Details on National Comp?

[TWLS]

The local paper in Perth today - The West Australian - has an article on this new comp which over time will build our game further in a very competitive marketplace.
After reading the above article and comparing it with the Perth article the following points surface.
1/ The Elite Group of players will be paid from the outset -About $30,000 a year - This is crucial and spot on. There will be endorsements as well from private sponsors we would think. Read next point.
2/ Gillon Mc Lachlan said he has been contacted directly by companies who are interested in Womens Sports in general and not necessarily football and want to be involved. That is an excellent marker for our game in Australia.
3/The AFL Broadcast partners are ready to go and some games will be broadcast.
4/A Budget of $500,000 set for each club most of which to be shared between the AFL and each club.
That is about all we think.

 

[TWLS]

This article was on the AFL Web Sites front page. There will be increasing media attention from now on we are tipping on Womens Footy as the fans want to know more about the players and their backgrounds.
Hopefully as time goes by the players will become as well known as the men.
The new League has arrived at the right time to counteract the successes of the Diamonds Netball Team and the Matildas who are off to the Olympics it seems.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-03-03/womens-footy-stevens-pumped-for-sundays-match

 

[TWLS]

There have been recent reports that the two WA AFL Teams may field a team each in the new 2017 League. It seems the AFL has not put a cap on the number of interstate teams which is a bit of a surprise. Does this mean if they keep to the eight team model that NSW will miss out given the playing numbers up there. Perhaps 2020 would be a better time to bring them in anyhow.
Forty four of the best WA Women players will be given Eagles and Dockers jumpers on April 9 at Domain Stadium and will play before the Western Derby set down for that day. Perhaps a Mini-Draft to do the allocation.
It is reported also that if they have a license in 2016 the Dockers will base their Womens team at their new $109 million training complex at Cockburn due to open in Jan 2017.
That will be a huge boost for the Womens game in WA overall because a clear definite pathway will be set for the young girls aspiring to go to the top level. There has been a huge amount of talk but not much action so far.

 

[eastfreo75]

There have been recent reports that the two WA AFL Teams may field a team each in the new 2017 League. It seems the AFL has not put a cap on the number of interstate teams which is a bit of a surprise. Does this mean if they keep to the eight team model that NSW will miss out given the playing numbers up there. Perhaps 2020 would be a better time to bring them in anyhow.
Forty four of the best WA Women players will be given Eagles and Dockers jumpers on April 9 at Domain Stadium and will play before the Western Derby set down for that day. Perhaps a Mini-Draft to do the allocation.
It is reported also that if they have a license in 2016 the Dockers will base their Womens team at their new $109 million training complex at Cockburn due to open in Jan 2017.
That will be a huge boost for the Womens game in WA overall because a clear definite pathway will be set for the young girls aspiring to go to the top level. There has been a huge amount of talk but not much action so far.

WA is a women's power house and should have two teams.

 

[Frank J Moose]

Of concern is the ideas that it could be 16 a side with supergoals on smaller fields. Along with a comp that is played in Feb and March it makes it a glorified exhibition series.

The concept of two WA clubs is a sign that relocation of players may be being reviewed. The Melbourne v Bulldogs game today is VWFL based players only.

 

[jatz14]

Of concern is the ideas that it could be 16 a side with supergoals on smaller fields. Along with a comp that is played in Feb and March it makes it a glorified exhibition series.

The concept of two WA clubs is a sign that relocation of players may be being reviewed. The Melbourne v Bulldogs game today is VWFL based players only.

It does smell of Mickey mouse, and if they are not going to take it seriously, not sure they can expect others to.

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[jatz14]

Interview with Brianna Davey and Daisy Pearce, where they cover the issue of relocating players.
Also mentioned the AFLPA is involved, which may be part of the reason for the delay in details.
http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2016-03-04/davey-wersquoll-go-as-hard-as-ever

 

[LeverPuller]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...idered-for-womens-league-20160308-gndycd.html

Key points:
- Father-daughter draft rule may happen.
- Melbourne and the Dogs virtually confirmed. 4 non-Vic clubs suggested - Adelaide, Brisbane, West Coast and a Sydney team.
- Only two Vic clubs not bidding are Hawthorn and North Melbourne.

