Universal Love David Teague

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

How long do you give Teague to demonstrate he is capable of a football concept as fundamental as selection integrity?
Or is that something that only comes with time too?

Who is on the selection committee? Who gets final say if there's disagreement?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Mathieson, another poster alluded to a board member being friendly with Clarko, before that another poster alluded to Mathieson wanting to go all in on Clarkson.

I may have my facts incorrectly, but all the dots connect imo.

Thought the club and the board decided to cut apl ties with that snake ???

He was the one responsible for the Malthouse disaster which set this club back years ...

I think most coaches should get at least 3 FULL seasons to show their worth.

Get the frustrations with the game plan and stubborn playing players out of position, but if Teague can learn and grow from those past mistakes (which hopefully he has based on the last fortnight), why not stick fat with him, even if Clarkson is supposedly gettable ?


Feels like it would going back to bad habits for this club to give Teague the flick and replace him with Clarkson

 

[blueboy25]

The same as every other Carlton coach post Parkin.
Your point?

My point is that twice we have gone for the "Coaching wizard" who has won multiple flags elsewhere and where did it get us? In a worse spot then before they arrived.

Let's look at the last few premiership coaches
Beveridge - young, no premiership coaching success elsewhere.
Hardwick - young, battled early and has now won 3 out of the last 4
Simpson - young coach, perennial finalists and won a flag in 2018.

These guys were backed by the club and not given the flick after 2-3 years even when there has been external pressure.

Do you think Ratten was poorly treated by getting the sack?

 

[JustaBattler]

Thought the club and the board decided to cut apl ties with that snake ???

He was the one responsible for the Malthouse disaster which set this club back years ...

I think most coaches should get at least 3 FULL seasons to show their worth.

Get the frustrations with the game plan and stubborn playing players out of position, but if Teague can learn and grow from those past mistakes (which hopefully he has based on the last fortnight), why not stick fat with him, even if Clarkson is supposedly gettable ?


Feels like it would going back to bad habits for this club to give Teague the flick and replace him with Clarkson

 

[RoyalBlues]

Let's look at the last few premiership coaches
Beveridge - young, no premiership coaching success elsewhere.
Hardwick - young, battled early and has now won 3 out of the last 4
Simpson - young coach, perennial finalists and won a flag in 2018.

All of whom were mentored by, and trained as assistant coaches to . . . Alistair Clarkson

 

[gab213]

Thought the club and the board decided to cut apl ties with that snake ???

He was the one responsible for the Malthouse disaster which set this club back years ...

I think most coaches should get at least 3 FULL seasons to show their worth.

Get the frustrations with the game plan and stubborn playing players out of position, but if Teague can learn and grow from those past mistakes (which hopefully he has based on the last fortnight), why not stick fat with him, even if Clarkson is supposedly gettable ?


Feels like it would going back to bad habits for this club to give Teague the flick and replace him with Clarkson

You're investing too much emotional energy into this Elmer. I'd prefer we didn't get Clarkson and give Teague another year but at the end of the day it's a decision that will be made by those at the club who are responsible. We are just supporters, we can express a preference but that's where it ends. losing it here won't change anything.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Thought the club and the board decided to cut apl ties with that snake ???

He was the one responsible for the Malthouse disaster which set this club back years ...

I think most coaches should get at least 3 FULL seasons to show their worth.

Get the frustrations with the game plan and stubborn playing players out of position, but if Teague can learn and grow from those past mistakes (which hopefully he has based on the last fortnight), why not stick fat with him, even if Clarkson is supposedly gettable ?


Feels like it would going back to bad habits for this club to give Teague the flick and replace him with Clarkson

You'd think so, I'm just regurgitating what others have said, whether or not there's any truth to that, who knows.

As for Teague, its a tough decision really, the main counter argument to getting rid of him would be, he hasn't had the support he should of had in the first place.

No mentor, average assistant coaches at best etc.

