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Davis Cup

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Congratulations to Lleyton on a fantastic effort Friday night. One of the turly great Davis Cup matches. Also congrats to Sainter ... I only managed the second set of Rafter's match before falling asleep
wink.gif


It was disappointing to lose in the end but give the Spanish some credit for the quality of tennis they played, winning over there was always going to be tough. On the crowd, it is Davis Cup and we are playing in their country. If they choose to boo every point we win then we just have to cop that on the chin. The one thing I thought they should have cracked down on was the noise between first and second serves. Although the umpires did a better job of this in the reverse singles.

I think that the sportsmanship shown in the Ferrero v Hewitt match was excellent to see after all the other belly aching from both sides.

As for Phillipuseless, he single-handedly won the Cup for us last year and all the talk about him not being there is crap. Let's hope under the new captain/coach old differences can be put aside. A singles lineup between Rafter, Phillipuseless and Hewitt would stack up well against almost any other country in the world.
 
I was just wondering why Spain got to have the davis cup final at home? Do they like toss a coin to work it out or something?? Does anyone know how they work it out?

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"Collingwood forever"
 
grendel ! the reason roche sat with the rafter camp at the us open is because he was rafters coach ! that was just another example of phillipoussis immature ways, hopefully he doesnt play for australia again as you cant get 2 better blokes than hewitt and rafter, who love their davis cup and would put their country abouve anything, unlike phillipoussis

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Essendon - The greatest club with the greatest coach in the league ! Carlton- absolute hypocrites who accuse others of being cheats only for it to be found later that carlton are the "serial salary cap breachers" as quoted by our president, haha
 
well at least the davis cup in spain has ended the debate on the worst supporters debate.the spanish win it hands down!
i stayed up and watched the reverse singles last night hewitt put up a great effort a typical never say die attitude but 3 costly errors twice in the 4th set when he had 3 break points and a dble fault which gave the spanish 2 break points in the 4th in which hewitt saved but only to lose after the 4th break point in the same game.
but overall the lad did us proud and he will make it to no1 sooner than later!
cheers!
 

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I think the home court is alternated between countries. i.e. we played there because Spain would've played here last time we played them in Davis Cup. This was what caused the stir last year when we played the US. It was our turn for home court but they elected to play it there to celebrate the anniversary.
 
Rats! I stayed up and watch the reverse singles match and I'm glad I did (not to see Australia lose, but to see 2 great tennis players perform at the highest standard.)

I guess we'll have to look forward to Australia playing Equador in Perth starting in Feb 2001.
 
Ant & Elt,

I don't think congratulations are in order. Maybe the stupidity award would be more applicable.

Nick,

Elt is right about the rule for home court matches. It really does work out to be a lottery. This year, Spain were fortunte enough to play all 4 matches at home. The home country also gets to choose the surface which is a significant advantage. The final would have been played in Melbourne if the US had managed to beat Spain in the semi-finals. Australia played both their second round tie against Germany and semi-final against Russia on grass in Adelaide and Brisbane.

Pessimistic,

I think describing the Davis Cup as a joke is a bit harsh. And I don't think using Yevgeny Kafelnikov in Brisbane is a good example. Throughout the whole tie he made derogatory towards the Australians, said how he would thrash the Aussies and teach Hewitt a lesson, and then refused to concede that Hewitt was the better player and blamed the loss on the "potato farm" of a court.

The Spanish crowd were disgraceful. No different to the way that the US crowd acted during the Ryder Cup event last year. Sadly, it is disappoining that much of the behaviour was a result of the immature acting of their captain.

But the concept of Davis Cup tennis is fantastic. There is nothing like watching professional players compete for nothing more than pride in their country. Perhaps if the umpires had the courage to invoke or at least threaten to use the rule that points could be awarded to the away team if crowd behaviour becomes much, things could have been different.

The match between Hewitt and Ferrero had everything and I think we were privileged to watch both of Hewitt's matches. However perhaps the person we need to wish good luck to is Juan Carlos Ferrero. Sounds like he has spending a lot of time with Jelena Dokic and we know how Damir feels about Jelena seeing anyone before the age of 20.
wink.gif


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Fortius Quo Fidelius
 
Sainter,

I agree with your comments about the Ferrero/Hewitt match. The standard of tennis was exceptional. I must admit to not being the biggest fan of Hewitt's but I certainly gained a lot of respect for him after this tie. The same goes for Ferrero but certainly not for Correjta or the Spanish captain.

