Developing Adelaide's city precinct

[aneale]

ensured that the stakes are high enough for the ACC to want to make it work somehow. There are also a few big businesses that want to see this happen.

The ACC has got to be getting flak from Traders, there are so many of them teetering in the City that they have to go this way. They have long been the second rate cousins to the big Westfield style suburban Centres that its just about now or never for many of them. The hope that footy fans can be dragged into the Mall before and outlying venues after games has to be their main priority now.

 

[Power freak 2008]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

The ACC has got to be getting flak from Traders, there are so many of them teetering in the City that they have to go this way. They have long been the second rate cousins to the big Westfield style suburban Centres that its just about now or never for many of them. The hope that footy fans can be dragged into the Mall before and outlying venues after games has to be their main priority now.

The real pressure may be coming from the big investors. The council and the traders are also being proactive and they have met to discuss ideas to revamp Rundle Mall. It is getting a complete overhaul. They say that the impression of the city comes from the city center so they have put forward a few proposals make a lasting impression on people who visit Adelaide. There are also businesses that know they will make huge profits from footy so they want to be well placed. The revamp will be completed before AO is finished.

 

[Portsmeff]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

The ACC has got to be getting flak from Traders, there are so many of them teetering in the City that they have to go this way. They have long been the second rate cousins to the big Westfield style suburban Centres that its just about now or never for many of them. The hope that footy fans can be dragged into the Mall before and outlying venues after games has to be their main priority now.

Despite what the Westfield sponsored media dribbles out, the real fact is that Rundle Mall is one the best and successful shopping precincts in Australia and no Westfield will ever get close the retail space, sales, retail mix, high end fashion or number of pedestrians and atmosphere of Rundle Mall and Rundle Street. For some reason the Advertiser loves to make up yet more 'facts' about Rundle Mall dying when nothing could be further from the truth. Anyone been to tea Tree Plaza lately, what a depressing hole. Westfields are vile

 

[Power freak 2008]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

Despite what the Westfield sponsored media dribbles out, the real fact is that Rundle Mall is one the best and successful shopping precincts in Australia and no Westfield will ever get close the retail space, sales, retail mix, high end fashion or number of pedestrians and atmosphere of Rundle Mall and Rundle Street. For some reason the Advertiser loves to make up yet more 'facts' about Rundle Mall dying when nothing could be further from the truth. Anyone been to tea Tree Plaza lately, what a depressing hole. Westfields are vile

The meeting that the traders had suggested the contrary. At the peak the estimated retail that went through the city was close to 20% but it is now between 12-15%. They see this as a significant drop but will work hard to rectify the trend.

 

[Portology]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

The meeting that the traders had suggested the contrary. At the peak the estimated retail that went through the city was close to 20% but it is now between 12-15%. They see this as a significant drop but will work hard to rectify the trend.

TBH Mall & Rundle St do seem to work but Myer centre looks a graveyard and the old DJs building is 1-2 closures away from that status. It's only the open retailers who get to say how things are going so... "let's not have a referendum on it".

Walked from KW St to ACC today in search of a wine show. Striking how like an unfinished Southbank promenade the area is, but the older major buildings were originally built focused on North Tce or King William St. Couldn't be that difficult to add a bunch of small river facing restaurant size buildings to fill in that 'gap' between the festival center and the new part of the ACC, justifying the investment on increased overall precinct traffic from a revived AO. You'd think the ACC has the most to gain from that.

 

[Spadge]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

The meeting that the traders had suggested the contrary. At the peak the estimated retail that went through the city was close to 20% but it is now between 12-15%. They see this as a significant drop but will work hard to rectify the trend.

alot of this is due to convenience.

its more convenient to go to suburban shopping centres. Most people live closer to a major one than they do the city. They dont have the hassle of paying for carparking not to mention taking forever to find a park.
Its a right pain in the arse

I live in Paralowie and i have Elizabeth, Parabanks, Hollywood Plaza Munno Para and TTP all within 15 minutes of my place. I can take my pick, drive there and not have any carkparking issues, and everthing i need is there

if i go to the city it takes me 25 minutes to drive there, the hassle of driving around the city, then paying through the nose to park in a U-Park for the pleasure

Its just not worth it for me to go to the City to shop...

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

If the peak was 20% - say 20 years ago then it makes sense they can only get 15% now. Look at where the people have moved to outer suburbs and how big those areas have become. Why would you regularly drive 40+kms to go to town if you live Norlunga way or Elizabeth way just to shop? Plus look how big some of the suburban shopping centres are these days. Unless you are looking for a specialty store or item, why would you travel to town just to shop, if you can get everything you want closer to home?

