Current Disappearance of little William Tyrrell

shellyg

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The police are saying William was removed by a car.

The only cars we know of that are confirmed as leaving Bennaroon Drive the morning William disappeared are Mrs Savage on her way to bingo and the foster father.
 

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DropBearess

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As I posted a while back now, l still think a key question needs to be for the foster mother:-
"Why would you leave an infant unattended on the verandah knowing full well you had seen two strange, old and distinctive cars directly outside an hour or two earlier, when it was very unusual indeed".
I would find this quite irresponsible of a parent, foster or otherwise.
Foster parents should not be exempt from questions like this, any more than natural parents would be asked in similar proceedings. And yes, why is William's little sister still there?
 

GreyCrow

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I'd like to see the circumstances that had those kids removed. DV they say but there's assault police charges against the biological mother, it might have been that which sealed their fate?
Fair chance the Assault Police came about because they assisted in the removal of the children

Police and welfare come to remove kids
Mother goes off
Police charge mother
Mother now classed as unstable
Kids have little chance of being returned because of unstable mother

Vicious cycle of exploit and blame without trying to fix the core problem
 

shellyg

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A well-respected Kendall resident, Ronald Keith Chapman, is convinced he saw William Tyrrell standing in his Spiderman suit in the back of a car being driven at speed on the morning of the boy’s disappearance.
Mr Chapman told the Coroner’s Court this morning that the fair-skinned child was standing unrestrained in the back, with his hands against the glass, and his face peering out.

He said the car was being driven erratically.

Mr Chapman said he did not immediately report the matter to police because he’d heard a local police officer on the news that very night, saying detectives would be knocking on the door of every house in a one kilometre radius. He waited, but nobody came.

A few weeks later, having told his five sisters and many other people, he decided to make a formal report.

He assumed the information had been passed on to detectives investigating the case, but in a stunning development, it seems that it wasn’t until April 2017 when police came to take his recorded statement.

William went missing in September 2014.


 

shellyg

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The Kendal resident again, highly credible imo. And it's shocking.

Speaking calmly and directly, Mr Chapman told the Coroner’s Court that he was particularly alert to movement in his street, which is less than a kilometre from where William was staying on the morning of his disappearance because he’s a flower judge and pot plant aficionado, and he was expecting a delivery of delicate plants from Garden Express that day.

It was a Friday and he wanted to make sure they didn’t get stuck in the post office over the weekend.

He heard what he thought was the lid of the mail box at around 10:45am, and went outside to see if his package had arrived.

He stepped onto the verandah, and he had his hand on the handrail at the top of the stairs when he saw a car coming and “what made me look was, the car was being driven around the corner at speed.

“There was an eight foot drain in front to the house, and I heard gravel running … she was almost in the drain,” he said.

“It was a woman,” he said, of the driver. “She was almost off the tar.

“In the back seat was a young boy with his hands up on the window … his face was sort of in between.”

Asked about age, he said: “I would say three or four. He was standing. He wasn’t crying.

“He was wearing a Spiderman suit.

“It was an old box-type 4WD. I couldn’t tell you what the make was. Fawn colour. Beige is a bit light. (The driver) was a woman in her late 20s to late 30s, blonde hair, very fair complexion, she wore a white, short-sleeved blouse.”

Asked by the counsel assisting: “You could see his hands, and his face?”

“Clearly,” he said.

He also said he was sure the boy was wearing a Spiderman suit, because of the red top, the blue sleeves, and the black pattern. A boy who lived next door had one just like it.

“He was looking out the window, and he wasn’t restrained, he didn’t have a seat belt on,” Mr Chapman said.

“I did utter profanity under my breath for the woman being stupid for not having the kid restrained.

“(She) almost lost control as she come around the corner, at a wide angle.”

He said the boy had “light blondey-browney colour” and “he was fair.”

A few moments later, a second car “come around and cut the corner. It was virtually two wheels on the grass.” He was on the wrong side of the road, “he would have had a head on” had another car been coming.

 

shellyg

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Description of the woman.

“It was an old box-type 4WD. I couldn’t tell you what the make was. Fawn colour. Beige is a bit light. (The driver) was a woman in her late 20s to late 30s, blonde hair, very fair complexion, she wore a white, short-sleeved blouse.”
 

shellyg

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One car a witness says he saw William in that hit the gravel going wide around the corner where it was almost in the drain and the car following on the grass.

