Health Depression

[Damon_3388]

It's been said elsewhere in the thread, but never underestimate the power of good, consistent sleep. I've had three straight nights of 12 hours sleep, going to bed and waking at the same time, and I feel like a completely different person. It doesn't change or fix any problems you may have, but it's lifts your mood immensely and gives you so much more of a positive outlook on the day ahead. It might seem obvious to someone who isn't suffering from depression, but for those that are, sometimes you lose that much control of yourself and your emotions that even doing basic things like going to bed at a regular time take massive effort, so every bit of progress counts

 

[La Dispute]

Just coming out of depression after 6 months of feeling pretty terrible most of the time. Struggling to sleep for extended periods, isolating myself, spending hours writing songs, stories or whatever else just so it didn't feel like I wasn't doing anything.

I've found going out, playing sport and spending as much time as I can with mates to be the best cures for it. Although that's probably quite obvious.

Good luck to everyone else, again - it's a prick of a thing.

 

[BarneyBent]

You say you 'know' your life is good, etc.

But are you happy with your life? Are you where you wanted to be at this stage?

Little things can trigger it I guess, my uncle's sister in law has extreme anxiety and sometimes refuses to come over for family dinners over the littlest things .. for example when my sister coughed she panicked, got up and left.

Have you seen a psychologist about it (if it's a regular occurrence)?

I know a lot of people are skeptical about the work of psychologists, but realistically it helps people to simply talk about their issues...

I'm happy with my life. I'm getting good marks at uni, I've had a rubbish social life this year but through no fault of my own; it's been a conscious, necessary, and more importantly temporary, sacrifice I've had to make in order to stay in uni through depression/exhaustion. A bit of a chicken/egg thing, but I'm planning on using these holidays to reset myself a bit.

I've got a girlfriend I love and who loves me, I don't have any negative cognitive distortions that are typical of depression/anxiety (read up a bit about Beck if you want to know more about what I'm talking about). By student standards, I'm well-off financially, I'm about to go travelling overseas (after which I won't be well-off financially ), my future prospects are good, I have a few close friends that I can rely on, I have healthy-enough interests, I really have nothing to feel depressed about.

As for seeing a psychologist, I'm actually a psychology student and am planning to be a clinician myself, so I'm well aware of what's available to me. I've seen a psychiatrist, though I could have gone to a psychologist since I don't need meds (beyond St Johns Wort which appears to have helped). He had just seen a few people I knew and they'd been helped.

The problem is that there's very little to talk about. It's not something that manifests itself in bad thoughts. If it was, I or a therapist would be able to get a handle on it and start to make some changes. It's basically just flattened anxiety. I've got a hot, hard ball of anxiety in my chest, but rather than stimulating anxiety or panic, it drains my energy, flattens my mood. I'm aware of it, I'm consciously very happy, but that doesn't make it go away. I've always been very self-aware, so it's almost like I've got the condition of depression, but my own self-awareness prevents it from influencing my thoughts, so it's just a generalised, separate experience. Excercise would probably help, but the idea of exerting myself while under such a drain is actually sickening.

I need to figure out a way to keep this under wraps. The St Johns Wort appears to have helped, so I'm thinking keeping those up and getting into a persistent excercise routine in the holidays when I'm not feeling it, so that it can be maintained when I go off and can help me through it, might be the best way to go. I'll see if I can do it.

Not everyone. I worked closely with a psychologist for a couple of months and felt I come out worse. I was more cynical and paranoid after every appointment. It works for many people, but not all.

Yeah, doesn't always help unfortunately. It's probably a symptom of the increased emphasis of scientific approaches in the field of psychology. For research, that's all good and well, and should be very strongly emphasised, but for clinical practice, it's not that simple; the science of psychology is very young and addresses a very complex system (the brain). For that reason, scientific theories in the field of psychology are, quite frankly, poor. They do not do a good job of explaining or predicting psychological phenomena. They're better than the layman's understanding, they are getting better with every paper published, and it's not reflective of the value of the field of psychology as a whole (which is a connection a lot of people seem to make), but these theories, while as good a basis for further research as possible, are nowhere near as solid as theories in other fields, health-related or otherwise.

