News & Events Death Valley and the missing Germans

[JuddsABlue]

Stumbled accross this read and found it pretty interesting

Its a bit of a slog but I couldnt stop so thought I would share

Its basically a trip report of somebody involved in the search for 4 missing Germans in Death Valley, an unforgiving area in the US that claims about a life a year (so I've heard, havent researched)

http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

Cliffs with no spoilers
-Family car is discovered in Death Valley by helicopter, most say its impossible for that type of car to get there
-Car belongs to German family, declared missing
-Search finds only 1 clue which leads to nothing
-Experienced hiker from the area stumbles across the case 10+ years later and decides to investigate himself, this is his story

 

[checkraiseulite]

Cliffs?

One of my best friends is going on a cycle tour through death valley and the rest of the south west in September. I don't see how this is a good idea (will still be crazy hot i'm guessing) but he's pretty stubborn.

 

[JuddsABlue]

Cliffs?

One of my best friends is going on a cycle tour through death valley and the rest of the south west in September. I don't see how this is a good idea (will still be crazy hot i'm guessing) but he's pretty stubborn.

Added cliffs without spoiler, only because I enjoyed reading it with the suspense. There are some hair raising moments throughout the story.

 

[Mooster7]

Really cool story, Judds. Thanks!

It took me through the afternoon at work all the way to quitting time. So not only was it an interesting and well-written story, I got paid to read it.

Peace,

 

[mattyc25]

Awesome, found it fascinating.

Thanks for posting, I love this stuff.

 

[Ghostwriter]

Drove through DV in 2010 and took a wrong turn and kept going along a rough road in a car, not 4wd, some anxious moments until I decided to turn around and backtrack, still haunts me a little. Reading this reminded me how simple mistakes can be fatal, although Aussies should be better prepared than Europeans in this environment.

 

[Starlin Castro]

Cool read, took forever but interesting nonetheless. Cheers for the share.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Can someone cliff with spoilers? Just make your text white or something.

 

[Ed_Gein]

reading through it now. very interesting.

although the quality of the photos bugs me. you'd think this investigation is from the 40's or 50's looking at the quality of them.

 

[JuddsABlue]

Can someone cliff with spoilers? Just make your text white or something.

spoiler cliffs

Spoiler

-After making contact with original investigators/people with knowledge about the case, all evidence is gathered and he heads out for a hike in Death Valley, doesnt find anything
-Notices that the area south of where the car was found wasnt searched, this was because it was precieved nobody would go South because there is nothing there. Other clues indicated they were heading in another direction
-Begins to try to find reasons the family wouldve headed south and why, and comes to the conclusion that the Germans wouldve been aware of an Army base south of where they were after breakdown, and being from Germany they wouldve expected patrols along the border of the army base. (However there wasnt even a fence, and no patrols, they wouldve just kept walking into nothing)
-Takes a friend out to search the area south, and after splitting up his friend quickly stumbles accross a wine bottle. Not far away he comes across a wallet with ID cards of one of the missing persons. He then finds bones.
-The search is reopened to the South area of Death Valley, DNA bones belong to the father/mother but the kids still arent found.
-Continues search for kids but doesnt find anything, becomes quite sick and cant continue to search but is told by investigaters that evidence of the kids were found but hes not that convinced.

The whole story is a great read and the cliffs really dont do it justice.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Spoiler

i think they said that because of the damage to the bones due to the weather they could only get a dna match to the male, with the others likely being the female. but no bones were found of the kids? have to wonder where they ended up? kids passed away earlier and were buried? who knows. certainly a shitty situation to be in for the germans.

overall. it's a pretty good read, but it takes a bit to get warmed up.

 

[Big Jono]

Cheers for the link JuddsaBlue, very interesting stuff!

I find it strange that the author assumes the kids outlasted the parents, I think maybe their route to the place where they found Conny might have taken them longer than assumed with maybe detours / backtracking etc and I see no reason to assume the kids made it there and then outlasted the parents while stuck there and then set off again.

Anyone else also find it strange that they reportedly left water in the car but took alcohol?? Thats a bad start to a survivial situation.

 

[BotsMaster]

Great read, it was very long and very intriguing.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Just amazes me someone would go out in that terrain in a Chrysler Voyager. Especially with kids.

I thought Germans were generally pretty switched on.

 

[skilts]

One of the great examples of the bloody-mindedness, intuition and determination of humans, in the face of despair. Well worth the extensive read. Mind you, he could have benefited from an acquaintance with a severe editor.