The Rundle Mall traders are always finding some excuse to have a whinge and trying to blame someone else for their businesses not doing as well as they want to.

A city stadium will help them marginally at best. It's the whole river front development that might help them more, but I doubt it will be much of a benefit to the Rundle Mall traders.

 

[Quadzilla]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

The Rundle Mall traders are always finding some excuse to have a whinge and trying to blame someone else for their businesses not doing as well as they want to.

A city stadium will help them marginally at best. It's the whole river front development that might help them more, but I doubt it will be much of a benefit to the Rundle Mall traders.

... can we berth super passenger liners at the Elder PARK? Mall opened at 9am last sunday for the thousands of QMII people who were clammering to shop!!!

 

[Andre]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

The Rundle Mall traders are always finding some excuse to have a whinge and trying to blame someone else for their businesses not doing as well as they want to.

Shopping hours are an easy way to give them some help. I work on the cities edge and walk through the mall at around 8.15-8.30. The city is full of people off of trains, buses or cars, yet shops aren't open yet.

Let shops in the CBD open from 7am (without it being classified as needing to pay overtime or the like). I know I'd find it convenient to duck into a shop on the way to work instead of hoping they'll still be open on the way back. Which is the other side of it. The CBD's normal shopping hours that don't incur overtime should be 7am - 7pm, 6 days a week (Friday nights 7am - 10pm).

A massive potential market of workers travelling to or from work is largely pissed against a wall due to shop workers unions thinking anyone working at 5.01 pm (or before 11am on a Sunday) will lead to the collapse of soceity as it's known (and those other states that don't can't be taken as evidence to the contrary obviously )

/END OFF TOPIC RANT ABOUT 1950's COUNTRY TOWN SHOPPING HOURS IN SA

 

[Portsmeff]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

The meeting that the traders had suggested the contrary. At the peak the estimated retail that went through the city was close to 20% but it is now between 12-15%. They see this as a significant drop but will work hard to rectify the trend.

thats true but these are relative numbers. Its natural that as a metro area grows, new retail space opens on the fringe which means the proportion of shopping in the CBD falls. But only in % terms. But in absolute/real numbers, ie pedestrian flows, retail floorspace, sales and retail mix, nothing will ever, ever get close to what Rundle Mall has. The city centre of Adelaide (not just Rundle Mall but all of it) has around 30% more retail space than the city centres of Brisbane and perth, despite those cites being around 80% and 50% larger than Adelaide. What it means that if you compare retail spending in the suburbs compared to the CBD, Adelaide has the most dominant and strongest CBD in Australia for retail

 

[aneale]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

Shopping hours are an easy way to give them some help. I work on the cities edge and walk through the mall at around 8.15-8.30. The city is full of people off of trains, buses or cars, yet shops aren't open yet.

Let shops in the CBD open from 7am (without it being classified as needing to pay overtime or the like). I know I'd find it convenient to duck into a shop on the way to work instead of hoping they'll still be open on the way back. Which is the other side of it. The CBD's normal shopping hours that don't incur overtime should be 7am - 7pm, 6 days a week (Friday nights 7am - 10pm).

A massive potential market of workers travelling to or from work is largely pissed against a wall due to shop workers unions thinking anyone working at 5.01 pm (or before 11am on a Sunday) will lead to the collapse of soceity as it's known (and those other states that don't can't be taken as evidence to the contrary obviously )

/END OFF TOPIC RANT ABOUT 1950's COUNTRY TOWN SHOPPING HOURS IN SA

Or here's an idea. Open and pay staff T.5, without Business owners and Business SA thinking it will be the collapse of society if they pay O/T.

 

[Power freak 2008]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

thats true but these are relative numbers. Its natural that as a metro area grows, new retail space opens on the fringe which means the proportion of shopping in the CBD falls. But only in % terms. But in absolute/real numbers, ie pedestrian flows, retail floorspace, sales and retail mix, nothing will ever, ever get close to what Rundle Mall has. The city centre of Adelaide (not just Rundle Mall but all of it) has around 30% more retail space than the city centres of Brisbane and perth, despite those cites being around 80% and 50% larger than Adelaide. What it means that if you compare retail spending in the suburbs compared to the CBD, Adelaide has the most dominant and strongest CBD in Australia for retail

