Health Depression

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Having had experience with depression personally, (both myself and my father) and having overcome it years ago by shear fluke...I now run courses for a wide range of people including those suffering from depression.

The first step to overcoming depression is realising your personal responsibility. You choose to have depression, and you can choose to take steps to overcome it.

Once you realise this, then you can take the next steps.
The next steps are realising that Depression gives you something. It gives you connection from people who care about you or from those that also have depression, it gives you significance from others...you need to find the things that depression gives you and replace these with positive stimuli. For example, rather than hug someone when they are depressed, hug them when they are happy or make an effort to be happy. This creates a more effective neurological strategy that aids in overcoming depression.

Every person that claims to have had depression before coming to this course, no longer has depression or anxiety and no longer takes meds. They love life.

But like I said, the first step starts with you. You need to realise that you are in control, and only then can someone help you learn to overcome depression yourself.

There is alot more involved, however I don't want to write a book here and now...

Whoa! Steady on Tiger. There are a small portion of people that choose to wallow in their melancholia, however for the majority that is not the case. Try telling a middle-aged man who is so severely depressed that he can no longer get out of bed, eat or sleep and experience persistent thoughts of suicide, that he chose to be depressed.

In these cases, people require biological treatment to even reach a point where they can actually be capable of engaging in other forms of treatment (i.e. psychotherapy).

What you're saying about choosing to address depression, I would agree with, if that form of depression is mild to moderate.

 

[No_choice]

Whoa! Steady on Tiger. There are a small portion of people that choose to wallow in their melancholia, however for the majority that is not the case. Try telling a middle-aged man who is so severely depressed that he can no longer get out of bed, eat or sleep and experience persistent thoughts of suicide, that he chose to be depressed.

In these cases, people require biological treatment to even reach a point where they can actually be capable of engaging in other forms of treatment (i.e. psychotherapy).

What you're saying about choosing to address depression, I would agree with, if that form of depression is mild to moderate.

What are the latest statistics? Something like almost 50% of the population are on anti-depressants these days in the US. I'm sure Oz's stats are close to something like that.

What I'm suggesting and what I actually DO is help people overcome depression by understanding and reversing the conditioning that our current society creates. That Depression for most people is something that needs to be managed with taking a pill. Who benefits from this? The Pharma companies, and the medical industry.

I appreciate your position and belief about Depression is different from mine. I believe that most people carry the identity of having depression for a number of various reasons. I dont suggest they do this consciously, however at some point in their lives, people around them, their environment has contributed to reinforcing their depression.

Each person I have worked with (I don't with with suicidal people for legal reasons - I agree they need to seek assistance elsewhere) who carried the identity of having depression and who has resigned themselves to a life of taking meds, is now an empowered individual, no longer on meds, and who now work in the community to help others discover their own 'cure'.

I know what I suggest is radical and challenges many peoples beliefs. The thing is, it's supposed to. The level of thinking that created the problem is not the level of thinking you need to solve the problem.

In summary, I want people with long term depression to realise that there is a cure...and that it's simply a matter of finding where that is within themselves...and that there are people out there that can help you discover that.

 

[drd23]

Ahh. Gotta love the quacks that place the blame of disease on the "client" and then it then becomes the "client's" fault when the treatment doesnt work

 

[nicky]

No choice, i must admit you threw me off a little as well with "people choose to be depressed" - I was communicating with someone (via text) who is very depressed last night and their response to me asking why they weren't answering their phone was "i'm too scared to talk because no-one understands"

This person is extremely depressed and if they've made that choice to be depressed it is a very unconcious one so I wonder what tools you use with someone like that?

Does your method work only if people have faith in your premise that depression is a choice?

edit: quite ironic that you've chosen the username 'no choice'

 

[nicky]

Ahh. Gotta love the quacks that place the blame of disease on the "client" and then it then becomes the "client's" fault when the treatment doesnt work

pretty sure his heart is in the right place.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

What are the latest statistics? Something like almost 50% of the population are on anti-depressants these days in the US. I'm sure Oz's stats are close to something like that.

What I'm suggesting and what I actually DO is help people overcome depression by understanding and reversing the conditioning that our current society creates. That Depression for most people is something that needs to be managed with taking a pill. Who benefits from this? The Pharma companies, and the medical industry.

I appreciate your position and belief about Depression is different from mine. I believe that most people carry the identity of having depression for a number of various reasons. I dont suggest they do this consciously, however at some point in their lives, people around them, their environment has contributed to reinforcing their depression.

