Delistings 2008

[The Crows Truth]

I'm not talking about some unofficial rule; I'm talking about the reality that in the next few years we are going to lose 3 all time greats of the club (plus another 2 fairly handy players) and their exit needs to be staggered to minimise the impact on the club's on field performance. 2 of Edwards/Goodwin/McLeod going at once would be a massive loss of quality, leadership and experience for the club; 3 would be disastrous. Everything the club has done in recent years and said on the matter this year indicates that more tough decisions will be made, but some people here are unwilling to read the writing on the wall and accept that one of their favourite players won't be around next year.

Macca is contracted for next year so he's a certainty and has said he'd like to keep going as long as he can but will have to re-assess things next year. Both Edwards and Goodwin on form deserve another year if their bodies are up to it, but the club may see this as too much of a risk that all three potentially could be finished at the end of next year. Burton has got another contract for next year but will have to have a lot go his way to be around in 2010, so that leaves Bassett who almost certainly will have to retire voluntarily or be pushed.

i agree that birdman being signed means bassett is looking very shaky. would mean bassett and biglands gone this year and then 2 (or 3) again next year (probably goodwin and edwards) leaving only bird and macca left for one last golden year in 2010.

re the 'big 3', im not so sure this is still the case. all 3 have progressively had less impact in the last couple of years, notably mc Leod and goody this year. that reducing impact will continue again next year. a number of our wins this year have been when these 3 guys havent been in the best 3-4 players. thankfully, this is a very different scenario to 3-4 years ago when the 'big 5' seemingly had a mortgage on the best players each and every week.

I am comfortable with say edwards and goodwin going end of next year and macca the following

 

[Mismatched]

Starts in 2008 I believe. I could be wrong though, it has been known to happen.

If it doesn't start until 2009 then Moss & Martin would have to be much more heavily scrutinised.

My understanding of the rule was that it started this year too, am 95% sure that this is the case, although am happy to be proven wrong.

 

[maccas_no1]

Not sure if a reponse like this was warranted? Obviously you disagree, fair enough, that's all that needed to be said. Must be that time of the month, or stop sniffing the plane fuel. As for 'keyboard' hero? Pot. Kettle. Black.

Let me know when you learn a thing or two about footy pal

 

[Mismatched]

I'm not talking about some unofficial rule; I'm talking about the reality that in the next few years we are going to lose 3 all time greats of the club (plus another 2 fairly handy players) and their exit needs to be staggered to minimise the impact on the club's on field performance. 2 of Edwards/Goodwin/McLeod going at once would be a massive loss of quality, leadership and experience for the club; 3 would be disastrous. Everything the club has done in recent years and said on the matter this year indicates that more tough decisions will be made, but some people here are unwilling to read the writing on the wall and accept that one of their favourite players won't be around next year.

Macca is contracted for next year so he's a certainty and has said he'd like to keep going as long as he can but will have to re-assess things next year. Both Edwards and Goodwin on form deserve another year if their bodies are up to it, but the club may see this as too much of a risk that all three potentially could be finished at the end of next year. Burton has got another contract for next year but will have to have a lot go his way to be around in 2010, so that leaves Bassett who almost certainly will have to retire voluntarily or be pushed.

Losing these 3 is going to hurt any way you look at it, however I don't agree that letting go of one at a time will do that much to soften the blow. I would much rather we kept them round, but just reduced the work load on each. That way the youngsters can learn to take over, whilst still having these blokes as a fall back, as well as giving them time to pass on their leadership and experience to these youngsters. Who better than to have our youngsters play alongside such players.

If they were struggling to hold their weight and hence becoming a liability, then yes, give them a shove, but they're not, granted each has the off game every now and then, but as long as their bodies are up to it, I'd much rather them around, preparing the youngsters to take over.

 

[Truck Rutten]

Losing these 3 is going to hurt any way you look at it, however I don't agree that letting go of one at a time will do that much to soften the blow. I would much rather we kept them round, but just reduced the work load on each. That way the youngsters can learn to take over, whilst still having these blokes as a fall back, as well as giving them time to pass on their leadership and experience to these youngsters. Who better than to have our youngsters play alongside such players.

If they were struggling to hold their weight and hence becoming a liability, then yes, give them a shove, but they're not, granted each has the off game every now and then, but as long as their bodies are up to it, I'd much rather them around, preparing the youngsters to take over.

You're kidding aren't you? Have you not noticed the difference when Macca alone has been out of the team? They may not be playing the pivotal midfield roles they used to but all 3 are still very strong contributors and based on form deserve to keep going if their bodies and minds are up to it. So did Jason Torney though.