The upshot of this? Well, there is a strong emphasis in clinical psych to take a very reigmented, scientific approach to treating clients. Was your psychologist very impersonal? Stiff? Disconnected? Didn't respond to statements you made when you expected them to? These are all pretty common problems. Psychologists (and I'm assuming psychiatrists) often avoid interacting with their client on a natural, dynamic, interpersonal level, trying to keep interactions as tightly controlled and restrained as possible so that therapy can be applied as strictly as possible.

While this rigidly scientific approach is understandable, and takes its cues from other health approaches, the science quite simply isn't good enough to rely so heavily on. Something like 25% of people don't respond to cognitive-behavioural therapy (CBT), which is the most reliable psychological treatment for depression and anxiety. 75% response is the best we can do (let's not even go into how many experience lasting, as opposed to transient, improvements). Is this acceptable? While I'm actually a big fan of the core tenets of CBT, its implementation too often ignores interpersonal facets of treatment. There is an art to psychotherapy which is too often ignored in favour of strictly adhering to the prevailing, incomplete, scientific theory.

The fact is that the science of psychology is poor and limited. When using this science to help other people, there are gigantic holes which must be filled with the "art" of psychology, if you will. Not that this is easy, mind you, but a realisation amongst the broader clinical community would go some way. I fear that clinical psychology will shy away from abandoning such rigid approaches because of self-consciousness. Accusations of "pseudo-science" are often, and unfairly, levelled at the field of psychology, so utilising anything less than scientific in clinical practice could well be interpreted as an admission of guilt.

Oddly enough, in America the opposite problem exists. While research, as far as I know, is very much scientifically-oriented, clinical practice is very much focused on psychodynamic approaches, which are decidedly non-scientific, or even, dare I say it, pseudo-scientific (I hate Freud). Just think of the stereotypical "shrink" in American TV shows, comedies or otherwise. These approaches work even less often than CBT-focused therapies in Australia and other parts of the world, and studies have indicated they're no better than no treatment at all. It would be good to see a bit of a fusion of the two, I guess.

Well, this has turned into quite the rant, hasn't it?

 

[mdc]

Oddly enough, in America the opposite problem exists. While research, as far as I know, is very much scientifically-oriented, clinical practice is very much focused on psychodynamic approaches, which are decidedly non-scientific, or even, dare I say it, pseudo-scientific (I hate Freud). Just think of the stereotypical "shrink" in American TV shows, comedies or otherwise. These approaches work even less often than CBT-focused therapies in Australia and other parts of the world, and studies have indicated they're no better than no treatment at all. It would be good to see a bit of a fusion of the two, I guess.

I really don't want to derail this thread with debate, but this is incredibly narrow-minded. The irony is, Freud was a strong proponent of a "rigid scientific" approach helped by the "art of psychology".

That aside, I can relate pretty well to the sort of thing you described in your first few paragraphs. The unfortunate thing about the label of "depression" is that it connotes some negative thoughts or moods that preceded and caused it. In fact, it is often the other way around - one is happy, but then due to suffering depression becomes frustrated and angered by being unable to find the root of the thing and fix it. It is like a tiny pebble in our shoe, except we are unable to stop and inspect our mind the way we would a shoe. So we just go on, telling ourselves that the pebble will wriggle free if we just take enough steps and will it to go away. Sometimes it does, of course. Other times the pebble just digs in deeper and begins to feel like a dagger. All the while we say to ourselves "it's not a real pebble, stop being stupid and walk properly".

 

[BarneyBent]

I really don't want to derail this thread with debate, but this is incredibly narrow-minded. The irony is, Freud was a strong proponent of a "rigid scientific" approach helped by the "art of psychology".

I don't disagree. The problem is that Freudian theory, and psychodynamic theory in general, is absolute bollocks. Freud revolutionised psychotherapy, no doubt, and his approaches give interpersonal comfort which can be invaluable. I would argue that implementing modern techniques in a "Freudian", psychoanalytical manner, would be the best way forward.

