Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[kat1234]

I think GJs suspicions towards Savage are not totally unjustified for 2 reasons.

1. The covert operation in which GJ planted a Spider-Man outfit within view of Savages walking track. (In which according to GJ, Savage spotted the outfit and didn’t report until the following day.)

2. Savages knowledge of the silver colour on the back of WTs Spider-Man outfit even though no photo was released of the back of WT with the outfit on.

If these 2 facts are correct (please correct me if I’m wrong), it could move a POI into the suspect category.

This does not excuse the refusal to move past Savage as a suspect once his alibi checked out. But it could explain why he was a suspect at all.

What’s your source for your “facts”?

 

[kat1234]

When will a court make an AVO in New South Wales?

Court ordered Apprehended Domestic Violence Orders:


A court is to make an ADVO if it is satisfied that the person seeking protection has, or has had, a domestic relationship with the defendant and fears the defendant will commit domestic violence. In some circumstances, there is no need to prove that the person actually fears for their safety. This includes situations when the protected person is a child under 16 years of age.


What kind of conditions are included in an AVO in NSW?
A court may order whatever restrictions on a defendant’s behaviour it thinks fit to ensure the safety and protection of the protected person and their children.

However, section 36 of the Crimes (Domestic and Personal Violence) Act 2007 states that every AVO must contain the three following conditions that prohibit the defendant from:

1. Assaulting, threatening, molesting, harassing, or interfering with the protected person;
2. Stalking or threatening the protected person; and
3. Intentionally or recklessly destroying or damaging any property belonging to the protected person.

Other types of conditions that may be imposed include a condition that the defendant cannot approach the protected person, or prohibiting the defendant from approaching the protected person within 12 hours of consuming alcohol or illicit drugs.

From my previous post/

‘A court is to make an ADVO if it is satisfied that the person seeking protection has, or has had, a domestic relationship with the defendant and fears “the defendant will commit domestic violence”.’


1. I wonder why the homicide squad fear that Former female foster carer and former male foster carer will commit domestic violence against LT (WT sister?) I’m just wondering what caused the police to come to this conclusion?

2. And how can this not be connected to the WT investigation? Why do the police fear for LT so much?

3. Do you think she has told them something incriminating about her carers with relation to WT matter?

4. Do you think the police have had listening devices in the home that have recorded threats being made or domestic violence occurring?

As the AVO is against the FF and FM does that mean both are capable of violence against a child?

What bearing does this have on the WT case? If they are capable of violence now how can they not have been capable of violence back then ?

 

[RexM]

What’s your source for your “facts”?

Article about covert operation

Spiderman suit used in undercover sting against William Tyrrell person of interest

Police planted a Spiderman suit on a walking track and hid in bushes to see if Paul Savage — a suspect in William Tyrrell's disappearance — took it, a court hears.

www.abc.net.au

This article shows that Savage was recorded telling his dead wife that the police were onto him and not to tell anyone etc etc.

'Don’t tell anyone': Secret recording of William Tyrrell’s neighbour revealed in court

Listening bugs planted in the investigation into missing William Tyrrell caught a widower muttering "make sure you don't tell anyone", a Sydney court has heard.

www.sbs.com.au

GJ talks about it on heaps of podcasts, it’s all in the court documents and all over the news. It’s public knowledge.

 

[kat1234]

Article about covert operation

Spiderman suit used in undercover sting against William Tyrrell person of interest

Police planted a Spiderman suit on a walking track and hid in bushes to see if Paul Savage — a suspect in William Tyrrell's disappearance — took it, a court hears.

www.abc.net.au

This article shows that Savage was recorded telling his dead wife that the police were onto him and not to tell anyone etc etc.

'Don’t tell anyone': Secret recording of William Tyrrell’s neighbour revealed in court

Listening bugs planted in the investigation into missing William Tyrrell caught a widower muttering "make sure you don't tell anyone", a Sydney court has heard.

www.sbs.com.au

GJ talks about it on heaps of podcasts, it’s all in the court documents and all over the news. It’s public knowledge.

Ok. Where does it say about the silver on the back of the suit?

 

[RexM]

Ok. Where does it say about the silver on the back of the suit?

That’s in the transcript from the Savage interviews. Also mentioned by Andrew Rule in Life and Crimes and Gary’s interview. It was the reason for the almost punch up between Gary and the other detective at homicide. I’m not home atm but will link on Monday for you.

 

[kat1234]

That’s in the transcript from the Savage interviews. Also mentioned by Andrew Rule in Life and Crimes and Gary’s interview. It was the reason for the almost punch up between Gary and the other detective at homicide. I’m not home atm but will link on Monday for you.

Thank you.

 

[RexM]

From my previous post/

‘A court is to make an ADVO if it is satisfied that the person seeking protection has, or has had, a domestic relationship with the defendant and fears “the defendant will commit domestic violence”.’