 

[jatz14]

The WAFC 2015 Annual report has come out, and it highlighted a positive and a negative for womens footy, and the push for the national league.

The positive is a 23.5% increase in participation in 1 year, to a total of 49 087. That is pretty impressive growth for 1 year and shows again why they are pushing for a national league.

The negative also shows the reason for the push for the national league, and the problem with that push.

49087 female participants in footy in WA support a grand total of, drum roll...... 14 senior teams. Allowing 25 players per team, that is 350 active senior club players. Another stat shows that of senior players in WA, 2% are female, so the various figures on female participation rates need to be put in perspective. I suspect female participation as a percentage of total is highest at Ozkick, and drops there after.

There are a number of possible reasons for this, some good and some bad.

First, the push into female footy, and the attempt to boost numbers and create participation pathways is a new thing, so there will be a bubble of juniors moving through the ranks that just has not had time to hit senior footy yet, so there could be a boost coming over the next few years.

The bad (and it is pretty bad), is that according to the 2014 report, there were 18 senior womens teams last year, so we lost 4 teams in a period of growth. Youth girls teams went up by 8 from 24 to 32, and junior girls were unchanged at 38. So a 24% increase in participation lead to no net change in juniors, 8 more youth teams, and 4 less senior teams, a net gain of 4 to go from 80 to 84 female club teams. Considering that the 2014 report said there were 1900 female club players, at a time it had 18 clubs, you have to question their stats. I find it highly unlikely you could have 100+ players per team, and then have the comp shrink the following year.

I have felt for a while that the health of womens footy in WA has been grossly overestimated based on a good crop of talent at the top.

Some of this may be explained by the WAWFL administration itself, which I have heard poor things about. This is the group that finding it had a reserves team that was winning every game, decided to stick it into the seniors comp (against the clubs wishes)half way through the season, before back tracking after it realised the shitstorm it created).

 

[Frank J Moose]

This is the group that finding it had a reserves team that was winning every game, decided to stick it into the seniors comp (against the clubs wishes)half way through the season, before back tracking after it realised the shitstorm it created).

This statement needs context. One club was almost destroyed during this debarcle- the side in the reserves had lobbied to be dropped from league to reserves by "misleading" the WAWFL about their strenght. They promoted, completely against their wishes a side from div 2, below reserves, (who had lost some best young players poached by "big" teams) to league. That team was completely uncompetitive and lost more than half of the team who gave up, had only five home games as they split them with the "reserves" team which further damaged their viability.

The WAWFL tried to correct the error. The reserves would win by 20 goals while the team that was in league would lose by 30. To give competitive games the WAWFL reversed the fixtures but the "reserves" team complained to the WAFC who reversed the decision. The club that was forced to play league was almost destroyed, lost every game and is still recovering three seasons on.

While i am not a fan of the WAWFL admin, as it is too conflicted with self interest it tried to do the right thing here.

As for the rest of the comment it is made only by looking at base numbers. The issue is in concentration of players at 5 clubs. Rather than develop players (as the youth girls is only being fully developed in the past few seasons) if you show any ability the big clubs poach them. It limits the number of clubs at the top level and stifles improvement in the other sides. The number of players you lose because of the domination of the few sides is huge. Clubs get stuck with 35 players and one team. But they don't want to play league as they eill be non competitive, lose a top player or two for the next season and it continues.

There is talent and talent coming through but no incentive to play for mid tier players to play and develop. With the right league structure and development programs the game could thrive but the WAWFL are wracked with self interest and the WAFC treat it as a sideshow and are disinterested in the womens game.

 

[jatz14]

This statement needs context. One club was almost destroyed during this debarcle- the side in the reserves had lobbied to be dropped from league to reserves by "misleading" the WAWFL about their strenght. They promoted, completely against their wishes a side from div 2, below reserves, (who had lost some best young players poached by "big" teams) to league. That team was completely uncompetitive and lost more than half of the team who gave up, had only five home games as they split them with the "reserves" team which further damaged their viability.