An epic screw up in lost opportunity, the police could have got their tyre impressions. CCTV!
 

shellyg

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^It does sound credible but I wonder why he didn't report it earlier, considering he must have known a 3yo kid in a Spiderman suit was missing, possibly abducted. I wouldn't be waiting for the police to come knocking. That's quite a blunder, if it happened.
This is from Wiki. I'm paywalled out of the links provided so I can't check it but it seems from this that there might have been TWO sightings of the 4WD, so the first sighting would lend more weight to the second sighting particularly given the witness today told around five people what he saw while he was waiting for the police to knock on his door and if we assume he didn't know about the first sighting approximately fifteen minutes beforehand.

The police have said they didn't release the cars information for tactical reasons.

The police later began investigations into finding the drivers of two cars that were seen parked on the dead end road on the morning Tyrrell disappeared. The cars, described as a white station wagon and an older-style grey sedan, were parked between two driveways of the acre lot of land. They were seen with their driver's side windows down and were unknown in the neighborhood where locals are friends.[1][13] These cars were noticed by Tyrrell's mother and they have not been seen again since the time he disappeared. The police regard these particular vehicles with suspicion, as there seemed to be no logical reason why they would be parked on the street before William's disappearance.[14] Reportedly, at 9 am, a green or grey sedan car drove past the Tyrrell home while William and his sister were riding bikes in the driveway. The car drove into the no through road, did a U turn in the neighbour's driveway and drove out of the street. Secondly, another 4WD was sighted driving out of Benaroon Drive at about 10:30 am, about the time he disappeared. The same vehicle was later seen speeding down another Kendall street. The police said that they have known about these cars since the investigation started. However, as part of investigative strategy, the information about these vehicles was not released to the public until 12 months after Tyrrell disappeared.[10]

 

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sprockets

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I really don't want to throw a negative spin on the investigation, but it looks really bad.
I dunno what the cops could have done with so many potential suspects and so much unreliable evidence. What they really needed was video evidence of a car in the area or something similar to confirm some things.

According to the article below Mr Chapman lived 1.6km from Benaroon Drive so why he'd think police would come knocking is a mystery to me. IMO the Inquiry will find William was abducted by person or persons unknown. As I said elsewhere, what a mess.

"A resident on NSW’s mid-north coast has told an inquest he saw a boy dressed in a Spider-Man suit, which he believes was William Tyrrell, being driven away in the back of a car the day he went missing.

Ronald Chapman, who lived in Laurel St, Kendall, about 1.6km from Benaroon Drive, where William was staying, told the NSW Coroners Court today he was certain the child he saw was the missing toddler.
“I’m 100 per cent sure it was William in the back of the car,” Mr Chapman said at the inquest in Taree, according to The Daily Telegraph. ..."

 

BlueE

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Description of the woman.

“It was an old box-type 4WD. I couldn’t tell you what the make was. Fawn colour. Beige is a bit light. (The driver) was a woman in her late 20s to late 30s, blonde hair, very fair complexion, she wore a white, short-sleeved blouse.”
He told he court it was an “old box type four wheel drive” being driven by a woman “in her late 20s to late 30s, very fair complexion... blonde hair combed up with a bow on top of her head”

He now thinks the car was an old Toyota. Blond hair combed up with a bow on top of her head ... that's pretty specific and curious why they haven't found anyone matching her description. Curious if he's been asked if he recognises anyone in court matching the description?

Or what car the foster grandfather used to own?

736441



Mr Chapman told the court the second car was a blue sedan with “heavily tinted windows” being driven by a man.

Counsel assisting Gerard Craddock SC just told the court the inquest will be suspended now and resume in March 2020... taking a six month break between hearings.

The coroner told the court she understood it “will be frustrating for some” but there are “reasons for it”. It will resume in Taree on March 9, 2020. :oops:
 

shellyg

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Who hears about a kid going missing in your local area, then sees what you think is the kid (in a distinctive outfit) and doesn't report it to Police?

I can't fathom that at all.
He's getting heaps of flak over it on social media. Wait see I guess how much weight the coroner gives his evidence.

The coroner might have dragged something new out and the police need more time to check it out. Another six months should do it. :huh:
 

shellyg

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Who hears about a kid going missing in your local area, then sees what you think is the kid (in a distinctive outfit) and doesn't report it to Police?