Clarkson does seem very intent and honorable about contracts, so assuming he does, I could see the review bringing in a new head of football, new assistant coaches etc and seeing how Teague goes in 2022, assuming we didn't make the 8, I could see the club getting rid of him and going for Clarkson, but really who knows at this point, all speculation.

Easily the toughest decision the club will have to make in recent memory, we have a rock solid list albeit a few holes, just need the right coaches to guide it to where it belongs to be, whether that is Teague or not is up to him in the next 7 weeks and the review.

 

[blueboy25]

All of whom were mentored by, and trained as assistant coaches to . . . Alistair Clarkson

So was...............Brendan Bolton

 

[sweetchoif]

The same as every other Carlton coach post Parkin.
Your point?

The point is this mentality of wasting millions of dollars and parachuting in premiership coaches from other clubs is not the guaranteed answer to success. In fact the evidence suggests it probably doesn’t work in the majority of instances

so why is this club so obsessed with doing it?

 

[RoyalBlues]

So was...............Brendan Bolton

. . . . I like those odds

 

[gab213]

So was...............Brendan Bolton

Who you can't really compare with the rest as he was walking into a club with a list that was being totally gutted.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

You're investing too much emotional energy into this Elmer. I'd prefer we didn't get Clarkson and give Teague another year but at the end of the day it's a decision that will be made by those at the club who are responsible. We are just supporters, we can express a preference but that's where it ends. losing it here won't change anything.

You are probably right.

As it stands right now, I still think Teague will get another season.
Yes we haven't has as many wins as we hoped so far, but the gap between our best and worst performances is narrowing, and we have not had enough bad losses/thrashings to justify replacing Teague at this stage.
A bit of stability and patience from the board and some supporters would be nice.

I am still going to buy my membership and go to games even if Donald Trump is our coach lol, but I firmly believe Teague can be our next premiership coach, given time and better support staff/assistants.

If the club decide to move Teague on, i can live with that too, but I just hope the club only does it as a last resort.

 

[gab213]

The point is this mentality of wasting millions of dollars and parachuting in premiership coaches from other clubs is not the guaranteed answer to success. In fact the evidence suggests it probably doesn’t work in the majority of instances

so why is this club so obsessed with doing it?

Are you sure that we're so obsessed? 13 of our past 20 years have been managed by rookie coaches. 4 of our 6 coaches in that time were rookies.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

My point is that twice we have gone for the "Coaching wizard" who has won multiple flags elsewhere and where did it get us? In a worse spot then before they arrived.

Let's look at the last few premiership coaches
Beveridge - young, no premiership coaching success elsewhere.
Hardwick - young, battled early and has now won 3 out of the last 4
Simpson - young coach, perennial finalists and won a flag in 2018.

These guys were backed by the club and not given the flick after 2-3 years even when there has been external pressure.

Do you think Ratten was poorly treated by getting the sack?

For every success story there are many more failures.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

The point is this mentality of wasting millions of dollars and parachuting in premiership coaches from other clubs is not the guaranteed answer to success. In fact the evidence suggests it probably doesn’t work in the majority of instances

so why is this club so obsessed with doing it?

Going by the reactions amongst some here you'd think Clarkson was already in the chair. I haven't seen or heard any reliable information that justifies the blowback.

 

[Lace_Out]

I get the anti Clarkson agenda amongst the haters. He is a campaigner after all...


a campaigner with four flags.

And 5 GF in total.. 4 in a row..

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[TENACIOUS]

I get the anti Clarkson agenda amongst the haters. He is a campaigner after all...


a campaigner with four flags.

So far...

 

[chunkylover53]

Jeez, wish we could "fall into" a top four finish....

"sold the house for wingard, scrimshaw and scully"

You're kidding right?

Scully and Scrimshaw cost them a future third rounder. For both players! Pick 52 in a draft that only went to Pick 65....

And what's Burton done in the last three years to indicate they were wrong to cash in? They overpaid a bit for Wingard, sure, but what club doesn't do this on the odd occasion?

