Universal Love David Teague

[Coops93]

I'm just thinking out loud here, maybe I'm wide of the mark.

Perhaps Teague is under pressure for his job a little earlier than you'd usually expect for an inexperienced coach. Imo what's working against him now is how he was hired. We all recall the training wheels comment by Judd, and I think that was the thought of the board. But the groundswell of support that came for Teague from fans, media and players was just too much to ignore. Even during the whole "Teague train" movement we had an ITK or two mention that the board weren't really sold on him, to the ire of most of us. Eventually they did give him the job.

Earlier this year the president said finals were the expectation, not the goal. Further clarifying the point by saying we have the playing list to do it, reading between the lines to me that means if they don't it's not he payers fault. If you take it by his wording and implication, anything less than finals is a failure of the coaching.

So now what we have is a coach who didn't initially fit the criteria for the position as expected by the board and was chosen (at least partially) because of external pressure and who's at grave risk of failing to meet very publicly outlined expectations.

I think Teague is in strife, though I don't know if that's fair or not.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Another thing I noticed with Dimma on the series - he's clearly leading the Assistants. They report to him and him only, he's in charge of developing them as well. It's a genuine team.

Once again, if this is a league-wide mindset, then a coach wanting to get rid of an Assistant is an admission of failure imo; it's a form of giving up on your people. Every chance Teague backed himself in to lead and develop his own team.

It hasn't worked out though.

yes and this is a failure by Lloyd and Liddle for empowering a young inexperienced coach that heavily, they should have taken the decision out of his hands.

 

[Coops93]

I agree he's not coaching very well. I just don't think the answer is sacking him. Coaches, like players have form - he's in poor form.

We need to stop sacking coaches ffs.

I agree sacking coaches frequently isn't ideal, however, what if he actually isn't a good coach? Should we hang on to him because sacking coaches frequently = bad?

I'm not suggesting he is bad, just that it's a fine line to walk. If they don't believe he is the guy then sacking him is the best option even if he is still just young in coaching terms. If they're unsure/50-50 on him then I'd rather keep him and replace the assistants. Give him a chance with new voices.

For comparisons sake, the Lions sacked 2 young coaches before finding their guy. You could accuse them of being impatient like us at the time, but in retrospect it's looking like the best thing for everyone involved - including Voss and Leppa, who now seem to be far better having learned at other clubs.

 

[Red Bull]

I agree he's not coaching very well. I just don't think the answer is sacking him. Coaches, like players have form - he's in poor form.

We need to stop sacking coaches ffs.

Well, if we got our appointments right we wouldn’t have too.
It was clear from Judd’s “training wheels” comments that initially Teague wasn’t the clubs choice.
Cue the Teague Train fan driven bullshit and a push from old mates within and hey presto, Teague lands the job and here we are.
If by seasons end it’s clear Teague isn’t up to the task, the worst thing we could do is NOT sack him ...

 

[Iamcarlton]

I agree he's not coaching very well. I just don't think the answer is sacking him. Coaches, like players have form - he's in poor form.

We need to stop sacking coaches ffs.

I just dont think we have found the right coaching group for our players .
Bolton too defensive Teague too offensive we havent done our playing list over the journey of this rebuild any favors imo .

I was of a similar mindset last year thinking we need to give Teague plenty of time .
But we just arent seeing real team improvement in key areas we play the same way and lose the same way all too often .
We see individual players improving weve added nice players from other clubs which should mean team play improving but its not happening because our system has too many faults .

 

[Iamcarlton]

I'm just thinking out loud here, maybe I'm wide of the mark.

Perhaps Teague is under pressure for his job a little earlier than you'd usually expect for an inexperienced coach. Imo what's working against him now is how he was hired. We all recall the training wheels comment by Judd, and I think that was the thought of the board. But the groundswell of support that came for Teague from fans, media and players was just too much to ignore. Even during the whole "Teague train" movement we had an ITK or two mention that the board weren't really sold on him, to the ire of most of us. Eventually they did give him the job.