I can't fathom that at all.
The police confirmed in court they believe Mr Chapman apparently. "Respected man, credible witness, police don't believe he was making it up."

From the 'Where's William' pod.
 

BlueE

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The police confirmed in court they believe Mr Chapman apparently. "Respected man, credible witness, police don't believe he was making it up."

From the 'Where's William' pod.
It's fair enough to ask the question why he didn't report it straight away. However he told his 5 sisters and presumable the person staying with him at the time. I found it interesting that he wondered if it was real because it was such a surreal scene with a clearly described woman burning around the corner followed closely by a man in another car at speed. Looks like his street is a shortcut south out of Kendell without going through the main street.

While I believe his description of the scene and cars because he wasn't influenced by any press on what anyone looked like, I also wonder if the time wasn't 9.45 am? He may have second guessed himself whether it could have been William because all of the press was that he disappeared at 10.30 am and said 10.45 am

The photo was said to be taken just before he disappeared at 10.30 am, however the ABC podcast says police confirm it was taken at 9.37 am. I believe he's looking up at someone trying to impress them with his roar, so foster Dad could still have been there. Foster Mum taking the photo low in front and foster gran sitting beside him with her feet in slippers able to be seen. 9.45 am would match if William went missing straight after the photo was taken.

There is a possible scenario that if the fosters were involved somehow William was taken immediately after the photo taken with a female in old box shape Toyoto land cruiser (former foster grandpa's old car?) followed by male and they handed William to someone in Laurieton. Foster mother drives directly home and foster father makes his phone call in Laurieton. He was acting strangely when he arrived back at the house racing straight off up the road then being found in the bathroom around 10 minutes later.

Foster mother is cool and clam when she made the emergency call. Doesn't answer the direct question "How long has he been missing?". Instead answers how long they'v been looking for him. Also is able to describe minute details about Williams freckle under his hair part but says "No" five times when asked directly if there were any suspicious cars around.

 

shellyg

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Doesn't answer the direct question "How long has he been missing?". Instead answers how long they'v been looking for him. Also is able to describe minute details about Williams freckle under his hair part but says "No" five times when asked directly if there were any suspicious cars around.
Only thing that stuck out for me in the 000 call was when the operator asked 'what shoes was he wearing?' foster mother paused too long ... then 'distinguishing features' the foster mother totally ignored the question of shoes and went on about the freckle which can't even be seen unless you're looking under his hair.

Was he wearing shoes? In his last pic at around 9.40am he wasn't wearing any. How far can a kid get on a bushy block with no shoes on?
 

BlueE

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Only thing that stuck out for me in the 000 call was when the operator asked 'what shoes was he wearing?' foster mother paused too long ... then 'distinguishing features' the foster mother totally ignored the question of shoes and went on about the freckle which can't even be seen unless you're looking under his hair.

Was he wearing shoes? In his last pic at around 9.40am he wasn't wearing any. How far can a kid get on a bushy block with no shoes on?
Good point. Saying he had bare feet would have knocked the he wandered off into the bush narrative on the head very quickly and they could have concentrated on him being picked up by a car immediately!

I thought the emergency operator was very good with the questions she asked. Makes a great first interview.

It also struck me how cool and calm the foster mother was. The freckle story was bizarre.
 

shellyg

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Saying he had bare feet would have knocked the he wandered off into the bush narrative on the head very quickly and they could have concentrated on him being picked up by a car immediately!
I can't see their shoes near the back door, his sister looks to be barefoot as well.

May be why she paused, processing whether he had shoes on or not.
 

shellyg

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Caroline Overington is on top of this I think. And unimpressed with Donohoe being a key person of interest.
18 August, 2019.