 

[Elite Crow]

Given our need to delist and the fact we are considering delisting Edwards and Bassett makes the decision to keep Burton even more staggering. Edwards and Bassett could contribute next year whereas Burton wont. As for talk of delisting Hentschell, how could we do that without even seeing how he will recover after another preseason. He must be given an opportunity in an AFL game.

 

[Mong]

I agree Bassett may be in danger. His form recently has been good but much of the efirst half of the season he wasn't playing that well. His performances alone won't be the reason he is cut though. He is good enough to get another year but the need to manage some high profile retirements this offseason and the next two means he is in danger. He's been a great player for us over the years but now with Stevens playing good football, Massie able to play the Bassett role and the emergence of Brad Moran, Bassett is not as indespensible as he once was.

I'm not saying he's gone, I'm not confident either way. I'm assuming he's out of contract too. If he's not we won't release him.

 

[StuPendus]

Given our need to delist and the fact we are considering delisting Edwards and Bassett makes the decision to keep Burton even more staggering. Edwards and Bassett could contribute next year whereas Burton wont. As for talk of delisting Hentschell, how could we do that without even seeing how he will recover after another preseason. He must be given an opportunity in an AFL game.

The press releases from the club insists that he is looking at coming back around July next year and playing around 6 to 8 games.

 

[Elite Crow]

The press releases from the club insists that he is looking at coming back around July next year and playing around 6 to 8 games.

But he will have to play at least a month in the SANFL gaining fitness, form and confidence in his knee. His retention is a gamble whereas Edwards and Bassett arent. Dont get me wrong I agree one if not both need to go, but its hypocritical to keep Burton.

 

[Mong]

Given our need to delist and the fact we are considering delisting Edwards and Bassett makes the decision to keep Burton even more staggering. Edwards and Bassett could contribute next year whereas Burton wont.

As good as Edwards and Bassett are and have been they are easier to replace than Burton. Burton is far more important to our structure than either of those two. That's not intended to talk down their contributions. They are very good players.

Plus, I personally don't think there is any chance Edwards won'tbe kept another year.

As for talk of delisting Hentschell, how could we do that without even seeing how he will recover after another preseason. He must be given an opportunity in an AFL game.

He has recovered and returned to training from his major injury so there is some form to judge him on. The Crows have to make a judgement call on what they think his future output will be and while its sad what's happened to Trent the Crows will make a fair call on it. They've kept him for two years without him playing a game so they've shown their interest in giving him time to come back but there comes a time when you've just got to cut your losses. If they can't forsee him getting back to play good football they need to make the tough call.

 

[King Elvis]

What are the chances that we'd delist Hentschel, give him the full year in the SANFL, and then look at re-drafting him the following year?

Would give us the pick in this strong draft, and we could use a pick in the next, compromised draft on him?

Obviously puts him on the market, and would depend on his form and ability next year, but would it be worth considering?

 

[StuPendus]

But he will have to play at least a month in the SANFL gaining fitness, form and confidence in his knee. His retention is a gamble whereas Edwards and Bassett arent. Dont get me wrong I agree one if not both need to go, but its hypocritical to keep Burton.

I don't agree about Edwards. He deserves to be kept on the list to reach his 300 next year. Also his experience is second to none with more young ones coming on next year.

 

[Mong]

What are the chances that we'd delist Hentschel, give him the full year in the SANFL, and then look at re-drafting him the following year?

Doubt it. Once he's gone that would be it. He'd be getting on in age by then too. Realistically if we release him his AFL days are over, with us or anyone else.

 

[Vader]

What are the chances that we'd delist Hentschel, give him the full year in the SANFL, and then look at re-drafting him the following year?

Would give us the pick in this strong draft, and we could use a pick in the next, compromised draft on him?

Obviously puts him on the market, and would depend on his form and ability next year, but would it be worth considering?

He turns 26 on Christmas Day. After 12 months in the SANFL he'd be 27 before returning to the AFL. Do you honestly expect the Crows to be drafting a 26yo player, who will be 27 before he plays his next game?

No, the Crows will make an informed decision, based upon the medical evidence provided by his surgeon, their own assessment on how much mobility they think he has lost and their assessment on whether he will be able to overcome his run of soft tissue injuries. That decision is likely to be final, whichever way it goes.

 

[Mismatched]

You're kidding aren't you? Have you not noticed the difference when Macca alone has been out of the team? They may not be playing the pivotal midfield roles they used to but all 3 are still very strong contributors and based on form deserve to keep going if their bodies and minds are up to it. So did Jason Torney though.