1. I wonder why the homicide squad fear that Former female foster carer and former male foster carer will commit domestic violence against LT (WT sister?) I’m just wondering what caused the police to come to this conclusion?

2. And how can this not be connected to the WT investigation? Why do the police fear for LT so much?

3. Do you think she has told them something incriminating about her carers with relation to WT matter?

4. Do you think the police have had listening devices in the home that have recorded threats being made or domestic violence occurring?

As the AVO is against the FF and FM does that mean both are capable of violence against a child?

What bearing does this have on the WT case? If they are capable of violence now how can they not have been capable of violence back then ?

It’s possible that the police have used this AVO simply as a method to remove LT from the FP whilst they build their case. I don’t believe that they would have a covert operation running on the FP at the moment because it takes quite a lot of evidence to apply for a covert warrant.

Rosann might have reviewed previous interviews with LT, pulled some minor domestic event out of a statement and used that to apply for the AVO.

With LT out of the FP care, and if the coroner has found WT to be deceased in his findings - that will remove potential conflicts with NSW Foster legislation from the case, which will give Rosann more investigative power over the FP.

source -https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/MAR.0001.001.0966.pdf

 

[JWS2019]

It’s possible that the police have used this AVO simply as a method to remove LT from the FP whilst they build their case. I don’t believe that they would have a covert operation running on the FP at the moment because it takes quite a lot of evidence to apply for a covert warrant.

Rosann might have reviewed previous interviews with LT, pulled some minor domestic event out of a statement and used that to apply for the AVO.

With LT out of the FP care, and if the coroner has found WT to be deceased in his findings - that will remove potential conflicts with NSW Foster legislation from the case, which will give Rosann more investigative power over the FP.

source -https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/MAR.0001.001.0966.pdf

This is what I think however... I did start to speculate in the last couple days maybe this was an outside report and was brought to attention of the taskforce, and is what made The task force reconsider everything said from day 1.

 

[RexM]

This is what I think however... I did start to speculate in the last couple days maybe this was an outside report and was brought to attention of the taskforce, and is what made The task force reconsider everything said from day 1.

They have said that they are working of new evidence - which would be required for the warrant used to seize FGs car.

 

[Collie_wobbles]

It’s possible that the police have used this AVO simply as a method to remove LT from the FP whilst they build their case. I don’t believe that they would have a covert operation running on the FP at the moment because it takes quite a lot of evidence to apply for a covert warrant.

Rosann might have reviewed previous interviews with LT, pulled some minor domestic event out of a statement and used that to apply for the AVO.

With LT out of the FP care, and if the coroner has found WT to be deceased in his findings - that will remove potential conflicts with NSW Foster legislation from the case, which will give Rosann more investigative power over the FP.

source -https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/MAR.0001.001.0966.pdf

A Covert operation may have been ordered by the Coroner, she has higher power than the Police.

I also think a 2nd phone found for FM may have brought new evidence to the taskforce, was spoken about in the 2gb radio interview with Ben Fordham and GJ. We know media love to slip in little clues IMO

 

[JWS2019]

They have said that they are working of new evidence - which would be required for the warrant used to seize FGs car.

Just speculating ofcourse but could this be new evidence? POI certainly change if an AVO is requested maybe alongside of something not quite adding up IMO.

 

[BFew]

A Covert operation may have been ordered by the Coroner, she has higher power than the Police.

The Coroner probably caring for the foster daughter in ways that should have been done years ago, given the risk (IMO) of allowing the foster parents care for any foster children since not long after William disappeared.

 

[kat1234]

A Covert operation may have been ordered by the Coroner, she has higher power than the Police.

I also think a 2nd phone found for FM may have brought new evidence to the taskforce, was spoken about in the 2gb radio interview with Ben Fordham and GJ. We know media love to slip in little clues IMO

Oh wow RE second phone.

 

[kat1234]

This is what I think however... I did start to speculate in the last couple days maybe this was an outside report and was brought to attention of the taskforce, and is what made The task force reconsider everything said from day 1.

This is a good theory.

 

[RexM]

A Covert operation may have been ordered by the Coroner, she has higher power than the Police.

I also think a 2nd phone found for FM may have brought new evidence to the taskforce, was spoken about in the 2gb radio interview with Ben Fordham and GJ. We know media love to slip in little clues IMO

Although I’m pretty sure the coroner can only make recommendations to police, it definitely seems the coroner has had an impact on the investigation.

I can’t wait to hear the findings.

 

[Kurve]

I also think a 2nd phone found for FM may have brought new evidence to the taskforce, was spoken about in the 2gb radio interview with Ben Fordham and GJ. We know media love to slip in little clues IMO

That's really interesting. No idea if it implies the phone was hidden by the FM then found or if it just wasn't examined thoroughly at the time. Shocker either way but.