Even then - is "rebuilding" all about drafting with high picks, or about developing the kids you do draft? Jiath, Worpel, Moore, Koschitzke, Greaves, Day, Morris, Grainger-Barrass, Newcombe all showing good signs. Maginness, Reeves, Downie and Brockman developing in the reserves. Looks a lot like a rebuild to me....

Straight sets is not a top four finish..

Overpaying for Wingard during a period when they desperately needed high draft picks. They completely misread the situation. Context is required.

Yes, the crux of rebuilding is investing in the top-end of the draft.

Talking up that group of players is an interesting tactic, besides Jiath and Worpel it's one of the more uninspiring lists of young players I've seen recently. Also you're missing my point, they're rebuilding now for sure, but they should have started 4 years ago instead of giving away draft picks and topping up with mature players year after year. If they had gone close to a flag I'd accept it as a good risk/reward situation, but they got nowhere and completely misjudged their list, now it's a bit of a rabble.

What people like being is the smartest in the room so a lot of supporters talk absolute sh*t, the hawks as a whole organisation decided to top up and go for another flag, it failed. They then no fussed started a rebuild. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of that. There's no gross mismanagement. They took a risk and it didn't pay off. Not every risk can...

You can brush it off as a calculated risk that is no biggie all you want. Reality is they didn't get close to where they thought they'd be and have set themselves back 4-5 years because of it.

Somehow the continual fascination with big name messiahs from Carlton fans continue to surprise me. We saw the exact same movie with Mick not even that long ago. Best coach of all time, succession plan etc etc.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Don't get your knickers in a knot Elmer, the club will be ok either way...

Trust the Board make the right decision

Fair enough. And yes I do trust the board and the review panel.

This weekend's game is pretty crucial. We need to start beating teams in the 8/flag contenders, and I think we can catch a tired Geelong on the hop.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Straight sets is not a top four finish..

Overpaying for Wingard during a period when they desperately needed high draft picks. They completely misread the situation. Context is required.

Yes, the crux of rebuilding is investing in the top-end of the draft.

Talking up that group of players is an interesting tactic, besides Jiath and Worpel it's one of the more uninspiring lists of young players I've seen recently. Also you're missing my point, they're rebuilding now for sure, but they should have started 4 years ago instead of giving away draft picks and topping up with mature players year after year. If they had gone close to a flag I'd accept it as a good risk/reward situation, but they got nowhere and completely misjudged their list, now it's a bit of a rabble.




You can brush it off as a calculated risk that is no biggie all you want. Reality is they didn't get close to where they thought they'd be and have set themselves back 4-5 years because of it.

Somehow the continual fascination with big name messiahs from Carlton fans continue to surprise me. We saw the exact same movie with Mick not even that long ago. Best coach of all time, succession plan etc etc.

I cannot believe you're trying to criticise Clarkson on the basis that he should have instigated a rebuild in 2018 when they went on to finish top 4.

Spare me the "straight sets" stuff. Who gives a shit. End of the home and away season they were 4th on the ladder with 15 wins and a percentage of 120. They lost to the team that finished first on the ladder (who won the premiership in the years either side of 2018...) and the team that finished 5th.

They had one down year, gave it another shake and were well and truly validated by finishing top 4, then slid a little and elected to start a rebuild.

What is it you expect, that a senior coach and club be able to predict with absolute certainty whether they're winning a premiership the next year or if they're only going to finish 4th, and based on that prescience instigate a full fledged rebuild?

 

[chunkylover53]

I cannot believe you're trying to criticise Clarkson on the basis that he should have instigated a rebuild in 2018 when they went on to finish top 4.

Spare me the "straight sets" stuff. Who gives a sh*t. End of the home and away season they were 4th on the ladder with 15 wins and a percentage of 120. They lost to the team that finished first on the ladder (who won the premiership in the years either side of 2018...) and the team that finished 5th.

They had one down year, gave it another shake and were well and truly validated by finishing top 4, then slid a little and elected to start a rebuild.