So you agree with me completly? That is the exact reason why I think they should be kept, hopefully they'll be needed less and less, but on the odd occassion that a Vince, Porplyzia, Thompson etc. has a bad day, they will be there to make up for it.

So as I take it, your argument is that because we need them, we should get rid of them? Makes absolute sense.

As for the Torney argument, you cannot, relate it to Edwards, Mcleod, Goodwin, Basset and Burton. Torney was not a tier 1 player, and the club explicitly said that unless players were tier one, they would not be getting another contract (that is in our current transition period) beyond their 30th birthdays. The above 5 are considered tier 1, and for the most part playing good football, even Burton who's had his next year practically rubbed out is getting another year. Basset would be the only one in trouble IMO because his form has been questionable at best this year, although his current form is getting better.

Make no mistake, Neil Craig will be gunning for a premiership next year, hell, he's pushing for one this year, he's not going to cut his tier one players who are still consistently playing good football and are not strugging with injuries (although the second is questionable with the Burton decision). If he believes these 5 30+ tier one players can contribute next year they will be there.

Unless of course there's a new policy about our tier 1 players I havn't heard about?

 

[Truck Rutten]

So you agree with me completly? That is the exact reason why I think they should be kept, hopefully they'll be needed less and less, but on the odd occassion that a Vince, Porplyzia, Thompson etc. has a bad day, they will be there to make up for it.

So as I take it, your argument is that because we need them, we should get rid of them? Makes absolute sense.

As for the Torney argument, you cannot, relate it to Edwards, Mcleod, Goodwin, Basset and Burton. Torney was not a tier 1 player, and the club explicitly said that unless players were tier one, they would not be getting another contract (that is in our current transition period) beyond their 30th birthdays. The above 5 are considered tier 1, and for the most part playing good football, even Burton who's had his next year practically rubbed out is getting another year. Basset would be the only one in trouble IMO because his form has been questionable at best this year, although his current form is getting better.

Make no mistake, Neil Craig will be gunning for a premiership next year, hell, he's pushing for one this year, he's not going to cut his tier one players who are still consistently playing good football and are not strugging with injuries (although the second is questionable with the Burton decision). If he believes these 5 30+ tier one players can contribute next year they will be there.

Unless of course there's a new policy about our tier 1 players I havn't heard about?

No I don't agree with you at all because to be honest I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about. I never said that Edwards, Goodwin or McLeod don't deserve to play on next year. In fact I said the exact opposite.

What some people don't seem to understand is that it's not just form that will determine if any of the 30+ guys will be joining Biglands in retirement. Goody, Macca, Edwards and Bassett will all be 32 by the start of next season and the club has publicly stated that they want to stagger the departure of our old guard. Have a look through the other club's lists and you'll find that there are not that many guys out there over 32. If we don't move at least one of them on this year then we run the unacceptable risk that all 4 could be finished next year. That's not to mention Burton who needs a lot to go right to get a contract past next year. This is why I'm confident that Bassett won't be with us next year. He's not a star like the other 3 and although his spoils and 1%ers will be missed, I'm sure we can cover his absence without too much trouble.

I think you're placing too much significance on some unofficial policy the club supposedly has. If Bassett is considered tier 1 at the moment yet Torney wasn't based on last year, then that just illustrates the folly of employing some hard and fast rule. Who is the arbiter of which players are tier 1 and which are tier 2? I mean has Bassett ever seriously been a tier 1 player? Not in my estimation that's for sure.

 

[macca23]

No I don't agree with you at all because to be honest I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about. I never said that Edwards, Goodwin or McLeod don't deserve to play on next year. In fact I said the exact opposite.

What some people don't seem to understand is that it's not just form that will determine if any of the 30+ guys will be joining Biglands in retirement. Goody, Macca, Edwards and Bassett will all be 32 by the start of next season and the club has publicly stated that they want to stagger the departure of our old guard. Have a look through the other club's lists and you'll find that there are not that many guys out there over 32. If we don't move at least one of them on this year then we run the unacceptable risk that all 4 could be finished next year. That's not to mention Burton who needs a lot to go right to get a contract past next year. This is why I'm confident that Bassett won't be with us next year. He's not a star like the other 3 and although his spoils and 1%ers will be missed, I'm sure we can cover his absence without too much trouble.

I think you're placing too much significance on some unofficial policy the club supposedly has. If Bassett is considered tier 1 at the moment yet Torney wasn't based on last year, then that just illustrates the folly of employing some hard and fast rule. Who is the arbiter of which players are tier 1 and which are tier 2? I mean has Bassett ever seriously been a tier 1 player? Not in my estimation that's for sure.