That aside, I can relate pretty well to the sort of thing you described in your first few paragraphs. The unfortunate thing about the label of "depression" is that it connotes some negative thoughts or moods that preceded and caused it. In fact, it is often the other way around - one is happy, but then due to suffering depression becomes frustrated and angered by being unable to find the root of the thing and fix it. It is like a tiny pebble in our shoe, except we are unable to stop and inspect our mind the way we would a shoe. So we just go on, telling ourselves that the pebble will wriggle free if we just take enough steps and will it to go away. Sometimes it does, of course. Other times the pebble just digs in deeper and begins to feel like a dagger. All the while we say to ourselves "it's not a real pebble, stop being stupid and walk properly".

Yeah, but a lot of the time, people have concrete, cognitive tendencies which contribute to their depression or anxiety. Negative thoughts lead to a negative mood, which leads to negative thoughts, which leads to negative moods, etc. It's a cycle which needs to be broken. The easiest way of breaking that cycle is identifying and changing the negative thoughts, as they are much more accessible and malleable than the more generalised mood state. That's pretty much the basis of cognitive therapies.

I don't really have this cycle going on (I'm sure I'm not the only one). As you describe, it's like a pebble which sometimes goes away, sometimes doesn't. There's no reason for it to be there, it just is.

 

[nicky]

Hey bloodstains, do you know much about mindfulness therapy, which has come out after cbt and if so what are your thoughts?

 

[BarneyBent]

Hey bloodstains, do you know much about mindfulness therapy, which has come out after cbt and if so what are your thoughts?

Yeah, I'm aware of it, and I've done a bit. When I said CBT earlier, I was referring to cognitive-behavioural therapies in general, including mindfulness-based cognitive therapy. It's very cool. I'm not spiritual by any means, and I don't buy into the religious/spiritual implications of the Buddhist practice of mindfulness which mindfulness-based therapies draw from, but Buddhism really did stumble upon a neat mental technique that's very useful.

A lot of people scoff at it, and again, it probably doesn't do anything to sway the views of psychology as a pseudoscience, but it has been studied, and, perhaps in spite of all expectations, it works. I'm actually really interested in its applications for treating chronic pain.

 

[nicky]

Yeah, I'm aware of it, and I've done a bit. When I said CBT earlier, I was referring to cognitive-behavioural therapies in general, including mindfulness-based cognitive therapy. It's very cool. I'm not spiritual by any means, and I don't buy into the religious/spiritual implications of the Buddhist practice of mindfulness which mindfulness-based therapies draw from, but Buddhism really did stumble upon a neat mental technique that's very useful.

A lot of people scoff at it, and again, it probably doesn't do anything to sway the views of psychology as a pseudoscience, but it has been studied, and, perhaps in spite of all expectations, it works. I'm actually really interested in its applications for treating chronic pain.

I'm not into religion either including Buddhism (tibetan prayer flags are one of my pet hates).

Check out Jon kabat zinn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn - i mentioned him earlier in this thread, i have one of his cds "mindfulness for beginners" which is almost a play on words because he claims that you can only ever be a beginner at mindfulness. Anyway he runs a stress reduction clinic in america and I find him extremely down to earth. His philosophy is essentially the same as Eckart Tolle's etc except he's more approachable if that makes sense. Definitely worth checking out.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I'm happy with my life. I'm getting good marks at uni, I've had a rubbish social life this year but through no fault of my own; it's been a conscious, necessary, and more importantly temporary, sacrifice I've had to make in order to stay in uni through depression/exhaustion. A bit of a chicken/egg thing, but I'm planning on using these holidays to reset myself a bit.

I've got a girlfriend I love and who loves me, I don't have any negative cognitive distortions that are typical of depression/anxiety (read up a bit about Beck if you want to know more about what I'm talking about). By student standards, I'm well-off financially, I'm about to go travelling overseas (after which I won't be well-off financially ), my future prospects are good, I have a few close friends that I can rely on, I have healthy-enough interests, I really have nothing to feel depressed about.

As for seeing a psychologist, I'm actually a psychology student and am planning to be a clinician myself, so I'm well aware of what's available to me. I've seen a psychiatrist, though I could have gone to a psychologist since I don't need meds (beyond St Johns Wort which appears to have helped). He had just seen a few people I knew and they'd been helped.