More delays today, I'm afraid. Just woeful. This is from the weekend:
We are into the third week of the Tyrrell inquest and what can be said? Only that it surely must get better from here. Because so far, so dispiriting.
This is an inquiry into “the disappearance and likely death” of a three-year-old boy, William Tyrrell, last seen gambolling on a bush block in the NSW mid-north coast town of Kendall, dressed in a tiny, two-piece Spider-Man suit.
William was a foster child. As a judge of the NSW Supreme Court — and the appeals court, in NSW — has already made abundantly clear, William’s disappearance is a matter of legitimate and pressing public interest. Children do not simply evaporate. We must find out what happened to him.
And so to the coronial inquiry, the purpose of which is to examine all aspects of the case. It opened back in March, sat for a week, then closed until this month, for reasons heretofore unexplained. It opened again last week, then closed for a bit, and now you can see the pattern: having opened for a few hours on Tuesday, the court closed for much of Wednesday, then opened not at all on Thursday, and for barely two hours on Friday, and on we go, or don’t.
Does this seem disrespectful to you? To have William’s loved ones — his parents, his foster parents, their support people and other relatives — travelling some distance every day to attend the new courthouse, only to leave them sitting outside for hours on end, awaiting illumination? Some sense of what police did, or didn’t do, to find William? They’ve waited nearly five years already.
There are, of course, circumstances under which a court must be closed — when an undercover cop is giving evidence, for example, or when police are laying out the details of a planned sting — but why this court cannot be closed for, say, two or three or five or however many consecutive days, and then kept open, so the public hearings can get under way has not been explained.
As for the evidence presented to date, well, it’s fair to say that the extensive — some might say excessive — suppression orders very often mean a fog sits over proceedings.
Last Tuesday, for example, a woman named Sharon Starr was sworn in. She was the manager of the Caltex service station at Lakewood when William went missing on September 12, 2014.
Lakewood is about 10 minutes’ drive from Kendall.
The gallery sat forward. What had she seen? Well, as far as we can tell, nothing.
But she employed a man called Robert Donohoe, whom she described as creepy. Under questioning from the counsel assisting, Gerard Craddock SC, she said Donohoe used to bring a scented candle to work, and it’s a service station, so that’s not safe. He also used to bring a star stamp, to put stamps on the hands of good children, and she told him not to do that because people don’t like it.
He also once brought some chickens in the back of his van, hoping to sell the eggs. She didn’t mind, she said, because he didn’t bring them inside, so that was fine, but no, he couldn’t sell the eggs. All very good, but what was the point?
To paint Donohoe as the local weirdo? As some kind of creepy dude who might have had something to do with something? Soon enough it was revealed — not by Starr’s evidence, mind, but by that of his brother — that Donohoe has served prison time for sexual assault.
He was accused, back in 2011, of asking disabled people who volunteered at the Taree SES to perform sex acts on him, and vice versa. Now, Donohoe finished Year 12, and he has worked on and off at menial jobs through the years, but he’s not hugely bright — he told the court yesterday that he had a “cognitive impairment” — and he told police at his initial interview that he didn’t know that what he’d done was wrong.
Asked by police when he was arrested: “Do you understand what you are being charged with?”
He replied: “No, not really.”
He was told: “The boys did not give you permission to do sexual acts to them … you are not allowed to take advantage of intellectually impaired people and have sex with them.”
He replied: “How was I supposed to know that? I didn’t know there as a law against that.”
The “boys” were all aged over 18, but they were described in court as having the mental functioning of children aged between six and nine. Donohoe was found guilty of five of the 13 initial charges and sentenced to five months in prison.
The point, then, would appear to be that he’s one of the local sex pests police rounded up, to press about William.
Starr told the court that Donohoe sometimes slept in his van, near the showgrounds at Kendall, rather than drive home to Taree between shifts. So, was he working that night, before William disappeared?
Starr said she thought so but couldn’t be 100 per cent certain. Yes, she had gone looking for records, but couldn’t find them. But, she added, Caltex head office would have them. Also, Caltex is owned by Woolworths, so they’d probably have them, too.
The coroner, Harriet Grahame, seemed a bit perplexed by this: Caltex would have them? Why didn’t her court have them? Nobody seemed to know.
In any case, putting aside evidence about the scented candles and the cargo of hens - which Craddock brought to court, by the way - was Starr able to offer any evidence to link Donohoe and his vehicle to William’s disappearance?
We don’t know. They didn’t say. They still might. But not yet.
We do know that Craddock has warned the media against naming and shaming people who are called to appear at the inquest.
Donohoe has not previously been named as a person of interest in the case, but many others have. This normally happens, as Craddock surely knows, only when police want it to happen. Journalists do not by osmosis discover who police are chasing. They get tipped off, by police.
This happens because police want the publicity. It puts pressure on their suspects. It’s not much fun if a person is innocent, but it’s a very old strategy. The idea works like this: bring someone in and invite the media to rush around them. Then let them go and watch what they do. Maybe they’ll be silly enough to go back to the grave and make sure it’s not been uncovered by animals. Maybe they’ll come under pressure from their wives or girlfriends saying things like: what have you done?
It also allows police to send undercover operatives in, to befriend the pedophiles, and say things like: hey, those things they said about you in the media, are they true? And maybe get a confession. How much of this went on, we don’t yet know.
We do know that the court is grappling with an enormous brief, said to number 2000 pages. To date the former lead detective, Gary Jubelin, has been sitting in the public gallery, unable to walk anyone through it, because he has been removed from the case and charged with making illegal recordings.
That may yet change. In the meantime, what a shemozzle.
What’s definitely changing is the venue. The inquest will move next week from Lidcombe to the mid-north coast town of Taree. The media has been warned: the courtroom is small and you may not be able to get a seat. To compensate, they’ll open a room in Lidcombe — 400km away — and run a feed. That doesn’t look much like open justice either.
In the meantime, it looks for all the world like the inquest is heading towards this conclusion: it’s not the foster parents. It’s not the birth parents, so we are busy poking the usual suspects: local pedophiles and sex pests, but do any of them know anything about what happened to William?
We don’t know. So far, so dispiriting.
 