I've been following your arguments and I agree with them.

In short:

2008 Biglands and Bassett to retire

2009 Goodwin and Edwards to retire

2010 Burton and McLeod to retire

 

[Stiffy_18]

See this attitude shits me. Edwards has given us 13 years of excellent service. Always reliable game in game out. He deserves the chance to play 300 games next year. Sure he has slowed down a bit, but he is playing outstanding footy still.

How the **** do you just say get rid of him

Ben Hart and Jason Torney Board!

 

[Flashhh]

Whats with people wanting to get rid of Tony Armstrong. The young man's been there one year and from all reports hasnt been too bad in the SANFL. Went to my school last year and is a lightly built indigenous boy. In the mould of McLeod (isn't and never will be as good) but is that sort of player. But geez, give the guy a chance.

Also, happy to take Brent Rielly off your hands and for that bloke who reckons Kenny McGregor would be a good key backman for Port... your dreamin. McGregor can't crack a game in a forward line that consists of Kurt Tippett and Nick Gill... when Burton and Porplyzia are out. Carslile, Chaplin, Thurstans and even pettigrew are streets ahead of him.

Also, can we have Scott Thompson back?

 

[crowsarethebest]

Ben Hart and Jason Torney Board!

Torney was a solid player. Edwards is a champ. Hart was just past it, injuries got the better of him. Edwards I reckon would maybe be in the top 5 for our B&F this year- he's still got a bit to offer. Next year will be his last year I think. Goody on the other hand is struggling a bit, I reckon he's probably playing injured. Macca is down on form but his 300th showed he's still got it in him. It's probably a matter of motivation for Macca- he still looks pretty fit. Might not have the absolute speed of his prime but still moves like a Rolls Royce.

I don't think out of Edwards, Goody and Macca it will be Edwards who goes this year. It'll probably be Goody if one is to go out of them. However I reckon Goody could still go on for another year. Bass is the one who I reckon should retire. While he does an admirable job, theres youngsters that could take his place as 3rd tall. Stevens could do it as well (his best position IMO). Bass just takes too long with his decision making these days and looks like he'll get caught HTB half the time. Very very frightening in those situations. The indications are that its his final year though.

Jericho should be gone. Picking Dangerfield ahead of him... pretty much means- Goodbye. He's had enough time to prove himself and he hasn't. Campbell, while he's done a solid job he might be in danger. Hasn't set the world alight and was probably an insurance policy to the younger guys in case they don't develop as quickly as hoped. Might be kept one more year and might be stiff to get cut but thats AFL and this year expecially we need to capitalize on our draft picks (as the GC concessions and the strength/depth of the draft). Gallman... heard encouraging signs in the pre-season but injury plagued him. Might be gone. It's tough on him as he looked like he was on fire in the pre-season and was going to debut this year.

Biglands is gone already... I reckon maybe one or 2 more will go- whether Edwards/Goody go as well remains to be seen. We'll want at least 5+ maybe more in the ND this year and including the elevation of Petrenko (most likely) we'd need to delist/retire 6 or more. It's going to be interesting. Not many standout delist candidates (only Jericho).

 

[crowsarethebest]

Whats with people wanting to get rid of Tony Armstrong. The young man's been there one year and from all reports hasnt been too bad in the SANFL. Went to my school last year and is a lightly built indigenous boy. In the mould of McLeod (isn't and never will be as good) but is that sort of player. But geez, give the guy a chance.

Also, happy to take Brent Rielly off your hands and for that bloke who reckons Kenny McGregor would be a good key backman for Port... your dreamin. McGregor can't crack a game in a forward line that consists of Kurt Tippett and Nick Gill... when Burton and Porplyzia are out. Carslile, Chaplin, Thurstans and even pettigrew are streets ahead of him.

Also, can we have Scott Thompson back?

Yeah, everyone's being harsh on Armstrong for some reason. Cook has more chance of getting delisted (Cook hasn't even played really-injured). His type will take a while to get adjusted to the physical nature against men.

 

[macca23]

Whats with people wanting to get rid of Tony Armstrong. The young man's been there one year and from all reports hasnt been too bad in the SANFL. Went to my school last year and is a lightly built indigenous boy. In the mould of McLeod (isn't and never will be as good) but is that sort of player. But geez, give the guy a chance.

Also, happy to take Brent Rielly off your hands and for that bloke who reckons Kenny McGregor would be a good key backman for Port... your dreamin. McGregor can't crack a game in a forward line that consists of Kurt Tippett and Nick Gill... when Burton and Porplyzia are out. Carslile, Chaplin, Thurstans and even pettigrew are streets ahead of him.