The problem is that there's very little to talk about. It's not something that manifests itself in bad thoughts. If it was, I or a therapist would be able to get a handle on it and start to make some changes. It's basically just flattened anxiety. I've got a hot, hard ball of anxiety in my chest, but rather than stimulating anxiety or panic, it drains my energy, flattens my mood. I'm aware of it, I'm consciously very happy, but that doesn't make it go away. I've always been very self-aware, so it's almost like I've got the condition of depression, but my own self-awareness prevents it from influencing my thoughts, so it's just a generalised, separate experience. Excercise would probably help, but the idea of exerting myself while under such a drain is actually sickening.

I need to figure out a way to keep this under wraps. The St Johns Wort appears to have helped, so I'm thinking keeping those up and getting into a persistent excercise routine in the holidays when I'm not feeling it, so that it can be maintained when I go off and can help me through it, might be the best way to go. I'll see if I can do it.

Maybe it is just your energy levels?

Or perhaps putting too great an emphasis on your uni work and too little on recreation (well that's what it sounds like to me) have left you stressed and anxious.

I know people who did the IB course at my school who broke down during the middle of a study session in an exam period, or with a teacher... because they had hyped up to the extreme the importance of their results and their 'unlikelihood of success'.

I would try to get into a good routine these holidays, three big meals a day, regular exercise, regular socializing, etc.

If nothing else works you just need to analyze your life;

What currently causes you the most stress or anxiety?

Can it be managed or modified?

 

[BarneyBent]

I'm not into religion either including Buddhism (tibetan prayer flags are one of my pet hates).

Check out Jon kabat zinn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn - i mentioned him earlier in this thread, i have one of his cds "mindfulness for beginners" which is almost a play on words because he claims that you can only ever be a beginner at mindfulness. Anyway he runs a stress reduction clinic in america and I find him extremely down to earth. His philosophy is essentially the same as Eckart Tolle's etc except he's more approachable if that makes sense. Definitely worth checking out.

I'll give that a look. I actually almost went on a 10-day Vipassana course in the Blue Mountains earlier this year. Got there and everything, but was late, missed the first session, and hadn't brought any bedding. I was kind of in a dazed state of mind generally (almost hard a car accident driving there), and just said **** it, I don't want to do it like this, I'll come back and do it properly next time I have the opportunity. Which I will, just need to find the time. I've got plenty of occasional days off, but never more than a week, and then I'm going overseas for 7 months.

Maybe it is just your energy levels?

Or perhaps putting too great an emphasis on your uni work and too little on recreation (well that's what it sounds like to me) have left you stressed and anxious.

I know people who did the IB course at my school who broke down during the middle of a study session in an exam period, or with a teacher... because they had hyped up to the extreme the importance of their results and their 'unlikelihood of success'.

I would try to get into a good routine these holidays, three big meals a day, regular exercise, regular socializing, etc.

If nothing else works you just need to analyze your life;

What currently causes you the most stress or anxiety?

Can it be managed or modified?

It's nothing current in my life. In all honesty I've felt like this since I was about 9 or 10. Had a panic attack one night at a restaurant, didn't really know why, I was also suffering from OCD symptoms, etc. Never had a panic attack since, but that anxiety knot still comes and goes. Had it all through school. Apparently I was anxious even at the age of 3 or 4. Which is weird, because I've also always been incredibly laid-back. Don't know how I manage to be both, but I do.

That said, I'm definitely going to try eating, sleeping and excercising well, keeping social, etc. There are times it's up, times it's down, there seems to be no rhyme nor reason for either (and I'm fairly perceptive about this sort of thing), but at worst, healthy eating, sleeping, excercising and socialising will be good for my health. If it helps rid me of my anxiety, then all the better.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

It's nothing current in my life. In all honesty I've felt like this since I was about 9 or 10. Had a panic attack one night at a restaurant, didn't really know why, I was also suffering from OCD symptoms, etc. Never had a panic attack since, but that anxiety knot still comes and goes. Had it all through school. Apparently I was anxious even at the age of 3 or 4. Which is weird, because I've also always been incredibly laid-back. Don't know how I manage to be both, but I do.

That said, I'm definitely going to try eating, sleeping and excercising well, keeping social, etc. There are times it's up, times it's down, there seems to be no rhyme nor reason for either (and I'm fairly perceptive about this sort of thing), but at worst, healthy eating, sleeping, excercising and socialising will be good for my health. If it helps rid me of my anxiety, then all the better.