I felt very disappointed for Rafter though. If there is one person who epitomises what Davis Cup is all about it is him. He demonstrated this by giving up opportunities to play big money tournaments in favour of Davis Cup in the past and there is no doubt that we wouldn't have made the finals in either of the last two years if not for his efforts. Our draw next year is much better and hopefully we can finally see his name on the trophy.
 
I also feel sorry for Hewitt as well as Rafter. Because of his loss to Juan Carlos Ferrero, he feels that it is his whole fault that Australia was not the winner of the Davis Cup 2000. He was a great fighter though, especially in that match on Friday night against Costa.
 
Sainter i'm with you the Spanish crowd were disgraceful. Look at Mondays Herald Sun and see the picture of that crowd esp. that lunatic giving the finger to our boys!! Woops he's an Aussie.

Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi

How dare they barrack for Spain....sheesh
 
Mugs,

I think one of the best things about the Davis Cup is the level of fanatical support that the home crowd receives.

However, the jeering and whistling between points was down right disgraceful.

Tennis (and Golf for that matter) are not like footy. You can't have supporters screaming during the points and between 1st and 2nd points.

Like I said earlier, the behaviour was similar to the Americans during the Ryder Cup last year.

There is a difference between unsportsmanlike behaviour and passionate support. I'm surprised you don't know the difference Mugs.

Elt,

I agree in regards to Rafter.

Although I must confess that I hope Phillipoussis makes himself available for the Davis Cup.

If that means Rafter having to play doubles with Stolle then so be it.

As long as we can get the Davis Cup back

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Fortius Quo Fidelius
 
Sainter,

Yeah the side does look better with Phillipousis in. As far as Rafter missing out I agree on clay and maybe hardcourt (although he has won two US Opens) but I think it would be different on grass. I think next year we will get a lot of home ties and if they keep selecting grass Rafter would be pretty stiff to miss out on the singles.
 

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Grendel,

A couple of points on the Davis Cup
1. The cup is a team game and Philipoussis must want to be part of the team. Philipoussis in making himself unavailable for the earlier ties, can hardly expect to come into the team for the Final.
2. He is a very good player and Australia need him, but he needs to make a commitment to play for Australia when asked and not 'spit the dummy' a la the tie in Mildura.
3. He played very well Pat Cash was coaching him. Gave him that extra bit of hardness.
4. Rafter, Hewitt, the Woodies and Stolle have always made a commitment to play for Australia whenever asked.

Hewitt played a great game and I sincerely hope he doesn't believe he alone let Australia down. It is a team sport!

I heard an explanation of why we played Spain on their home soil.
The respective teams alternate, that is why Newk said the Spaniards "better be prepared to play on the stuff cows eat, Grass".

Michele

PS I believe the challenger should play the current holder of the Cup on their home soil.
 
I agree fully, michele, philipoussis is a selfish wuss, we should be proud to have rafter and hewitt as our 2 top players, gutsy players with a pride for their country !

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Essendon - The greatest club with the greatest coach in the league ! Carlton- absolute hypocrites who accuse others of being cheats only for it to be found later that carlton are the "serial salary cap breachers" as quoted by our president, haha
 
Michelle, yes its as you say a TEAM game. Thats why Easty Roche should either have withdrawn from helping coach the Davis Cup side so that no percieved (regardless whether its there or not, ask Ron Evans) bias towards Rafter and against Mark in that US Open final.

Michelle, the other argument that he should be available for all ties i agree with you. However that hasnt been the case for many players going back in recent years from guys like Cash,The Super Macs and further back to greats like Rosewall. They have all missed early ties to come in at the quarters/semis stages. To single out phillipouiss here is wrong, when others have done the same thing, including Rafter.

The facts are that Newcombe and Roche both made cheap shots in the media towards Mark. His so called teamates decided that they didnt believe he had a legitamte injury and publicly derided him too. If that was happening to you would you feel like being part of that side? I know i wouldnt.

I really hope that the rifts can be healed and that the new post Newk/Roche team can be less mouthy and more encouraging towards ALL the players that represent OUR country.

Cheers
 
Grendel,

Are you really saying that if Philipoussis had approached Roche for say 'words of encouragement', that Roche would told Philipoussis he was unable to assist him because he was Rafter's coach.
Selling Newk and Roche a bit short, no, very short!

The US Open is played by individuals. Any Aussie OS would always be willing to help another.

Regarding Cash and Rafter - I can't remember either Pat making themselves unavailable excluding a real injury. Indeed, Cash was estatic when he played in the tie that gave Australia the Cup. Both Pats and 'the brat' McEnroe believe that playing for your country is an honour. McEnroe is scathing towards Sampras about this very issue.