Police to investigate former homicide detective Gary Jubelin's 2GB interview - Ben Fordham Live

A TV journalist has launched a complaint with police after Mr Jubelin spoke to Ben yesterday.

omny.fm

 

[johnymac1]

This is the 000 call by FM.
Found on youtube link:



Sent from my SM-J320ZN using Tapatalk

Thanks Metic.

I have a few concerns about the Interaction between operator and caller.

The 000 operator is the one that suggests there could be Unknown car in the area, Op- "is there anyone acting suspicions in the area, any vehicles?". it basically plants the seed for the unknown abductor. The caller reply's "no nothing" during the conversation.

After the initial composure, there is no urgency in the callers voice. At time she seems matter of fact and distant to her son.

The caller doesn't mention when she last seen him, which may be significant. She only talks about the last time she heard him. "I heard him roaring around then nothing" Is it a kind of victim blaming, suggesting he was loud and what ever he was doing ended abruptly. She definitely didn't take the time to see what he was doing.

 

[JWS2019]

Although I’m pretty sure the coroner can only make recommendations to police, it definitely seems the coroner has had an impact on the investigation.

I can’t wait to hear the findings.

IMO (fingers crossed) this will show the importance of a coroner.

 

[JWS2019]

Thanks Metic.

I have a few concerns about the Interaction between operator and caller.

The 000 operator is the one that suggests there could be Unknown car in the area, Op- "is there anyone acting suspicions in the area, any vehicles?". it basically plants the seed for the unknown abductor. The caller reply's "no nothing" during the conversation.

After the initial composure, there is no urgency in the callers voice. At time she seems matter of fact and distant to her son.

The caller doesn't mention when she last seen him, which may be significant. She only talks about the last time she heard him. "I heard him roaring around then nothing" Is it a kind of victim blaming, suggesting he was loud and what ever he was doing ended abruptly. She definitely didn't take the time to see what he was doing.

Great points JM! Seed planted on what should have been seen. Interesting also I think it’s the whole call, IMO I’d be saying, when Is someone arriving, what should we do etc.. obviously easy in hindsight but my version is I need the police ASAP my son is missing and we have looked everywhere with the whole neighbourhood and we can’t find him.
What do we do, who’s coming and when?

 

[Mudman85]

Great points JM! Seed planted on what should have been seen. Interesting also I think it’s the whole call, IMO I’d be saying, when Is someone arriving, what should we do etc.. obviously easy in hindsight but my version is I need the police ASAP my son is missing and we have looked everywhere with the whole neighbourhood and we can’t find him.
What do we do, who’s coming and when?

I made comment about her lack of concern in the call multiple times and every time i have been shut down by posters. Funny now that the FM is back in the frame everyone can hear some issues in the call.

 

[Collie_wobbles]

The Coroner probably caring for the foster daughter in ways that should have been done years ago, given the risk (IMO) of allowing the foster parents care for any foster children since not long after William disappeared.

Oh I totally agree that LT should've been removed after William went missing, especially given we still don't have answers of what happened to William.

Surely an unexplained disappearance of a foster child would be high up on a risk assessment for any other children in the fosters care home.

But it appears money and white collar reputation ruled in this case IMO

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I made comment about her lack of concern in the call multiple times and every time i have been shut down by posters. Funny now that the FM is back in the frame everyone can hear some issues in the call.

Shouldn’t she have been faking concern then, if she was wanting to spread a false story? Lindy Chamberlain was convicted - convicted and jailed - because people said she didn’t show enough emotion. You can’t draw any conclusions from the tone of someone’s voice, maybe trying not to panic, on the phone.

I’m not sure of anything but this isn’t sufficient reason to suspect FM.

 

[sprockets]

If he'd been missing just 5 - 15 minutes she might not have been too concerned yet which may explain why she's wasn't over the top in panic, although she was concerned enough to call the police.

"How long has he been missing?"

"I... well... I think, well, we've been looking for him for about 15 or 20 minutes but... I thought it could be 5, it could be longer..."

However, doesn't initially say how long he's been missing or how long since they last heard him, only how long they've been looking.

...

Operator presses the point slightly, "So he's been missing since about 10.30?"

Yeah I'd say so".

 

[Collie_wobbles]

Although I’m pretty sure the coroner can only make recommendations to police, it definitely seems the coroner has had an impact on the investigation.

I can’t wait to hear the findings.

Further powers of the Coroner include:

authorising a police officer or other person to enter any place and gather evidence, similar to a search warrant

Role of the Coroner

Role of the Coroner in NSW including having the power to call for particular evidence to be gathered and heard; make recommendations to the relevant Minister or government department and refer matters to the Department of Public Prosecutions.

www.coroners.nsw.gov.au

Not sure if the above bolded part would include a covert operation.

 

[BFew]

But it appears money and white collar reputation ruled in this case IMO

Those 2 reasons are not very high up on my list of likely reasons.