 

[skilts]

Just amazes me someone would go out in that terrain in a Chrysler Voyager. Especially with kids.

I thought Germans were generally pretty switched on.

A lot of foreign tourists have a similar, cavalier attitude about the dangers inherent in the Australian outback.

 

[Tex_21]

^^The numbers of Asian tourists (in particular, though by no means exclusively) that decide they're taking a day trip from Melbourne or Adelaide to Ayers Rock is quite surprising.

 

[Ed_Gein]

^^The numbers of Asian tourists (in particular, though by no means exclusively) that decide they're taking a day trip from Melbourne or Adelaide to Ayers Rock is quite surprising.

off topic i guess but;

my mum and a friend were staying in glasgow and my mum's friend wanted to go to ireland for a day trip. despite my mum telling her that it wouldn't be worth the couple of hours on a ferry each way, she insisted on going just so she could say "she's been to ireland before" to all her other friends back in australia. needless to say this wasn't the only ridiculous suggestion she came up with and they're no longer friends. travelling can be a friendship killer.

 

[Tex_21]

off topic i guess but;

my mum and a friend were staying in glasgow and my mum's friend wanted to go to ireland for a day trip. despite my mum telling her that it wouldn't be worth the couple of hours on a ferry each way, she insisted on going just so she could say "she's been to ireland before" to all her other friends back in australia. needless to say this wasn't the only ridiculous suggestion she came up with and they're no longer friends. travelling can be a friendship killer.

I read a quick review of a recent paper that suggested the real payoff from a lot of travelling is actually the memory or claim of having been somewhere - actually experiencing the travel yields a lower level of utility than bragging about it. Maybe your old girl's mate wasn't so unusual?

Just found the link http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/class/psy394u/Bower/05 Con Distort Mems/Vacation memory.pdf

 

[Ed_Gein]

I read a quick review of a recent paper that suggested the real payoff from a lot of travelling is actually the memory or claim of having been somewhere - actually experiencing the travel yields a lower level of utility than bragging about it. Maybe your old girl's mate wasn't so unusual?

Just found the link http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/class/psy394u/Bower/05 Con Distort Mems/Vacation memory.pdf

might have a read through of that report a little later. i would be interested to read a general gauge on how common just being somewhere for a short time for bragging rights actually is.

i guess it's each to their own. but for me personally, i don't understand how setting foot in a different country for a few hours at most constitutes travelling in the pure sense if you're not going to visit a national monument, try the food and overall experience the culture in some way.

 

[Plugger35]

might have a read through of that report a little later. i would be interested to read a general gauge on how common just being somewhere for a short time for bragging rights actually is.

i guess it's each to their own. but for me personally, i don't understand how setting foot in a different country for a few hours at most constitutes travelling in the pure sense if you're not going to visit a national monument, try the food and overall experience the culture in some way.

Only country I have been to for less than a day was Mexico. When I was living in San Diego we went on a day trip to Tijuana but going from San Diego to Tijuana is like going from Perth to Fremantle or Melbourne to Geelong so it's not like it's a big trip to get there. One day in Tijuana is more than enough anyway, wouldn't have wanted to stay there any longer than that.

Every other country I have travelled to I spent at least a few days there.

 

[Mooster7]

I find it strange that the author assumes the kids outlasted the parents, I think maybe their route to the place where they found Conny might have taken them longer than assumed with maybe detours / backtracking etc and I see no reason to assume the kids made it there and then outlasted the parents while stuck there and then set off again.

Nah, the parents died first or else the parents and children were separated - which I highly doubt. I wouldn't be able to conclusively say whether an adult or child would best be suited for the environmental conditions, but my five bucks would be on the kids. An infant would croak straight off, but older children are more resilient and far more so than the adults. Children suffer the same effects from heat and dehydration, but children are amazing compensators in the way their autonomic nervous system regulates their blood pressure. Try having one in the back of your ambulance. With adults, you can easily tell when they start to circle the drain. Children on the other hand will be talking to you one moment and dead the next, the little bastards. Their pressure compensates all the way to the reaper.