Each person I have worked with (I don't with with suicidal people for legal reasons - I agree they need to seek assistance elsewhere) who carried the identity of having depression and who has resigned themselves to a life of taking meds, is now an empowered individual, no longer on meds, and who now work in the community to help others discover their own 'cure'.

I know what I suggest is radical and challenges many peoples beliefs. The thing is, it's supposed to. The level of thinking that created the problem is not the level of thinking you need to solve the problem.

In summary, I want people with long term depression to realise that there is a cure...and that it's simply a matter of finding where that is within themselves...and that there are people out there that can help you discover that.

Believe me NC, I'm no shill for Big Pharma and definitely agree that anti-d's are overprescribed by GPs. Much easier for them to write out a prescription than to formulate a mental health plan and refer to psychology.

However, you cannot disregard the importance of biological treatment for those with Major Depressive Disorder, particularly when there is neurovegetative symptoms involved (i.e. the physical manifestation of depression such as reduced sleep, apetite, concentration, energy and memory).

Too often medication is used as the first intervention, where counselling/psychotherapy would be more appropriate. Anyways, it sounds as if your doin' some good work, and if your clients are achieving good outcomes, then a big up-ya to you

 

[No_choice]

No choice, i must admit you threw me off a little as well with "people choose to be depressed" - I was communicating with someone (via text) who is very depressed last night and their response to me asking why they weren't answering their phone was "i'm too scared to talk because no-one understands"

This person is extremely depressed and if they've made that choice to be depressed it is a very unconcious one so I wonder what tools you use with someone like that?

Does your method work only if people have faith in your premise that depression is a choice?

edit: quite ironic that you've chosen the username 'no choice'

Nicky, in answer to your questions, what I do with each person is unique for that person. There are a number of layers to everyone's problems, and it's about understanding what those layers are and resolving each layer, one at a time.
I generalise in my communication because a) I don't have the time nor is this the audience to go into detail about how and what I do and b) because to give this audience insight I need to be brief and somewhat direct.

My 'method' definitely only works if people have faith in the process. Imagine trying to help someone find their own control and power, if they don't open themselves up to the possibility.

In order to learn something new (ie learn how to overcome your own depression) you first need to be prepared to recieve the learning.

I don't work with everyone. I can't fix people. I can help them fix themselves. I recognise that my courses are not for everyone, but everyone that I work with gets their result and becomes inspired to get out into the public and make others aware.

Like I said earlier, the first step is for the client to accept that at some point in their life, whether it be through conditioning in their environment or something else, that an event occurred and they decided to respond in a less than positive way to that event. It's then recognising that they could have chosen to respond in other ways, to see other options that they could choose.

 

[No_choice]

It reads like very traditional psychobabble to me. Gunning for Oprah's vacant throne?

MDC, you are right. It's very traditional. It's not new. The methods I use have been around since the late 70's. It seems radical to some, however. It simply depends on your model of the world and your previous insights/experience.

Whatever each of us call it, if it works, then I say there is merit in it.

I could really challenge your beliefs and blow your minds, by saying that actually most therapies, everything from chiropractors, to accupuncture, to psychotherapy, to hypnotherapy, to reiki, etc is all a metaphoric construct, a convincer that helps the client unconsciously find their own solution, whether they know it or not...but I won't because most people aren't ready to hear that!

See the phenomenon known as the placebo effect.

 

[No_choice]

Fairly certain that to challenge my beliefs you'd need to first have some idea of what they are. In any case, I'm ready to hear anything you wish to post - I'm a big boy, and could use a good mind-blowing.

The placebo effect has nothing to do with "unconsciously finding your own solution". It is, however, interesting that you mention placebos, given that the sort of self-help psychobabble you seem to espouse does indeed merely please the patient, and does not actually benefit or "cure" them.

You are right, I have incorrectly presupposed that it would challenge your beliefs without having any understanding of what they currently are.

I mention placebos as a link to the power of the mind. That people when there is faith and desire involved can overcome any limitation.

Again you are correct, my clients are definitely pleased that they no longer have depression and no longer take meds.

 

[WeetBixKid]

Too many vices make things far, far worse for me. If I feel down, I'll drink. Use drugs. Masturbate to pr0n for hours & hours. Anything that gives a nice big rush of chemicals to my brain. & it makes you feel like shit. When I'm on a binge, nothing except the moments I'm intoxicated bring me joy. Being social otherwise is an effort, doing chores are an effort, doing work gives me anxiety. But, once I manage my drinking, stop the drugs, stop the pr0n & sleep properly the difference is amazing. Just my experience.