I also believe Philipoussis's father did a lot of damage early on in Mark's career with poor advice. Changing (firing) coaches rapidly (and that includes Roche, the Melbourne guy x2 and Pat Cash). Philly snr. believed Australia needed Mark more than he needed Australia and played hardball to the detriment of his son's career and respect of peers.

Why does Hewitt command more respect than Philly? Hewitt is the better team player and plays with more heart than does Mark.

I think Mark, overall, is a better player and COULD be No.1, but he is too inconsistent. His game against Sampras was brilliant, but he wasn't heard of again for a while. The same could be said of his Davis Cup tie clincher.

Michele
 
Michelle you said "excluding a real injury." so your another saying that Phillipouisis knee injury wasnt real? That cost him a Wimbeldon title in 98 when he was wiping Sampras.

And the facts are, Roche should not have been part of Rafters entourage for that final if he was supposedly more dedicated to his country than an individual coaching assignment. He should have been neutral, thats all im saying. He should have either re-signed the Davis Cup posistion, or told Rafter his coaching duties were untenable while he remained with the Australian team.

Hell Sheedy showed how that sort of bias worked when guys like Kevin Walsh (HAHAHAHA) made the Vic sides of the mid eighties! and as a Ruckman too
rolleyes.gif
(This is a stir for the older bomber guys
tongue.gif
)

As to the withdrawal i can remember Rafter around 96/7 in the early rounds not being available for a tie against somebody (dont ask me who) for something to do with his needing time to recover from tournament play so he rested and partied at home in Bermuda. I think it was around the time we were booted out of the world group. Woodbridge has missed games for personal reasons too.

yet for some reason, Mark cops it in the neck everytime. Im starting to think its because of the name. Ive been in pubs where its been "bloody greek, let him go back home if he dont want to play for us". What home? Williamstown? No i dont think thats what they mean.

Mark won us a Davis Cup, lets not forget that. Neither forget how he said it was the proudest moment he has ever felt. Give him some credit,support and respect for that a change, instead of always making him out for him to be at fault.

[This message has been edited by Grendel (edited 13 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Grendel (edited 13 December 2000).]
 
Interesting points Grendel.

I have no doubt that his knee injury was real although I'm not convinced it cost him a Wimbledon title. He may have been up a set and a break against Sampras but let's not forget it was a quarter final and he is hardly known for his consistency. He certainly has a lot of potential and as I said previously he almost single-handedly won the final tie against France last year. I would love to see him back in the team and think those matches against France answered a lot of critics regarding his mental strength.

The Roche issue is where we differ though. I think it is unreasonable to expect him to give up coaching Pat, because they happen to play one another in the US Open final. What difference does it make to Mark where Roche sits? After all he can't be that great a coach in Mark's eyes, Mark and his Dad got rid of him. Mark had his own coach and entourage. Sure Roche is Davis Cup coach but they weren't playing Davis Cup. I mean it is no different in my mind to the fact that he was trying to beat Pat then but in Davis Cup they would be on the same team, possibly even on court together.

Are you saying that whoever is Davis Cup coach shouldn't be coach of any individual players? That whole episode sounded too much like sour grapes for my liking. Especially when Rafter admitted he had toned down his victory celebrations (the on court ones not the hankies on heads stuff afterwards
wink.gif
) because he knew Mark would be disappointed and didn't want to create any bad blood.

"The facts are that Newcombe and Roche both made cheap shots in the media towards Mark" Agreed but he has taken his fair share as well.

"His so called teamates decided that they didnt believe he had a legitamte injury and publicly derided him too" Yes they did. But even as recently as this latest tie they have said all they want is some consistency from Mark. There have been occasions when he has said he will play then doesn't, can't play and then turns up at the last minute.

I am just pointing out that there have been wrongs on both sides and Phillipoussis is not only on the receiving end. The whole thing needs to be resolved for the benefit of the team and I hope the new captain/coach can do it.
 

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The media wants one or two 'Heros' and one or two 'villains' in most sports. The rest they largely ignore. They probably think the public isn't smart enough to absoerb more than a few names.

How about that disgraceful episode a few years back when they tried to make a villain out of the delightful Martina Hingis ? She's obviously the a great person but one or two slip-ups and they try to run her down ad nauseum.