The WAWFL tried to correct the error. The reserves would win by 20 goals while the team that was in league would lose by 30. To give competitive games the WAWFL reversed the fixtures but the "reserves" team complained to the WAFC who reversed the decision. The club that was forced to play league was almost destroyed, lost every game and is still recovering three seasons on.

While i am not a fan of the WAWFL admin, as it is too conflicted with self interest it tried to do the right thing here.

As for the rest of the comment it is made only by looking at base numbers. The issue is in concentration of players at 5 clubs. Rather than develop players (as the youth girls is only being fully developed in the past few seasons) if you show any ability the big clubs poach them. It limits the number of clubs at the top level and stifles improvement in the other sides. The number of players you lose because of the domination of the few sides is huge. Clubs get stuck with 35 players and one team. But they don't want to play league as they eill be non competitive, lose a top player or two for the next season and it continues.

There is talent and talent coming through but no incentive to play for mid tier players to play and develop. With the right league structure and development programs the game could thrive but the WAWFL are wracked with self interest and the WAFC treat it as a sideshow and are disinterested in the womens game.

My understanding (from afar, so I could be wrong), was that the team that played reserves and dominated had a bunch of players who had indicated that they were not going to come back if the team played league. This was to the point that they would have really struggled in league. So they went to reserves based on this. Those players then stayed, because they were not league, and the team then dominated. So if the decision had not been overturned, and those players had walked away from football, this club would have been left playing a league final series (they were going to keep the points they got in reserves, for the league, so would have made the finals), with a team that may well have been a midtable reserves quality side. So there was no misrepresentation, they gave a real indication of their strength, had they played league.

The issue remains, that the core problem went unaddressed, and the league attempted to impose an unworkable and unfair bandaid solution, to what was a symptom of the core problem mid season.

What does a club do this year, or next if the same situation develops, which it might, where a bunch of players indicate they will not play league. Go to league based on the team you would have had in reserves, lose a bunch of players, and get smashed, or go to reserves with a team good enough for league, and dominate.

 

[Frank J Moose]

My understanding (from afar, so I could be wrong), was that the team that played reserves and dominated had a bunch of players who had indicated that they were not going to come back if the team played league. This was to the point that they would have really struggled in league. So they went to reserves based on this. Those players then stayed, because they were not league, and the team then dominated. So if the decision had not been overturned, and those players had walked away from football, this club would have been left playing a league final series (they were going to keep the points they got in reserves, for the league, so would have made the finals), with a team that may well have been a midtable reserves quality side. So there was no misrepresentation, they gave a real indication of their strength, had they played league.

The issue remains, that the core problem went unaddressed, and the league attempted to impose an unworkable and unfair bandaid solution, to what was a symptom of the core problem mid season.

What does a club do this year, or next if the same situation develops, which it might, where a bunch of players indicate they will not play league. Go to league based on the team you would have had in reserves, lose a bunch of players, and get smashed, or go to reserves with a team good enough for league, and dominate.

But they completely destroyed the other club that lost its players as they were forced to play league. You had a team that was 15 goals better than another team playing reserves while the other team was playing league. There was a three week patch where the team in league was outscored 600+ to nil.

Both teams should have been in reserves from the start. The solution of swapping the teams would have been better than watching one club be pummelled into oblivion.

The WAWFL need a strategy to assist teams in developing a two team structure for all clubs. They tried points and it failed because Coastals and Swans tried to manipulate it. And they still try to manipulate the system by having girls as young as 14 and 15 move because it "increases their chances" of making rep teams.

 

[Sherrinator]

So inless there ia draft that moves players interstate WA will romp home.

QLD participation is 30k higher than WA. What makes you think a team of 22 from WA will romp home?

 

[jatz14]

QLD participation is 30k higher than WA. What makes you think a team of 22 from WA will romp home?

The quality of the top level comp is higher, so players have a smaller step up. However, if WA does not pull it's finger out, that could change over time.