 

[shibz_1989]

I got down to 10mg and have not had the time to go back to the doctors. I missed a dose last Friday, then missed another on Saturday and decided maybe to just not take it anymore - I've missed two, may as well just not bother. I feel awful now - maybe I should just stay on them for life?

Ended up going to ED shortly after this. I work as a carer and was literally lying on the floor for an hour just crying. My client kept asking what was wrong...just said I had hay fever

ED were really good, they told me to go see me GP (I still cannot for the life of me understand why I didn't go there in the first place). He has put me back up to 5mg, which has helped a lot. It's weird - when the doctor first started weaning me off he dropped me from 40 to 20, I felt worse going from 10 to 0.

As for "choosing to have depression". Come walk in my shoes for a day - I would do anything to not feel that way.

As much as doctors may over prescribe medication - they will prescribe it first to help the person feel a little less "foggy" and more like themselves. This will then (hopefully) encourage them to organise a plan for counselling, lifestyle change etc.

 

[Kram]

Seen the old man have it his whole life. It's quite strange as it can often last years and then virtually overnight he will just snap out of it and go back to normal seemingly for no reason at all. It's often been that long that you almost forget what he used be like, it's quite funny. I could see him tommorow and give him 200 grand cash and he still wouldn't be right atm.

I swear though it's ridiculously over diagnosed and the pharmacutical companies are somehow in on it. The docs have tried giving me the medications in a conveniently lying around 'sample' pack a couple of times and although I'm sure it works for some people but it made me feel like my brain was on fire. No thanks. Dad's been put on them many times but always ends up throwing them away because he reckons they just make him tired.

At least for me personally better of just getting some short term stuff like Valium or Xanax which helps you get some rest at night, things usually improve and feel better in a couple of weeks. I think my problem is more anxiety though and any sadness is more because of a present situation rather than a genuine depressive mental illness like the old man.

 

[andon]

I think most of us suffer at different times in our lives, its part of the normal cycle of life.

If I do sink a little and need to resurface I find walking, riding my bike, and general exercise brings a feeling of well being.

Eat the best you can too, lots of water, fresh fruit, stop smoking or and drinking...it all helps to feel good about yourself.

Start taking care of your self, make sure you are showering every day, get your teeth cleaned, wear nice clothes, go out and socialise more often.

Dont sleep in, get up and go out for a walk, end the fast food, start cooking for yourself.

Getting involved in activities that helps others, maybe do something you havnt done before or for a long time, like go someplace for a weekend, rent a boat, go fishing.

Understand WHY in your own heart what causes your depression...be honest...then change it.

You are a valuable human being, people love you and care for you, so love yourself and go enjoy what the world has to offer.

Richmond will make the 8 next year...(if they stop selling home games)

I wish you well,

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

One of my pet hates is when people front court and attribute their appalling behaviour to depression.

I'm sorry, but I never realised committing criminal offences was a symptom of depression. Take these antisocial *********:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/trio-appeal-jail-terms-for-doctor-attack-20110602-1fi4n.html

A Melbourne trio involved in an attack on prominent doctor Mukesh Haikerwal which left him brain damaged and half an hour from death are appealing their jail terms.

Azzopardi, who delivered the most serious blow to the doctor with a baseball bat, was jailed for 18-and-a-half years with a minimum of 13-and-a-half years.

The court heard Azzopardi suffered long-standing depression and was in protective custody due to his problems with anxiety.

Oh diddums. Hope he gets to share a cell with an overweight musclehead with a penchant for young men of mediterranean appearance.

Dr Haikerwal was one of 34 people assaulted by Azzopardi and his crew

 

[Dan Moody]

No disrespect to this thread intended, Azzopardi will experience real depression for the next 18 years.

 

[Carlton_Blues]

You are right, I have incorrectly presupposed that it would challenge your beliefs without having any understanding of what they currently are.

I mention placebos as a link to the power of the mind. That people when there is faith and desire involved can overcome any limitation.

Again you are correct, my clients are definitely pleased that they no longer have depression and no longer take meds.

What is your qualification?

 

[Silent Alarm]

The internet is a pretty powerful tool for illness. Never, ever doubt that.