What is it you expect, that a senior coach and club be able to predict with absolute certainty whether they're winning a premiership the next year or if they're only going to finish 4th, and based on that prescience instigate a full fledged rebuild?

The commentary throughout the whole year was that they were never going to be good enough to seriously contend.. and they weren't.

Who gives a shit? Probably most sane supporters. If you're running with that logic then Richmond actually finished 3rd in 2017 and the Premiers shouldn't get the last pick in the draft. H&A means **** all at the end of the day, especially when you don't fire a shot in your two finals. Also you realise their percentage was the 2nd lowest of any other team in the 8? They predictably got bowed out in straight sets with an ageing list. If you think that's validation then good for you, I guess.

Yes, I do expect that - it's literally their full time jobs and are paid hundreds of thousands to do so to make the correct decisions.

 

[BigFrizz36]

How long do you give Teague to demonstrate he is capable of a football concept as fundamental as selection integrity?
Or is that something that only comes with time too?

Hey cookie

Looking for an update on the bed front this week?

Is it made/unmade?

Did teague make it?

So many questions, so few people to be able to blame.

 

[BigFrizz36]

You'd think so, I'm just regurgitating what others have said, whether or not there's any truth to that, who knows.

As for Teague, its a tough decision really, the main counter argument to getting rid of him would be, he hasn't had the support he should of had in the first place.

No mentor, average assistant coaches at best etc.

Clarkson does seem very intent and honorable about contracts, so assuming he does, I could see the review bringing in a new head of football, new assistant coaches etc and seeing how Teague goes in 2022, assuming we didn't make the 8, I could see the club getting rid of him and going for Clarkson, but really who knows at this point, all speculation.

Easily the toughest decision the club will have to make in recent memory, we have a rock solid list albeit a few holes, just need the right coaches to guide it to where it belongs to be, whether that is Teague or not is up to him in the next 7 weeks and the review.

Surely if you are just regurgitating what others have said theirvis some sort of onus on you to differentiate as to whether it is true or not and not just present it as fact.

 

[Coona Blues]

Clarkson is a significant reason why Hawthorn's list is so poor, he was the instigator to bring the likes of Wingard, Scully, Patton across to the Hawks

He is an ego maniac who would demand too much power at the club, esp with regards to drafting and trading.

Finally, it has to be said, Teague has not had enough time to proven himself as coach or not. It's not really his fault if some supporters have way to high expectations (I would argue in some cases unreasonable)

We have nothing to lose by giving Teague another year with a better group of assistants

Question?
Is it possible that one of the smartest and best coaches in history may have learned from past mistakes? Our list is all but full of quality now, he would tweak, he wouldn’t be reaching for bargains. It wouldn’t be necessary.
I love Harry McKay, but do you think Clarkson is more likely to devise physical and mental drills to turn him from a possible Coleman medallist to a Franklin level generational forward? No flakey routines or mental fragility after a Clarko preseason, I would wager. Put a fit Charlie beside him and look out competition.

Would be fascinating to see how he would use our midfielders.Suspect Walsh would be more wing, but who gets inside? Players would be tried in different spots. It has been astounding the lack of creativity with our list. It would e changed up, big time. Talking more positional than personnl.

 

[jj1978]

Salty Malty has had his say to the Hun relating to the Clarko handover and giving his view from his experience... some tidbits.

• he sees worrying similarities between Hawthorn manoeuvres and the arrangement that led to Nathan Buckley taking charge of the Magpies
• "Both clubs didn’t want to lose their favourite sons, so the most obvious thing to do is keep them at the club", “But it seems to be a very quick response and no doubt Mitchell would have mentioned that he had at least been sounded out about the Collingwood job.”
• suspects Kennett dominated his board in the same way Eddie did
• “Would Mitchell have got the Collingwood job? The hint I heard was no.”
• Collingwood chief executive Gary Pert “made no secret of it that I was no longer the coach, even though I was still coaching”.

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