like good teams do? If not why not?
- Assistant coaches - are they up to it? Are they working together to form a cohesive unit enough?
- Footy manager - are we getting the right skills and processes in place? Do we have the right football manager?
- Sporty psychology - are our players heads in the right space?
- Evaluation of high performance processes
- Recruiting - should always be looked at but in general I think our errors in this area have been overstated at least since SOS took over.
- Independent review - if things don't improve for the rest of the year I wouldn't mind seeing something like this where we bring in a team of 3-4 really experienced footy operators (difficulty here is finding any not already attached to a club) to investigate and report to the board.

Anyone who's worked for business would know that when things go wrong, 95% of the time it's process changes rather than personnel changes that can fix the issue. We're so eager to "sack everyone" but I'd much rather look at the way the footy department is actually being run on a day-to-day basis.

I suspect it's probably not a case of one area totally failing or it would be more obvious, but rather multiple areas running at about 80-90% and a culture of people not being challenged to get the best out of themselves and each other.

Also Teague would be learning and growing with the role - he's unlikely going to be a master coach in his second full season. He needs appropriate development, training and mentoring to reach his full potential just like any other staff member or player.

Geelong 2006/2007 same senior coach.
Richmond 2016/2017 same senior coach
Collingwood 2017/2018 same senior coach (and now 2021 - Buckley went from dud to genius to dud again, really?)
Melbourne 2020/2021 same senior coach.

Just so, sooooo much more to it than the senior coach nowadays.
 
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There has to be something to these twenty point losses, The Eagles defeat today was larger than the combined 4 losses by Carlton this year, yet the heat will come on us because we're the "basket case", not the other teams who have given up 50+ point smashings. That's just selling papers, getting hits, all headlines no substance. In every one of those losses, we were riding a comeback, only to fall short due to crucial moments/mistakes; I've made the analogy before but it is like Al Pacino's "game of inches" speech in Any Given Sunday. The only problem is our team is yet to buy into the "inches", don't seem to want to sacrifice for it, Richmond do, Port do, and Melbourne are now.
It's definately not a ridiculous statement, but with a level of composure as yet to be demonstrated by this team, we could be sitting on top with 6 straight wins, in every game the moment came and passed. Sticks, Judd, Diesel, Kouta and Jezza would have all seen it and acted, just as Parko would have. Our immediate problem is that none of our leaders can either see the moment, nor adapt to it, and have blind faith in 'process'. No one ever won a VC with a process driven response, it was delivered by a composed, instinctive reaction to extraordinary circumstances, leadership that inspires, not hand wringing and looks to the Heavens.

C our coach has been found out, lacks the confidence in his players to deliver, will only trust the older brigade
O the opposition are allowed to run rampant for sections of the game which then define the result
M mental strength, we lack belief in ourselves, become flustered, reactionary
P polish, cannot finish off in a professional manner, too much hand wringing, not enough skill, it's called football fella's, to get to this level one has to be able to kick the bloody thing, it's not rocket science
O opportunity, carpe diem, to seize the moment
S strategic, to have a response, the opposition know that all it takes to beat Carlton is 15 minutes of sustained pressure, we can't handle it and buckle, then all that is required is to hang on to the lead. In the words of the former President, "..everyone knows, and they're all talking about it..." come up with a response that counters the manic fifteen minutes, that's the coaches job
U move aside the old blokes, God love them, but they are not the future, play the untried youth like Ramsay, Philip, Durden, etc, etc, we'll never know if we don't see them
R this season is a right off, yes by some miracle we could play finals, but what's the use if it's lead on the back of a bunch of old blokes on their last legs, I would much rather play those who represent the future and decide on the results of the back end of the season, how many times has it been said that Murphy, Curnow, Levi and Jones will not be in the next Premiership team so why do we stick with them?
E enjoyment, speaks for itself, let them play footy, let them enjoy themselves, a game is defined as being a distraction, an amusing diversion

As the dawn breaks on another ANZAC day, I am reminded, it's only a game...
 
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We all had high hopes for 2021, however so did 17 other teams. 3 of the 4 teams we have been defeated by at the start of the year were expected to finish 1,2 & 3 and then Collingwood was very bad. The calls to blow up the joint when we are playing basically as expected.

I would be naive to say nothing is wrong and everything is rosy, our lack of effort in the 2nd quarter needs explaining.. Why Betts & Murphy continue to be selected needs explaining, The poor performance from our leaders needs explaining..

But sacking Teague achieves nothing, either does allowing the media pressure to build and build again. Someone senior from the club needs to be on the front foot backing him in strongly ASAP, before the Monday night footy shows.

Perhaps we are slightly behind schedule with where we thought our list was, and everyone thought we needed to build a list around Cripps to be a premiership team, when it fact it will be Walsh & McKay which will be the backbone of our premiership tilt.
 
BlueBlood15 said:
The scary thing is that the decision on Teague and, if he is removed, his successor will be made by a board headed by a president who was part of the board that sacked Ratten, hired Malthouse, sacked Malthouse, hired Bolton, sacked Bolton and hired Teague. Whether Teague goes or not, a few above him need to fall on their sword but they won’t
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Fish rots at the head.

All our issues start at board level. MLG first.
Judd second.

Judd was part of the get rid of ratten campaign. Helped appoint Bolton and now Teague. Major factor in rebuild buy in.

If we want change it starts there

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