I've met many people on forums with depression. Whether it be a Radiohead, a Bloc Party, an Arsenal, or a footy forum, you can always use a common interest to build ground. It's an empowering tool. You still feel alone and things still feel relatively pointless, but sometimes you find someone who understands.

 

[RW]

There was an interesting article in the Sydney Morning Herald "Good Weekend" magazine last weekend about the pursuit of happiness and the positive psychology movement, and the difference between our happy or positive mood and our sad or negative mood.

Our happy or positive mood is our relaxed state, we can relax because the brain perceives no immediate threat.

Our negative mood is basically our wary state, which is our signal to the brain to pay more attention to what is happening around us. People in a negative or pessimistic state are more skeptical, see the world more clearly and are better able to assess danger.

But negative mood is different from depression, which is a more intense, enduring or prolonged period of being in a negative state.

It's normal to experience a negative mood from time to time. Of course, we don't want to be in a depressed state, because we wouldn't be able to function normally.

This is another interesting description about depression that I found and definitely helps explain why I sometimes have "down" periods from time to time:

Depression is a natural state; a coping mechanism that humans (and other species) have evolved to deal with times of scarce resources. A bear in hibernation is in a depressed state. All bodily functions go into standby mode. We become listless, we don't think, feel or do much. This helps us to preserve energy, and is a good response to the end of winter when there isn't much food around, for example. We subconsciously choose this state as a way of protecting ourselves, of surviving.

But we live in a world where food is available all year round and so is shelter, water, heat. Therefore the reason we entered into a depressed state, went into standby, is something other than basic survival. But it was the best response you had at that time, probably to the end of your relationship, but also to a job you didn't like, and probably more things too I am guessing.

Just like the hibernating bear, it takes time to wake up, get everything running on optimal settings.

I found the above description useful in taking away some of the stigma associated with depression, because it is a natural state, but it's not one that we want to endure over a prolonged period, so we effectively need to "train" our minds to re-enter the relaxed state in order to function normally.

 

[smasha]

Felt shit today.
Started crying for no reason.
Suicidal thoughts.

Went to the pub and sculled 3 stubbies.

Feel a litle bit better now.

I'mgonna get ****ing blind at the footy this week guranhteeed.

When you don't give a **** about yourself,you just go hard.

 

[fishguts]

Got officially diagnosed with bi-polar on Tuesday.

Was an odd experience, funnily enough, I didn't feel alone for the first time in quite a few weeks. I think I'm attributing this to a friend who I've recently got close with who is having a similar situation to me, and I think I'm finding comfort in that.

I also found it quite a quite surreal experience in the sense that I am a chronic rescuer, that I seem to find happiness from cheering other people up. Yet, deep down, I'm probably the one who needs help. I think to give you all an insight, I might explain my life as it stands now, that, and sleeping really hasn't been happening for me lately...

* I'm an 18 year old male

* Currently living at home by myself, as my mother is living with my grandparents due to suffering severe depression and anxiety herself.

* Father lives in northern New South Wales, we have a good relationship, but obviously it has its difficulties

* Since I was 4, I have had an eating disorder, in the sense that I can only eat bread, cereals and chips for the most part. This is all psychological, believed to be due to having adult sized tonsils as a kid which made me throw up all the food I use to eat, and still today makes me throw up if I try

* Completing Year 12 which is quite strenuous, however, I'm also a school captain and find the duties involved with that the workload when coupled with Year 12 is quite extreme.

* Have a part time job at a respected property valuers firm, though new management has taken over and me and my fellow part time worker are likely to be moved on.

* Plan to go to Melbourne Uni next year, however I need a 78 and my work ethic has been really poor this year. SHould still comfortably get in the 70's, however 78 is going to be tough if I don't lift my work ethic.

* Currently single, and have been for a few years. Love is huge trigger in my manic depressive stages, however, I think it's more the concept of not having someone there that brings me down rather than any specific individual.

I know I may seem to be harping on, but it's nice to get it off your chest and put words to my feelings. A way to communicate with others who know my feelings, and can feel empathy.

I've had a rather flat few weeks now, not the worst state I've been in before, however not ideal. I've also contracted possibly glandular fever a couple of weeks a go which I am still getting over.

I find that I have my highs during the 9pm-2am time frame, with my lows usually occurring from the 9am-9pm range.

I don't expect replies, it's just nice to be able to put writing to it, and I think I may continue to post my thoughts and feelings purely to get it off my chest, and to help others realise they are not alone.