BlueE

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I can't see their shoes near the back door, his sister looks to be barefoot as well.

May be why she paused, processing whether he had shoes on or not.
"Did he have any shoes on, or any other distinguishing features?"

"Um, um, um um, ... " then deflects from whether he had shoes on with extraordinary detail on a freckle on his head when it's parted on the left hand side. Doesn't answer if he has shoes on.

3 year old's need help to put socks and shoes on so you'd think this would stick in your memory and would be important in trying to figure out if he went into bush or not.

Unless you're trying to remember if the picture with his shoes off was supposed to be taken just before he disappeared or not, so don't answer that?
 
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BlueE

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Caroline Overington is on top of this I think. And unimpressed with Donohoe being a key person of interest.
18 August, 2019.

More delays today, I'm afraid. Just woeful. This is from the weekend:
We are into the third week of the Tyrrell inquest and what can be said? Only that it surely must get better from here. Because so far, so dispiriting.
This is an inquiry into “the disappearance and likely death” of a three-year-old boy, William Tyrrell, last seen gambolling on a bush block in the NSW mid-north coast town of Kendall, dressed in a tiny, two-piece Spider-Man suit.
William was a foster child. As a judge of the NSW Supreme Court — and the appeals court, in NSW — has already made abundantly clear, William’s disappearance is a matter of legitimate and pressing public interest. Children do not simply evaporate. We must find out what happened to him.
And so to the coronial inquiry, the purpose of which is to examine all aspects of the case. It opened back in March, sat for a week, then closed until this month, for reasons heretofore unexplained. It opened again last week, then closed for a bit, and now you can see the pattern: having opened for a few hours on Tuesday, the court closed for much of Wednesday, then opened not at all on Thursday, and for barely two hours on Friday, and on we go, or don’t.
Does this seem disrespectful to you? To have William’s loved ones — his parents, his foster parents, their support people and other relatives — travelling some distance every day to attend the new courthouse, only to leave them sitting outside for hours on end, awaiting illumination? Some sense of what police did, or didn’t do, to find William? They’ve waited nearly five years already.
There are, of course, circumstances under which a court must be closed — when an undercover cop is giving evidence, for example, or when police are laying out the details of a planned sting — but why this court cannot be closed for, say, two or three or five or however many consecutive days, and then kept open, so the public hearings can get under way has not been explained.
As for the evidence presented to date, well, it’s fair to say that the extensive — some might say excessive — suppression orders very often mean a fog sits over proceedings.
Last Tuesday, for example, a woman named Sharon Starr was sworn in. She was the manager of the Caltex service station at Lakewood when William went missing on September 12, 2014.
Lakewood is about 10 minutes’ drive from Kendall.
The gallery sat forward. What had she seen? Well, as far as we can tell, nothing.
But she employed a man called Robert Donohoe, whom she described as creepy. Under questioning from the counsel assisting, Gerard Craddock SC, she said Donohoe used to bring a scented candle to work, and it’s a service station, so that’s not safe. He also used to bring a star stamp, to put stamps on the hands of good children, and she told him not to do that because people don’t like it.
He also once brought some chickens in the back of his van, hoping to sell the eggs. She didn’t mind, she said, because he didn’t bring them inside, so that was fine, but no, he couldn’t sell the eggs. All very good, but what was the point?
To paint Donohoe as the local weirdo? As some kind of creepy dude who might have had something to do with something? Soon enough it was revealed — not by Starr’s evidence, mind, but by that of his brother — that Donohoe has served prison time for sexual assault.