The reason ? A shortage of female tennis villains at the time. Now they have Helena Dokic Martina is OK again
 
Get ready as I am about to fire away at some people ! Firstly, Roche was Rafters coach so just cos he played another aussie in the us final should not mean that he steps aside for that match ! That is ridiculous if philipoussis expected that ! The us open had nothing to do with davis cup so roche was right to stay in the rafter camp. Philipoussis whinging after that was disgraceful, then you have the guy pull out of the colonial final for some soft reason angering fans who had paid for tickets, another example of his pathetic ways,then he goes and expects to get out of playing the minor davis cup ties against the weaker nations and then expects to come back for the biggies(semis and final) no way ! the guys that put in the hard work to get the aussies there should be in it over him ,his father needs a kick up the butt too! He is a lazy player and Hewitt is a brighter hope than philipoussis by a mile ! Now on to the Hingis issue, I cant stand her ! She is an unsporting little bi%*h !!!! She is fine when she is winning but when she is beaten she throwns her little tantrums, such as the french open final against graf where she threw hersefl and even served under arm, then many matches against davenport in finals like the aus open where she would belt her racket and carry on,not to mention her carry ons when she lost to dokic in wimbledon, i love watching matches when she loses !!!!!

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Essendon - The greatest club with the greatest coach in the league ! Carlton- absolute hypocrites who accuse others of being cheats only for it to be found later that carlton are the "serial salary cap breachers" as quoted by our president, haha
 
Grendel,

You seem a little defensive. Are you of Greek parentage? Perhaps 'people in pubs' tell Mark to 'go home' because he adopts an un Australian attitude. We are a sports mad nation. .

Being selected to represent YOUR country in any field is an honour and privilege. Would you turn down the chance? Philly's tantrum in the tie in Mildura was disgraceful. Will he or won't he play - that was very immature. He tried to gain some brownie points by flying in to Mildura, at the last minute - but he didn't tell anyone.

If injured and unable to play surely to be a team player, you would go along and give MORAL support to the team. I have no trouble with ANY player withdrawing because of a legimate injury, afterall they best know their bodies

Interestingly, you make no mention of Mark's father. He is better than Demir, but both fathers placed their respective children in difficult situations.

To the best of my knowledge, Roche helps Rafter out when asked. I don't believe Pat has a coach as such. Roche was entitled to sit with Rafter's entourage at the US Open - neither player is allowed any coaching.

I also heard that next year's draw for Aus, is not good. We play at least 2 ties away; one against Russia and I don't remember the other.

Michele
 
Grendel,

You seem a little defensive. Are you of Greek parentage? Perhaps 'people in pubs' tell Mark to 'go home' because he adopts an un Australian attitude. We are a sports mad nation. .

Being selected to represent YOUR country in any field is an honour and privilege. Would you turn down the chance? Philly's tantrum in the tie in Mildura was disgraceful. Will he or won't he play - that was very immature. He tried to gain some brownie points by flying in to Mildura, at the last minute - but he didn't tell anyone.

If injured and unable to play surely to be a team player, you would go along and give MORAL support to the team. I have no trouble with ANY player withdrawing because of a legimate injury, afterall they best know their bodies

Interestingly, you make no mention of Mark's father. He is better than Demir, but both fathers placed their respective children in difficult situations.

To the best of my knowledge, Roche helps Rafter out when asked. I don't believe Pat has a coach as such. Roche was entitled to sit with Rafter's entourage at the US Open - neither player is allowed any coaching.

I also heard that next year's draw for Aus, is not good. We play at least 2 ties away; one against Russia and I don't remember the other.

Michele
 
Grendel,

You seem a little defensive. Are you of Greek parentage? Perhaps 'people in pubs' tell Mark to 'go home' because he adopts an un Australian attitude. We are a sports mad nation. .

Being selected to represent YOUR country in any field is an honour and privilege. Would you turn down the chance? Philly's tantrum in the tie in Mildura was disgraceful. Will he or won't he play - that was very immature. He tried to gain some brownie points by flying in to Mildura, at the last minute - but he didn't tell anyone.

If injured and unable to play surely to be a team player, you would go along and give MORAL support to the team. I have no trouble with ANY player withdrawing because of a legimate injury, afterall they best know their bodies

Interestingly, you make no mention of Mark's father. He is better than Demir, but both fathers placed their respective children in difficult situations.

To the best of my knowledge, Roche helps Rafter out when asked. I don't believe Pat has a coach as such. Roche was entitled to sit with Rafter's entourage at the US Open - neither player is allowed any coaching.

I also heard that next year's draw for Aus, is not good. We play at least 2 ties away; one against Russia and I don't remember the other.

Michele
 

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