Also, can we have Scott Thompson back?

We're happy to trade with you again, but not actually for Thommo.

Remember how you stole Meesen off of us last year??

Here's your chance to dud us again.

Very very reluctantly, we will trade Jericho to you this year.

But he wants to go, you want him - who are we to refuse your second-rounder?

*sighs sadly*

 

[Alex99]

We're happy to trade with you again, but not actually for Thommo.

Remember how you stole Meesen off of us last year??

Here's your chance to dud us again.

Very very reluctantly, we will trade Jericho to you this year.

But he wants to go, you want him - who are we to refuse your second-rounder?

*sighs sadly*

And you have the audacity to call yourself a crows fan, we are getting ripped with that deal everyone know he is worth Colin Silvia minimum

 

[Mismatched]

No I don't agree with you at all because to be honest I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about. I never said that Edwards, Goodwin or McLeod don't deserve to play on next year. In fact I said the exact opposite.

What some people don't seem to understand is that it's not just form that will determine if any of the 30+ guys will be joining Biglands in retirement. Goody, Macca, Edwards and Bassett will all be 32 by the start of next season and the club has publicly stated that they want to stagger the departure of our old guard. Have a look through the other club's lists and you'll find that there are not that many guys out there over 32. If we don't move at least one of them on this year then we run the unacceptable risk that all 4 could be finished next year. That's not to mention Burton who needs a lot to go right to get a contract past next year. This is why I'm confident that Bassett won't be with us next year. He's not a star like the other 3 and although his spoils and 1%ers will be missed, I'm sure we can cover his absence without too much trouble.

I think you're placing too much significance on some unofficial policy the club supposedly has. If Bassett is considered tier 1 at the moment yet Torney wasn't based on last year, then that just illustrates the folly of employing some hard and fast rule. Who is the arbiter of which players are tier 1 and which are tier 2? I mean has Bassett ever seriously been a tier 1 player? Not in my estimation that's for sure.

Okay, I think we're just misunderstanding each other here, I agree pretty much with everything you've just said there.

As for Basset's tier 1 position, I'm pretty sure thats what the club has stated, however I agree that he probably will be moved on this year, I just wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't.

My big thing is I don't think that a Goodwin, Edwards or Mcleod, should be gotten rid of at the end of this year because the've hit 32 and are likely to retire at the end of next year. I think their contributions are still too valuable and what they have to offer in terms of leadership, experience and their ability to perform and hold up the team when all others around them cannot. For a few years now I've seen next year as the year these three go, any more is a bonus, thats my view and I'm not going to change it.

I'd be inclined to agree with what Macca23 outlined above, however my only worry would be Maccas knees and whether or not they could stand up till 2010 and Burton is similar, I hope he can make it back to his former greatness, but with his body I'm not counting on it.

 

[Mismatched]

Whats with people wanting to get rid of Tony Armstrong. The young man's been there one year and from all reports hasnt been too bad in the SANFL. Went to my school last year and is a lightly built indigenous boy. In the mould of McLeod (isn't and never will be as good) but is that sort of player. But geez, give the guy a chance.

Also, happy to take Brent Rielly off your hands and for that bloke who reckons Kenny McGregor would be a good key backman for Port... your dreamin. McGregor can't crack a game in a forward line that consists of Kurt Tippett and Nick Gill... when Burton and Porplyzia are out. Carslile, Chaplin, Thurstans and even pettigrew are streets ahead of him.

Also, can we have Scott Thompson back?

Armstrong won't be delisted don't worry about that, its just that we delist Alan Obst a couple of years back after the one year and just because Armstrong hasn't made it into the SANFL league side yet this year, people want him cut.

As for your comments re Ken Mcgregor, you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Being able to play as a forward and being able to play as a defender are 2 different things. Playing as a forward is quite often much harder as you need to read the play really well. Kenny can't do this and quite simply is not a forward. Maybe in days gone past he could have been a successful forward, but now he is not mobile enough to make up for his lack of natural offensive ability.

As a defender, you can be lead to the ball however and this is where Kenny excels, he is extremely disciplined, won't provide great run off half back, but he is a rock. He will take defensive grab after defensive grab and then spoil if required. If Nathan Bock wasn't in our side, Kenny would be our CHB and we would be lucky to have him there, unfortunately for Ken, Bock can pretty much do what Kenny can do and more. Ken's problem is he has failed to reinvent himself as a forward. For a team in desperate need of a CHB you could do worse than recruit Ken Mcgregor, a couple of years ago infact, Jono Brown described him as his toughest opponent.