Earlier this year the president said finals were the expectation, not the goal. Further clarifying the point by saying we have the playing list to do it, reading between the lines to me that means if they don't it's not he payers fault. If you take it by his wording and implication, anything less than finals is a failure of the coaching.

So now what we have is a coach who didn't initially fit the criteria for the position as expected by the board and was chosen (at least partially) because of external pressure and who's at grave risk of failing to meet very publicly outlined expectations.

I think Teague is in strife, though I don't know if that's fair or not.

No i think theres a lot of merit in this you can see it in his team selections and positional moves .

 

[chunkylover53]

I agree sacking coaches frequently isn't ideal, however, what if he actually isn't a good coach? Should we hang on to him because sacking coaches frequently = bad?

I'm not suggesting he is bad, just that it's a fine line to walk. If they don't believe he is the guy then sacking him is the best option even if he is still just young in coaching terms. If they're unsure/50-50 on him then I'd rather keep him and replace the assistants. Give him a chance with new voices.

For comparisons sake, the Lions sacked 2 young coaches before finding their guy. You could accuse them of being impatient like us at the time, but in retrospect it's looking like the best thing for everyone involved - including Voss and Leppa, who now seem to be far better having learned at other clubs.

How can one be so certain that a coach is a good one for their club? We were certain Mick was a good coach because, well, look at his history - his last game with Collingwood was even a Grand Final, we know how that turned out for us.

Voss was well gone before Lions started their rebuild. Leppitsch was sacked mid-rebuild much like we did with Bolton. Brendan McCartney similar story.

We certainly shouldn't hang onto him forever but ffs he's coached what, 40-odd games? Richmond fans wanted Dimma gone in 2014, 2015, then wanted him dead after 2016. It was his 7th year before he did anything outstanding with his list.

Our list is still relatively young, as is our coach. The whole club is making mistakes, it would be too trigger happy to sack Teague this year.

If we go balls-up and lose players next year, then that's a different story.

yes and this is a failure by Lloyd and Liddle for empowering a young inexperienced coach that heavily, they should have taken the decision out of his hands.

Agreed, mistakes have been made.

Panic stations are too high imo. Our 3 best players are 23, 23 and 20, our captains are 26 and 27, Saad/Williams are 26. Our veterans don't contribute and are about to be moved on, it may not seem like it but we actually have the luxury of time on our side to fix these errors.

Well, if we got our appointments right we wouldn’t have too.
If by seasons end it’s clear Teague isn’t up to the task, the worst thing we could do is NOT sack him ...

Disagree. So many coaches have showed literally nothing in their first few seasons. Buckley caused an exodus within 2 seasons then proceeded to go backwards every year.

Invest in your people to get to the level they need to be at, if it turns out they can't get there, so be it. Sacking him after 2.5 years is a lazy solution.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Personally, we can't keep changing coaches when we are not performing where expect. It sucks but we gotta stick fat with Teague and surround him with good solid and well credential assistants like what they did with Dimma.

Players need consistency, can't always have different gameplans every 2-3 years.

For examples:

Sydney - They hired Don Pyke (Took Adelaide to the GF in 2017 and is reportedly well liked by the younger kids).
Melbourne - Bringing in Mark Williams (Was there during Richmond premiership run and Melbourne looking like a top 2 finish)

 

[Coops93]

How can one be so certain that a coach is a good one for their club? We were certain Mick was a good coach because, well, look at his history - his last game with Collingwood was even a Grand Final, we know how that turned out for us.

Voss was well gone before Lions started their rebuild. Leppitsch was sacked mid-rebuild much like we did with Bolton. Brendan McCartney similar story.

We certainly shouldn't hang onto him forever but ffs he's coached what, 40-odd games? Richmond fans wanted Dimma gone in 2014, 2015, then wanted him dead after 2016. It was his 7th year before he did anything outstanding with his list.

Our list is still relatively young, as is our coach. The whole club is making mistakes, it would be too trigger happy to sack Teague this year.

If we go balls-up and lose players next year, then that's a different story.

Like I said I'm not for sacking him, I'm undecided. My point with this discussion was there is a balance needed. We shouldn't hang on to him for the sake of it, but dumping him too early is equally bad. Hanging on to a bad coach is not good, but sacking a coach is also not good.