Blood pressure is the first problem with dehydration. The lack of fluid causes the pressure to drop off until you become dizzy, can no longer stand, pass out and, in this case, eventually die. The children would be more resisitant to these changes and I think would be able to remain conscious and afoot longer. It's a guess and there are variables, but I think the guess is supported by other information. Also, the adults were drinking alcohol which would exacerbate the dehydration problem

Another very strong reason why I think the adults conked first was the finding of that mining claim cairn with the stick in it. When I got to that part of the story, I thought, "Yeah that's where the kids would be." But it turned out to be a mining claim, nothing more. I can't believe for one moment that if the kids had died first the parents would have just left them there in the open plain and walked off. They would have carried them or buried them. If they buried them, there would have been some sort of marker not unlike the mine cairn.

As for them becoming separated, gven the general protectiveness for children, especially in a life/death situation, I don't believe the children became split off from the adults while all were upright. It seems one of the adults (the male) went off alone for a brief period, but I would be certain the children stayed with the woman until she gave up the ghost. It was only after that did the kids try to make off on their own. Nothing else makes sense.

It was never clear from the story whether they recovered both children together, but I would believe the older girl would have looked after the boy. If either one of them went down first, the behavior of the other would be unpredictable, but I can imagine them both gradually succumbing together to the heat and dehydration and agreeing to "take a rest for a while" never to get back up.

All of this is specualtion of course, but based upon common sense, I think. And afterall, it was common sense speculation on the part of the writer of the story that enabled him to find the remains of these people.

Anyone else also find it strange that they reportedly left water in the car but took alcohol?? Thats a bad start to a survivial situation.

Yes. Sad. It's an indicator that they didn't understand how truly ****ed they were and failed to realize this was a survival situation until it was too late. As for me, if I thought I could get out of a bad jam after only a few hours of walking, I would probably grab the booze and leave the water too.

Errrr....but perhaps not after reading this story.......

Peace,

 

[.Shotties.]

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Read it. **** it was a long read.

Now I'm spooked and worried I'll have an Inception-stye 'limbo dream' where I'm stuck in Death Valley for decades

This case could make a good TV series. Might need a more interesting ending/plot twist than "We found some of their bones" though. With other made up stuff.

 

[Big Jono]

Nah, the parents died first or else the parents and children were separated - which I highly doubt. I wouldn't be able to conclusively say whether an adult or child would best be suited for the environmental conditions, but my five bucks would be on the kids. An infant would croak straight off, but older children are more resilient and far more so than the adults. Children suffer the same effects from heat and dehydration, but children are amazing compensators in the way their autonomic nervous system regulates their blood pressure. Try having one in the back of your ambulance. With adults, you can easily tell when they start to circle the drain. Children on the other hand will be talking to you one moment and dead the next, the little bastards. Their pressure compensates all the way to the reaper.

Blood pressure is the first problem with dehydration. The lack of fluid causes the pressure to drop off until you become dizzy, can no longer stand, pass out and, in this case, eventually die. The children would be more resisitant to these changes and I think would be able to remain conscious and afoot longer. It's a guess and there are variables, but I think the guess is supported by other information. Also, the adults were drinking alcohol which would exacerbate the dehydration problem

Another very strong reason why I think the adults conked first was the finding of that mining claim cairn with the stick in it. When I got to that part of the story, I thought, "Yeah that's where the kids would be." But it turned out to be a mining claim, nothing more. I can't believe for one moment that if the kids had died first the parents would have just left them there in the open plain and walked off. They would have carried them or buried them. If they buried them, there would have been some sort of marker not unlike the mine cairn.

As for them becoming separated, gven the general protectiveness for children, especially in a life/death situation, I don't believe the children became split off from the adults while all were upright. It seems one of the adults (the male) went off alone for a brief period, but I would be certain the children stayed with the woman until she gave up the ghost. It was only after that did the kids try to make off on their own. Nothing else makes sense.

It was never clear from the story whether they recovered both children together, but I would believe the older girl would have looked after the boy. If either one of them went down first, the behavior of the other would be unpredictable, but I can imagine them both gradually succumbing together to the heat and dehydration and agreeing to "take a rest for a while" never to get back up.

All of this is specualtion of course, but based upon common sense, I think. And afterall, it was common sense speculation on the part of the writer of the story that enabled him to find the remains of these people.




Yes. Sad. It's an indicator that they didn't understand how truly ****ed they were and failed to realize this was a survival situation until it was too late. As for me, if I thought I could get out of a bad jam after only a few hours of walking, I would probably grab the booze and leave the water too.

Errrr....but perhaps not after reading this story.......

Peace,

Very interesting, thanks. You obviously know a lot more about this than me, I take it you are a paramedic? Common sense for me would be the weaker children dropping first, interesting to see its not always the case.