I think you need to have a chat to the retailers in the city center. They identified that they are behind where they want to be. They also feel that the city needs a makeover. This is what they want and not based on the opinions of others or the papers. The person I talked to is a business owner and we chat once a week about footy amongst other things. The traders believe that there are too many sluggish periods, traffic has reduced over the years and they need to diverify the brand in the city. This is why they identified attracting larger retailers as a priority along with other innovative strategies. I don't think that many people will dispute that the city is missing a lot of the bigger stores that makes going to the city worthwhile. These stores have moved to some of the suburban locations due to cost, availability of parking and other trends. It would be folly to close your eyes and think that everything is ok without looking to the future

 

[Andre]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

I don't think that many people will dispute that the city is missing a lot of the bigger stores that makes going to the city worthwhile. These stores have moved to some of the suburban locations due to cost, availability of parking and other trends. It would be folly to close your eyes and think that everything is ok without looking to the future

It's not just stores. The city has no mainstream cinema's left and clubs and entertainment venues are scattered across the city. It's why the alternative to AO of a complete entertainment precinct where the railyards were, including a new stadium was the better option on offer at the last election (for anyone not happy with the young just bailing on the state and SA increasingly becoming the Florida of Australia). It's too bad only 52% odd percent voted that way

With what's on offer, there really needs to be more done with the riverfront to maximise the AO experience and try to pull people there and then onwards to the Mall and surrounds. The other AO - All Oldfarts (or at least act so), otherwise known as Adelaide Council need to have all development power around the whole area stripped from them so it doesn't become Adelaide Oval sitting on it's own and not being leveraged for the benefit of the city and the state.

 

[Portsmeff]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

I think you need to have a chat to the retailers in the city center. They identified that they are behind where they want to be. They also feel that the city needs a makeover. This is what they want and not based on the opinions of others or the papers. The person I talked to is a business owner and we chat once a week about footy amongst other things. The traders believe that there are too many sluggish periods, traffic has reduced over the years and they need to diverify the brand in the city. This is why they identified attracting larger retailers as a priority along with other innovative strategies. I don't think that many people will dispute that the city is missing a lot of the bigger stores that makes going to the city worthwhile. These stores have moved to some of the suburban locations due to cost, availability of parking and other trends. It would be folly to close your eyes and think that everything is ok without looking to the future

what you have described is also happening to the Westfields as a result of our current economic environment. And what bigger stores have closed in the city and moved to the suburbs?

Have you noticed stores like Saba, Sass & bide, American aparellel, marcs, Jack London, Lisa Ho, Alanah Hill, Adidas and other high end fashion stores open in Rundle St in the past year. And the many independent fashion shops such as around Ebenezor Place. Many of them wouldnt be seen dead in daggy Westfields, and this is the brand that the city centre is pursuing and has been quite successful. The large scale building of student apartments hasn't done any harm to foot traffic also

 

[Papa G]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

What the city needs is more people living in it.

 

[Andre]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

What the city needs is more people living in it.

Yeah, again the wonderful Adelaide City Council wants to Groundhog Day the city. Everytime a proposal for a residence over a couple of stories gets put up they protest it. It's only when it then gets over-ruled by the State government it gets a go. You can understand why developers (hello Le Cornu's site!) just go 'WTF bother, I'll just do it in another city in Australia'.

Either the ACC needs to get larger, along the lines of Brisbane, so it isn't beholden to such a small set of residents, or it needs to be sacked, as Kennett did to the Melbourne council and legislation amended to clearly restrict it's powers.

That and don't worry if allowing taller building in Adelaide causes the flight paths to have to change. I can live with $5 more a flight and an extra 5 minutes flying to or from Adelaide to have our skyline look something like a city in the 21st century.

 

[Papa G]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

Yeah, again the wonderful Adelaide City Council wants to Groundhog Day the city. Everytime a proposal for a residence over a couple of stories gets put up they protest it. It's only when it then gets over-ruled by the State government it gets a go. You can understand why developers (hello Le Cornu's site!) just go 'WTF bother, I'll just do it in another city in Australia'.

Either the ACC needs to get larger, along the lines of Brisbane, so it isn't beholden to such a small set of residents, or it needs to be sacked, as Kennett did to the Melbourne council and legislation amended to clearly restrict it's powers.

That and don't worry if allowing taller building in Adelaide causes the flight paths to have to change. I can live with $5 more a flight and an extra 5 minutes flying to or from Adelaide to have our skyline look something like a city in the 21st century.