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[eastfreo75]

QLD participation is 30k higher than WA. What makes you think a team of 22 from WA will romp home?

Going by the percentages in last years ll star game, WA had twice as many players than QLD.

 

[Sherrinator]

Going by the percentages in last years ll star game, WA had twice as many players than QLD.

Maybe QLD female players aren't well publicised. A bit like QLD male players not getting drafted pre-academies.

I'd also imagine that top-line coaching will take advantage of our deep playing pool. Probably the biggest thing WA women's football has going for it.

 

[eastfreo75]

Maybe QLD female players aren't well publicised. A bit like QLD male players not getting drafted pre-academies.

Qld will get there for sure. WA atm is better, but if the national starts with only one WA Team, that team will dominate.

 

[Sherrinator]

Qld will get there for sure. WA atm is better, but if the national starts with only one WA Team, that team will dominate.

So be it if it means overheads are lower.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

The Queensland Academy played the Victorian Academy in two matches over the weekend.

Both games contained different squads.

In game one on Friday night at Whitten Oval, the Vics won by 2 points.

In game two on Sunday afternoon at Punt Road, the Vics won by 65 points!

 

[CrowdedHouse]

For those who missed it, the details outlining the new women's national league.

http://www.[NB: girlsplayfooty doma.../official-tendering-process-outlined-for.html

 

[TWLS]

For those who missed it, the details outlining the new women's national league.

http://www.[NB: girlsplayfooty doma.../official-tendering-process-outlined-for.html

The topic of the number of teams was discussed at length on this thread several weeks ago, and some of us thought 6 teams was the way to go, with the current state of talent development. The 8 person committee agrees with us.
They will probably go for 8 teams for the "image" and "perception" that is so important to indicate that there more talent available than actually is.
Looks like the 16 a side and shorter quarters idea is not popular.

 

[Frank J Moose]

6 or 8 teams and the February March season is the current league executives trying to protect what they have and not lose their empires to the new national competition. It's an exhibition season of 7 games. A proper season would mean the end as they know it of the Darebin Falcons and the Coastal Titans. A scenario they cant and won't face. If this mob was in charge of the VFL and WAFL the national comp wiuld never have got iff the ground.

Vested self interest and a lack of vision will kill the concept.

 

[jatz14]

6 or 8 teams and the February March season is the current league executives trying to protect what they have and not lose their empires to the new national competition. It's an exhibition season of 7 games. A proper season would mean the end as they know it of the Darebin Falcons and the Coastal Titans. A scenario they cant and won't face. If this mob was in charge of the VFL and WAFL the national comp wiuld never have got iff the ground.

Vested self interest and a lack of vision will kill the concept.

I am anticipating that the league will look like a more conventional comp by 2020 (original start date). Longer season, more played in winter.

This start is the compromise made to bring it forward.

I also think you are right that it is done to protect the state leagues, but I do not think this represents vested interest.

The concern that taking out 200 of the best players hurts the comps so much they no longer act as effective feeders for the national league. Greater depth fixes that in 3 - 5 years.

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[Frank J Moose]

I am anticipating that the league will look like a more conventional comp by 2020 (original start date). Longer season, more played in winter.

This start is the compromise made to bring it forward.

I also think you are right that it is done to protect the state leagues, but I do not think this represents vested interest.

The concern that taking out 200 of the best players hurts the comps so much they no longer act as effective feeders for the national league. Greater depth fixes that in 3 - 5 years.

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Taking the players out of the "big" clubs would make the competition (at least in WA) better. There is no point of teams trying to move up to league. It just is so uncompetitive it stops people playing the game. The players returning will have little impact on improving the feeder leagues as they just play amongst themselves anyway.You don't learn anything when you lose by 15 goals. The 2nd tier players would get the chance to step up without the elite players dominating.

 

[jatz14]

WA is probably the most extreme example. Look at Vic, they have to field 4 squads of 25 out of a top league of 10. They will almost certainly have players try to get into teams like NSW and SA. This really hurts the standard of the comp. Essentially it would replicate what happened to Essendon, but to an entire league.

However, I still think this is true for only a few years

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