He was accused, back in 2011, of asking disabled people who volunteered at the Taree SES to perform sex acts on him, and vice versa. Now, Donohoe finished Year 12, and he has worked on and off at menial jobs through the years, but he’s not hugely bright — he told the court yesterday that he had a “cognitive impairment” — and he told police at his initial interview that he didn’t know that what he’d done was wrong.
Asked by police when he was arrested: “Do you understand what you are being charged with?”
He replied: “No, not really.”
He was told: “The boys did not give you permission to do sexual acts to them … you are not allowed to take advantage of intellectually impaired people and have sex with them.”
He replied: “How was I supposed to know that? I didn’t know there as a law against that.”
The “boys” were all aged over 18, but they were described in court as having the mental functioning of children aged between six and nine. Donohoe was found guilty of five of the 13 initial charges and sentenced to five months in prison.
The point, then, would appear to be that he’s one of the local sex pests police rounded up, to press about William.
Starr told the court that Donohoe sometimes slept in his van, near the showgrounds at Kendall, rather than drive home to Taree between shifts. So, was he working that night, before William disappeared?
Starr said she thought so but couldn’t be 100 per cent certain. Yes, she had gone looking for records, but couldn’t find them. But, she added, Caltex head office would have them. Also, Caltex is owned by Woolworths, so they’d probably have them, too.
The coroner, Harriet Grahame, seemed a bit perplexed by this: Caltex would have them? Why didn’t her court have them? Nobody seemed to know.
In any case, putting aside evidence about the scented candles and the cargo of hens - which Craddock brought to court, by the way - was Starr able to offer any evidence to link Donohoe and his vehicle to William’s disappearance?
We don’t know. They didn’t say. They still might. But not yet.
We do know that Craddock has warned the media against naming and shaming people who are called to appear at the inquest.
Donohoe has not previously been named as a person of interest in the case, but many others have. This normally happens, as Craddock surely knows, only when police want it to happen. Journalists do not by osmosis discover who police are chasing. They get tipped off, by police.
This happens because police want the publicity. It puts pressure on their suspects. It’s not much fun if a person is innocent, but it’s a very old strategy. The idea works like this: bring someone in and invite the media to rush around them. Then let them go and watch what they do. Maybe they’ll be silly enough to go back to the grave and make sure it’s not been uncovered by animals. Maybe they’ll come under pressure from their wives or girlfriends saying things like: what have you done?
It also allows police to send undercover operatives in, to befriend the pedophiles, and say things like: hey, those things they said about you in the media, are they true? And maybe get a confession. How much of this went on, we don’t yet know.
We do know that the court is grappling with an enormous brief, said to number 2000 pages. To date the former lead detective, Gary Jubelin, has been sitting in the public gallery, unable to walk anyone through it, because he has been removed from the case and charged with making illegal recordings.
That may yet change. In the meantime, what a shemozzle.
What’s definitely changing is the venue. The inquest will move next week from Lidcombe to the mid-north coast town of Taree. The media has been warned: the courtroom is small and you may not be able to get a seat. To compensate, they’ll open a room in Lidcombe — 400km away — and run a feed. That doesn’t look much like open justice either.
In the meantime, it looks for all the world like the inquest is heading towards this conclusion: it’s not the foster parents. It’s not the birth parents, so we are busy poking the usual suspects: local pedophiles and sex pests, but do any of them know anything about what happened to William?
We don’t know. So far, so dispiriting.
This opinion gives a valid snapshot of proceedings up to 18th August.

What has she said after the testimony of the witness seeing a boy in a spiderman suit in a box type 4 WD driven by a woman and followed closely by a man?

Or has she given any opinions why the Inquiry was adjourned until March next year?

I haven't listened to the podcasts for a while, is there anything interesting in current podcasts?
 

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