Fair enough mate, I hope it works for you.

 

[nicky]

I'll give that a look. I actually almost went on a 10-day Vipassana course in the Blue Mountains earlier this year. Got there and everything, but was late, missed the first session, and hadn't brought any bedding. I was kind of in a dazed state of mind generally (almost hard a car accident driving there), and just said **** it, I don't want to do it like this, I'll come back and do it properly next time I have the opportunity. Which I will, just need to find the time. I've got plenty of occasional days off, but never more than a week, and then I'm going overseas for 7 months.
.

I've not been compelled to do vipassna tbh frank with you. I have 2 good friends who have done it and got alot out of it though so it is definitely good for some.

I find that intense and discerning approach to meditation contradictory to my interpretation of meditation and mindfulness. I like simple. Having said that I don't discount others who like it.

Jon kabat zinn is very down to earth and his approach most definitely resonates with me AND you don't have to take a vow of silence for 10 days. The cd of his is a double and cd1 he talks about what mindfulness is and cd2 he coaches you through a mindfulness meditation (which i've only done twice as i do basic breathing meditation). I've listened to cd1 about 40 times, it's terrific.

 

[fishguts]

Had a good night tonight, but now after literally 30 seconds, I feel as miserable as I have been in months.

Even thinking to myself to go down stairs and polish the bottle of vodka down there and have a few painkillers.

Sad thing is, I have no idea why I want to, I know the stupidity of it, yet I'm still contemplating it.

It is just ****ed.

 

[Dan Moody]

Had a good night tonight, but now after literally 30 seconds, I feel as miserable as I have been in months.

Even thinking to myself to go down stairs and polish the bottle of vodka down there and have a few painkillers.

Sad thing is, I have no idea why I want to, I know the stupidity of it, yet I'm still contemplating it.

It is just ****ed.

Mate I know how you feel today.
Can't begin to explain how shithouse I feel this afternoon.
Don't feel like talking to anyone or doing anything but being in a dark room by myself.
Don't really know what's wrong with me, feeling very sad for some reason. Huge lack of self esteem and confidence at the moment.
Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.

 

[nicky]

That sucks Try st Johns wort.

 

[raskolnikov]

I am almost catatonic at the moment. Work is so depressing me at the moment, and I'm not even sure why, besides the fact that I don't like the staff. The work itself is ok. I spent all weekend dreading going back on Monday and now it is almost here I am very tempted to take the day off. I know that will only delay the inevitable but and that I will spend all day tomorrow going back on Tuesday if I do. I'm very tempted to quit, even though it would put a huge financial burden on me. This sucks.

 

[XFactor1979]

Its been well known that I am difficult to get along with and not all that talkative with people in a social sense.

However on the flipside, Im an absolutely crazily creative person who stops at nothing when I dont have boundaries with regards to doing creative projects.

 

[nicky]

I am almost catatonic at the moment. Work is so depressing me at the moment, and I'm not even sure why, besides the fact that I don't like the staff. The work itself is ok. I spent all weekend dreading going back on Monday and now it is almost here I am very tempted to take the day off. I know that will only delay the inevitable but and that I will spend all day tomorrow going back on Tuesday if I do. I'm very tempted to quit, even though it would put a huge financial burden on me. This sucks.

That's very sad to hear NH.

Work is a big one because you spend so much time there. Anyway, I don't know if you know about this so ignore if you do, but the govt will subsidise your psychology visits, you just need to ask for a letter from your GP. Perhaps some CBT or mindfulness therapy could help you from feeling so down.

Otherwise, have you tried st johns wort?

 

[demondude]

I've been suffering from clinical depression ever since the death of my father nearly two years ago. I feel that my main problem is low-self esteem, I struggle to do the day-to-day things that I use to, go for runs, get to uni, the gym, even eat properly. I'm too stubborn to head to the pyschologist anymore, I feel that it's something I have to take control of instead of someone else telling me how to cope. I have been involved in a few broken relationships with close friends and even my family relationship is on the rocks.

I don't know what to do anymore.

 

[nicky]

Get another psychologist. No shame in getting help demondude.

Atleast you're aware of how you feel. Some people mask their feelings with such crap and act like complete arseholes. The path ahead might be hard (over the next little while) but you can get through it. Just make some good decisions now in getting the help you need.