I'm not sure how they'll parse through what's growing pains vs bad coaching but we have to have faith they will... We don't really have any other choice.

 

[El Topo]

I just dont think we have found the right coaching group for our players .
Bolton too defensive Teague too offensive we havent done our playing list over the journey of this rebuild any favors imo .

I was of a similar mindset last year thinking we need to give Teague plenty of time .
But we just arent seeing real team improvement in key areas we play the same way and lose the same way all too often .
We see individual players improving weve added nice players from other clubs which should mean team play improving but its not happening because our system has too many faults .

Herein lies the rub - we're left naming head coaches because they're the ones proffered as the fall-guy. Just like with the draft and salary cap, we're about 20 yrs behind the good clubs in embracing a professional and well resourced football department.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Personally, we can't keep changing coaches when we are not performing where expect. It sucks but we gotta stick fat with Teague and surround him with good solid and well credential assistants like what they did with Dimma.

Players need consistency, can't always have different gameplans every 2-3 years.

For examples:

Sydney - They hired Don Pyke (Took Adelaide to the GF in 2017 and is reportedly well liked by the younger kids).
Melbourne - Bringing in Mark Williams (Was there during Richmond premiership run and Melbourne looking like a top 2 finish)

So by the examples of Pyke & Choco who fits the bill to help Teague ?

The obvious one is Ross Lyon if he would take up a mentor type role (doubt it). This pairing would be a good balance between offense & defense.

Who else would be available that has coached teams to grand finals in the past.

Nathan Buckley......

 

[smashbox gill]

Going on 3 season and Teague still hasn’t been able to fix a 5 goal run. Imo it’s time to move on

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Going on 3 season and Teague still hasn’t been able to fix a 5 goal run. Imo it’s time to move on

2 And a half season's if we are to be fair.

Personally I think winning 6 out of our remaining games should be enough for Teague to retain his job for another season (you never know with this club)


Yes we are not getting the wins we have wanted so far under DT, but we are not getting flogged weekly unlike the previous two coaches either

The grass is not always greener

#HellNoToClarko

 

[mochacinolatte]

So by the examples of Pyke & Choco who fits the bill to help Teague ?

The obvious one is Ross Lyon if he would take up a mentor type role (doubt it). This pairing would be a good balance between offense & defense.

Who else would be available that has coached teams to grand finals in the past.

Nathan Buckley......

Tough call lookiing at the current landscape of quality assitances going around.

Maybe Woosha will do something? He just got recently hired.

But Ross Lyon would make very appealing assitance, just listening him on the footy shows speaks volume of his current game knowledge.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

2 And a half season's if we are to be fair.

Personally I think winning 6 out of our remaining games should be enough for Teague to retain his job for another season (you never know with this club)


Yes we are not getting the wins we have wanted so far under DT, but we are not getting flogged weekly unlike the previous two coaches either

The grass is not always greener

#HellNoToClarko

As a discussion point, we win 2 games of the remainder and Clarkson wants a new challenge/ to distance himself from Kennett for whatever reason, why is he a hell no. Seriously, he at the very least knows how to set up a professional football department and what it takes to run a successful club. The hawks no fuss have entered a rebuild and are doing well enough. His 'brand' isn't dour congestion and it isn't wild attack, I just don't get it. He may like the ruthlessness to much but at the moment idc, carlton has none of that killer instinct or ruthlessness.

 

[smashbox gill]

2 And a half season's if we are to be fair.

Personally I think winning 6 out of our remaining games should be enough for Teague to retain his job for another season (you never know with this club)


Yes we are not getting the wins we have wanted so far under DT, but we are not getting flogged weekly unlike the previous two coaches either

The grass is not always greener

#HellNoToClarko

That’s because of where our list is at. Under the previous coach we were far to young and inexperienced. We should be on our way, we haven’t taken a top 8 scalp yet

 

[Gavstar]

Tough call lookiing at the current landscape of quality assitances going around.

Maybe Woosha will do something? He just got recently hired.