Whilst I agree that ACC is a huge problem (although Harbinson, albeit when his term was finished seemed to be a massive advocate for getting more people in the city), the blame can somewhat also be levelled at the Adelaidean attitude/mentality as well. Adelaide has never been anything other than a low density city. It's a suburbanite's paradise. Even in the inner city areas, there is virtually no terrace houses, workers cottages are no where near as prevelant as they are in other Aust cities, and high rise apartment blocks are vitually non existant. I used to own a 1913 masionette in Mile End and it was still on 450 sq metres ffs. Adelaideans have always had space. It is a major shift in attitude to get people to live in medium or high density housing.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

what you have described is also happening to the Westfields as a result of our current economic environment. And what bigger stores have closed in the city and moved to the suburbs?

Have you noticed stores like Saba, Sass & bide, American aparellel, marcs, Jack London, Lisa Ho, Alanah Hill, Adidas and other high end fashion stores open in Rundle St in the past year. And the many independent fashion shops such as around Ebenezor Place. Many of them wouldnt be seen dead in daggy Westfields, and this is the brand that the city centre is pursuing and has been quite successful. The large scale building of student apartments hasn't done any harm to foot traffic also

The city council better keep going this way, because last time I walked through Rundle Mall I felt like I was walking through TTP. All the shops were the same. Same phone stores, same fashion stores, same everything, which screamed at me, why bother coming all the way to the city when I can go to a Westfield?

I must say, footy at A.O still wouldn't make me shop or go into the city centre, but accessibility will be alot better

 

[Andre]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

Whilst I agree that ACC is a huge problem (although Harbinson, albeit when his term was finished seemed to be a massive advocate for getting more people in the city), the blame can somewhat also be levelled at the Adelaidean attitude/mentality as well. Adelaide has never been anything other than a low density city. It's a suburbanite's paradise. Even in the inner city areas, there is virtually no terrace houses, workers cottages are no where near as prevelant as they are in other Aust cities, and high rise apartment blocks are vitually non existant. I used to own a 1913 masionette in Mile End and it was still on 450 sq metres ffs. Adelaideans have always had space. It is a major shift in attitude to get people to live in medium or high density housing.

There doesn't need to be wholesale apartments through the suburbs. I hate the look of Sydney when I travel there. High rise residential in the city (> 10 stories, preferably > 20 stories) and along the like of Glenelg, Port Adelaide, etc. combined with medium density (up to 5 stories) along main roads or next to train stations isn't going the Sydney route of apartment blocks on any old street. There's a happy medium that I agree to many in Adelaide can't see.

 

[Portia]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

They can't see it, because I think they realise that someone will have to live in those high and medium density developments if they exist. They're much happier living in a rundown house in Ferryden Park.

If you're living in Adelaide and your kids can't muck about in the backyard or street, you might as well be in Sydney or Melbourne.

 

[Papa G]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

They can't see it, because I think they realise that someone will have to live in those high and medium density developments if they exist. They're much happier living in a rundown house in Ferryden Park.

If you're living in Adelaide and your kids can't muck about in the backyard or street, you might as well be in Sydney or Melbourne.

Yeah that's the kind of point I was making. The actual demand just isn't there. Unless we get an influx of 10,000 more wealthy Asian students or urban hipsters, it's hard to see a way of making it happen. All of my mates that have moved back here from Sydney are doing so because they want their nice house in the eastern suburbs with a pool and a bit of space. Most have taken a hit in salary to do so, but with a couple of juniors in tow, they have gotten sick of the inner city lifestyle, one which was exciting to them just 5 years ago.

 

[Andre]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

They can't see it, because I think they realise that someone will have to live in those high and medium density developments if they exist. They're much happier living in a rundown house in Ferryden Park.

If you're living in Adelaide and your kids can't muck about in the backyard or street, you might as well be in Sydney or Melbourne.

That's where the government via planning laws comes in. Instead of taking away productive farming land at Mt. Barker change laws to approve the high rises in the city/glenelg/Port Adelaide and medium density along main roads/around train stations. With no new housing estates on the city fringes people will have a choice of moving into medium/high density or way out of town. The suburbs are filled with plenty of people without kids yet or their kids have left home that don't need the backyard.

 

[Portia]

Re: Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happenin

Yes, but people currently in houses that don't have kids yet, or the ones whose kids have left home, are usually the ones most able to afford to stay in their houses.

Most people buying these Mt. Barker plots are first home buyers with young families. Cutting out those developments means that the people most likely to choose to be in Adelaide for the opportunity to live in a house, now no longer have an incentive to stay in Adelaide compared to other cities.