I know from reading Smasha's posts, that I see some things that strike me as similar, and which in turn helps me get through bad stages.

 

[Dan Moody]

Mate, I wish I'd had at least half of the maturity you have when I was 18.
For the crap you've been through, you've done an outstanding job of staying level-headed.
Despite what you've been through, you've still got more going for you than most 18 year olds.
****ing hell, reading through this thread makes me realise how lucky I've been.
You should be applauded for getting on with everything even in the face of adversity.

 

[Showbag]

Such an interesting thread to read. I'm not one that ever suffered depression, however my wife suffers anxiety and has a form of depression linked to post traumatic disorder and post-natal. The extremes can be hard to deal with and an over-reliance on my input is certainly trying, seems like she has lost total faith in her own ability. You try and give her back the confidence. It is such a fine balance in terms of medication, she has pushed hard and got off the anti-depressants, which is great, but you think how many people are over-prescribed? I found her impossible to deal with on a mixture of zoloft and karma. I remember one night we ordered take-away (delivery) and she spent 2 hours mixing the black bean beef and rice before she would let us eat it.

 

[BarneyBent]

Coming down off the high of a remarkable personal achievement (just pulled off something I didn't think I could ever do going into it), suddenly find myself alone after spending almost every moment of the last month with my GF, I've been on St John's Wort but got out of the habit of taking them for a while, starting to feel the effects of going off them (at least now I know they've been working for me, I was sceptical before), I just witnessed the Swans lose to Adelaide in the most painfully, unbearably frustrating way (yes, I'm serious, that has been the trigger), and now I'm drinking beer alone in bed and surfing BigFooty listlessly on my lappy.

Shittest I've felt in a while. Worst part is, no negative thoughts. There's nothing for me to grab hold of and say, "Stop thinking shit like that, you're being ridiculous", like so many people with depression/anxiety have. When I've got that, I can get out of it with some instant, self-administered CBT. Nope, this is purely affective. I know that my life is good, I'm capable, I'm loved, the Swans are a better than average side with high future prospects (and even if they're not, ****, it's just a game), I just have this knot of painful anxiety/depression sitting directly behind my sternum that is sapping the life out of me, and I can't do a ****ing thing about it.

Hopefully it's gone tomorrow morning.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Coming down off the high of a remarkable personal achievement (just pulled off something I didn't think I could ever do going into it), suddenly find myself alone after spending almost every moment of the last month with my GF, I've been on St John's Wort but got out of the habit of taking them for a while, starting to feel the effects of going off them (at least now I know they've been working for me, I was sceptical before), I just witnessed the Swans lose to Adelaide in the most painfully, unbearably frustrating way (yes, I'm serious, that has been the trigger), and now I'm drinking beer alone in bed and surfing BigFooty listlessly on my lappy.

Shittest I've felt in a while. Worst part is, no negative thoughts. There's nothing for me to grab hold of and say, "Stop thinking shit like that, you're being ridiculous", like so many people with depression/anxiety have. When I've got that, I can get out of it with some instant, self-administered CBT. Nope, this is purely affective. I know that my life is good, I'm capable, I'm loved, the Swans are a better than average side with high future prospects (and even if they're not, ****, it's just a game), I just have this knot of painful anxiety/depression sitting directly behind my sternum that is sapping the life out of me, and I can't do a ****ing thing about it.

Hopefully it's gone tomorrow morning.

You say you 'know' your life is good, etc.

But are you happy with your life? Are you where you wanted to be at this stage?

Little things can trigger it I guess, my uncle's sister in law has extreme anxiety and sometimes refuses to come over for family dinners over the littlest things .. for example when my sister coughed she panicked, got up and left.

Have you seen a psychologist about it (if it's a regular occurrence)?

I know a lot of people are skeptical about the work of psychologists, but realistically it helps people to simply talk about their issues...

 

[deledio7]

You say you 'know' your life is good, etc.

But are you happy with your life? Are you where you wanted to be at this stage?

Little things can trigger it I guess, my uncle's sister in law has extreme anxiety and sometimes refuses to come over for family dinners over the littlest things .. for example when my sister coughed she panicked, got up and left.

Have you seen a psychologist about it (if it's a regular occurrence)?

I know a lot of people are skeptical about the work of psychologists, but realistically it helps people to simply talk about their issues...[/quote]
Not everyone. I worked closely with a psychologist for a couple of months and felt I come out worse. I was more cynical and paranoid after every appointment. It works for many people, but not all.