But Ross Lyon would make very appealing assitance, just listening him on the footy shows speaks volume of his current game knowledge.

Don't think Lyon wants to be anything but a head coach.

Leppa isnt' coming after the double approach.

Lappin, Knights, Hickmott, McVeigh, Laidler would all be on my talk to list as assistant coaches

Sumich? or is he too bitter from being overlooked?

 

[Accidental genius]

Don't think Lyon wants to be anything but a head coach.

Leppa isnt' coming after the double approach.

Lappin, Knights, Hickmott, McVeigh, Laidler would all be on my talk to list as assistant coaches

Sumich? or is he too bitter from being overlooked?

Which club is hickmott at currently?

Edit: west coast wafl coach since 2020.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Don't think Lyon wants to be anything but a head coach.

Leppa isnt' coming after the double approach.

Lappin, Knights, Hickmott, McVeigh, Laidler would all be on my talk to list as assistant coaches

Sumich? or is he too bitter from being overlooked?

why would Leppa rule himself out? Lenny Hayes left GWS for personal reasons where he spent 5 years as a midfield coach, he would definitely be worth a phone call.

 

[Malifice]

The way I see it, this year is a write off already so no point changing now.

Get Clarko in as a coaching director end of season. This shit continues say 6 games into next season, the axe can fall then and we've got an experienced coach right there to step in.

We have no discernible forward or defensive structure at present. We get dozens of repeat entries for naught and the oppo just waltz it down the other end for easy goals after we waste energy for little result.

While we're a mid or two short, we've got the Coleman leader, AA fullback and Walsh and Cripps in the middle and a rejuvenated Eddie Betts.

This is 100 percent a game plan and coaching issue at present. Our zones are terrible - compare what we do with the Demons rolling zone for example.

My faith in Teague is wavering fast.

 

[smashbox gill]

The way I see it, this year is a write off already so no point changing now.

Get Clarko in as a coaching director end of season. This sh*t continues say 6 games into next season, the axe can fall then and we've got an experienced coach right there to step in.

We have no discernible forward or defensive structure at present. We get dozens of repeat entries for naught and the oppo just waltz it down the other end for easy goals after we waste energy for little result.

While we're a mid or two short, we've got the Coleman leader, AA fullback and Walsh and Cripps in the middle and a rejuvenated Eddie Betts.

This is 100 percent a game plan and coaching issue at present. Our zones are terrible - compare what we do with the Demons rolling zone for example.

My faith in Teague is wavering fast.

It’s 100% game plan.
Look at Essendon and how much they have improved with a good structure.
They have brought in quality assistants in Giansiracusa and Caracella to assist Rutter and look at the improvement.
We have a shocking game plan

Saad hated that Rutten wanted him to defend first attack second; so he forced a trade. Looks like they were right

 

[TheReal99prelim]

All I'm asking for is a"yes" or a "no"

B70 and/or OR...is there genuine hope come seasons end that we will make substantial (and hopefully successful) coaching appointments

Just asking for a friend

 

[I bleed Blue]

If/when Buckley is sacked we should seriously consider him as a senior assistant.

was an assistant during Pies flag.

Took over as head coach, through a mini rebuild and was a dom sheed kick away from taking his side to a flag.

Besides his club absolutely cooking their list management and salary cap he has always seemed to get the best from his players.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Also what’s Brad Scott doing?

Squeezed everything out of a fairly average north list for years. Really got them to over achieve for the list that they had.

could do much much worse than get him in as the senior assistant

 

[Triniboy]

Personally, we can't keep changing coaches when we are not performing where expect. It sucks but we gotta stick fat with Teague and surround him with good solid and well credential assistants like what they did with Dimma.

Players need consistency, can't always have different gameplans every 2-3 years.

For examples:

Sydney - They hired Don Pyke (Took Adelaide to the GF in 2017 and is reportedly well liked by the younger kids).
Melbourne - Bringing in Mark Williams (Was there during Richmond premiership run and Melbourne looking like a top 2 finish)

I’m of the belief Williams is the major contributing factor why Melb are flying...