 

[ashley12]

I've been suffering from clinical depression ever since the death of my father nearly two years ago. I feel that my main problem is low-self esteem, I struggle to do the day-to-day things that I use to, go for runs, get to uni, the gym, even eat properly. I'm too stubborn to head to the pyschologist anymore, I feel that it's something I have to take control of instead of someone else telling me how to cope. I have been involved in a few broken relationships with close friends and even my family relationship is on the rocks.

I don't know what to do anymore.

DemonDude, I went through the same kind of things when my father committed suicide a few years ago. A few recommendations from me.

1) At risk of getting the banstick from chief I would say use the computer less in your life, particularly sites like BF and other message board type sites. They can be quite time consuming if you post a lot, and lonely as well. Its far better off to get outside, and seeing people, then stuck in your room

2) Write a massive list of things you want to do and acheive within the next 4 weeks or so. When I wrote mine, it had roughly 120 things to do. From basic things like clean out the pantry and buying a new internet package after cancelling my old ones to things that are more subjective in whether they are done properly such as eating better, jogging/walking each morning. Having the goals on paper makes it so much easier to improve yourself. FWIW I think I did about 70 of 80 things that needed doing, and the rest seem to be going okay such as going out more.

3) TALK TO PEOPLE. Even if its over facebook, make sure that if you are going to spend time on a computer its at least partially talking to people that you care about. Organise to catch up for coffee or lunch, it will not only prove that there are people that care, but give you a reason to get up each morning which is something I didnt always have the first year after my Dad died.

The main thing is to just make sure you have a goal every time you get out of bed. If its to do well in a university assignment, or to actually cook up a decent meal or whatever, by having a reason to get up makes it so much easier particularly if you have a job/lifestyle that doesnt demand getting out of bed early.

 

[raskolnikov]

That's very sad to hear NH.

Work is a big one because you spend so much time there. Anyway, I don't know if you know about this so ignore if you do, but the govt will subsidise your psychology visits, you just need to ask for a letter from your GP. Perhaps some CBT or mindfulness therapy could help you from feeling so down.

Otherwise, have you tried st johns wort?

Thanks for the advice Nicky. I will look into that. I tried St.John's wort quite a few years ago but it didn't seem to do much. I have been on Prozac and Prothiadin in the past and both seemed to work well. I think maybe I should get a prescription from the doctor so I can go on them again.

 

[nicky]

Do what you need to do to get by. Then work towards being happy/content/peaceful - whatever it is you really want. It's your only life project.

edit: did you take the ones where you only need 1 per day (natures own?). Anyway doesn't matter, they don't work for everyone.

 

[Shimmy90]

Had a good night tonight, but now after literally 30 seconds, I feel as miserable as I have been in months.

Even thinking to myself to go down stairs and polish the bottle of vodka down there and have a few painkillers.

Sad thing is, I have no idea why I want to, I know the stupidity of it, yet I'm still contemplating it.

It is just ****ed.

I know the exact same feeling. I can go from feeling really good sometimes to absolute shit. I'll just extract myself from the world, keep to myself and feel really down and i wouldn't know why.

Ever since i was a young lad (I'm 20 now) i've always an 'outcast' so to speak. I never really had many friends growing up, and even now i don't have many mates either.
At a young age- even now but not frequently
-I'd be verbally abused
-Bashed
-Treated like shit coz i wasn't popular or had the latest things
-As an adult its being treated like shit from mangement, coz they think your an absolute idiot who cant do anything right.
Even now as an adult i get paranoid about simple things and i get really anxious. It confuses the crap outta me. Sometimes i'll get that down on myself i won't even bother seeing what mates i have. It's really strange.

Not to mention it shoots ya confidence to do anything.
Scary thought

 

[nicky]

Ever since i was a young lad (I'm 20 now) i've always an 'outcast' so to speak. I never really had many friends growing up, and even now i don't have many mates either.
At a young age- even now but not frequently
-I'd be verbally abused
-Bashed
-Treated like shit coz i wasn't popular or had the latest things
-As an adult its being treated like shit from mangement, coz they think your an absolute idiot who cant do anything right.

That's awful. I hope you stand up for yourself now.