Do not trade Boydy

[Dog 36]

Guys get with the program

He can’t kick to a target on a consistent level, he doesn’t have the damaging skills of a Kerr, Mitchell or Ablett .He is just a good player in a midfield that needs his strong attributes which is a tough hard at it player.



The fact is we can’t have West, Cross, Boyd in the same midfield group as they are to similar footballers

Which one would you trade if you had to?

SPOT ON.

The quicker we play 1 of these 3 in the midfield and get Cooney, Griffen and Higgins developed into been able to gut run and put the required effort in the better will be. These three should form the main stays of our midfield, the balance should compliment them.

West Cross and Boyd are to similar, one paced and lack kicking penetration and ability to kick to position. I dont question their effort and preparation but I question what value I put on these attributes.

 

[TedDougChris]

Whilst I agree with sentiments that Boyd shouldn't be traded due to his high work ethic and improvement I don't believe that he is 'untradable'

To be honest what you see now is as good as it gets (i.e. IMO he won't get much better) and his trade currency will never be higher (like the ideal time to trade Ray would have been after last years final - that said hindsight is a wonderful thing and there would have been many complaints if that happened) .... all depends on what we could get for him

He has had a good year and go very close to winning the B&F which is great for him...but lets be honest - is an indicment on the rest of the playing list!

I think you've underestimated his work ethic and improvement this year.

Let me pose a different question for you. What happens if West or Cross get a serious injury and miss the entire season (or major part thereof)...

Who steps in... ?

Ray, Gia, Power ?? They are almost afraid of the ball.
Hahn - would be great, but injury ravaged of late.
Cooney, Griffen, Higgens - great talents, relatively untested in the middle, do they have the engine ?

I understand the concerns that we have too many of the same type of player, but in and under, hard ball get type players isn't the area we should be looking to reduce....

 

[dogupya]

And you've included Hargrave.

He is a medium defender, he always punches above his weight and will be a better defender when he plays on poeple his own size. He can swing forward as well and he has a very good kick on him. Rarely does he make bad decisions when he has the ball.

What don't you get??

 

[Butane]

Hargrave has had a good year. I put him in the McMahon, Guido, Power group that have stuttered and fumbled nearly 100 games or just over. But unlike these other guys i think Hargrave can get better, and he has showed it in the odd game this year. Be great to have the option of moving him up the wing or forward line now and then.

 

[SOTW 73]

I think you've underestimated his work ethic and improvement this year.

Let me pose a different question for you. What happens if West or Cross get a serious injury and miss the entire season (or major part thereof)...

Who steps in... ?

Ray, Gia, Power ?? They are almost afraid of the ball.
Hahn - would be great, but injury ravaged of late.
Cooney, Griffen, Higgens - great talents, relatively untested in the middle, do they have the engine ?

I understand the concerns that we have too many of the same type of player, but in and under, hard ball get type players isn't the area we should be looking to reduce....

If we are going to do anything in the next few years - these guys have to be the core of our midfield. Cooney and Griffen have that explosiveness and Higgins great goal sense - which Boyd lacks (pace, penetration in his kicking and goal sense)...again I am projecting forward, certaintly not based on this year!

 

[beaser]

You get nothing for nothing in trade week and if we off load crap that is what we will get in return.
I would hate to see Boydy go, as a matter of fact ill be sorry to see most players go.

 

[TedDougChris]

He is a medium defender, he always punches above his weight and will be a better defender when he plays on poeple his own size. He can swing forward as well and he has a very good kick on him. Rarely does he make bad decisions when he has the ball.

What don't you get??

Hargrave is a good, ordinary player.

Not tall enough to be a KPP, not good enough to be a key forward. I just don't understand why you are listing him as untradeable.

Dont get me wrong, I like him. I just dont understand why he is untradeable, but one of our only in and under players isnt....

 

[fred cook]

SPOT ON.
West Cross and Boyd are to similar, one paced and lack kicking penetration and ability to kick to position. I dont question their effort and preparation but I question what value I put on these attributes.

Finally somebody has a clue

Boyd is worth something now he will be worth nothing in a couple of years.

Im not 100% about it but I would trade Gillbee if something decent was given to us in return

 

[Benno From Berwick]

Finally somebody has a clue

Boyd is worth something now he will be worth nothing in a couple of years.

Im not 100% about it but I would trade Gillbee if something decent was given to us in return

Gilbee? If the West Coast Eagles offered Judd, Kerr or Cox.....

 

[Pigdog]

Finally somebody has a clue

Boyd is worth something now he will be worth nothing in a couple of years.

Im not 100% about it but I would trade Gillbee if something decent was given to us in return

That's a massive contradiction.

You agree that we must trade one of Boyd, Cross and West as they can't kick. Fair enough....

But, you then say you want to trade Gilbee who I believe is the best kick in the competition...Please explain.

 

[dogupya]

Hargrave is a good, ordinary player.

Not tall enough to be a KPP, not good enough to be a key forward. I just don't understand why you are listing him as untradeable.

Dont get me wrong, I like him. I just dont understand why he is untradeable, but one of our only in and under players isnt....

It's about balance TDC. Hargrave isn't KPP, but he is versatile and can do various jobs. His hardness has improved and that has been evident this year. his almost half asleep demeaner is slowly going and he seems sharply more aware when he has the ball. Every good side has a defender who they can throw on a wing or a half forward line to mix it up, all you have to do is look at Adam Hunter.

good defenders are hard to come by and he is turning into one, I wouldn't be trading that right now. It's not his fault that our playing list is so unbalanced that he has to constantly stand next to players like reiwolt.


Matt Boyd. Here is a guy that is hard working no doubt, he would have to be the hardest working player on our list next to West and Cross. He has become a very good ball getter over recent times, the concern I have is his disposal.

He is becoming our new clanger king and that has ne concerned. If, as a tagger you put your hand up for a more productive role in the midfield and get your hands on it 28 times, you need to be putting the ball in attacking positions for us, he doesn't do that, he turns the ball over a lot, he still fumbles quite a bit and cannot kick over a blade of grass. It's no good getting it 30 times if the ball isn't getting used.

Hopefully he starts to work on his decision making and disposal efficiancy as hard as he works on his endurance.

 

[TedDougChris]

It's about balance TDC. Hargrave isn't KPP, but he is versatile and can do various jobs. His hardness has improved and that has been evident this year. his almost half asleep demeaner is slowly going and he seems sharply more aware when he has the ball. Every good side has a defender who they can throw on a wing or a half forward line to mix it up, all you have to do is look at Adam Hunter.

good defenders are hard to come by and he is turning into one, I wouldn't be trading that right now. It's not his fault that our playing list is so unbalanced that he has to constantly stand next to players like reiwolt.


Matt Boyd. Here is a guy that is hard working no doubt, he would have to be the hardest working player on our list next to West and Cross. He has become a very good ball getter over recent times, the concern I have is his disposal.

He is becoming our new clanger king and that has ne concerned. If, as a tagger you put your hand up for a more productive role in the midfield and get your hands on it 28 times, you need to be putting the ball in attacking positions for us, he doesn't do that, he turns the ball over a lot, he still fumbles quite a bit and cannot kick over a blade of grass. It's no good getting it 30 times if the ball isn't getting used.

Hopefully he starts to work on his decision making and disposal efficiancy as hard as he works on his endurance.

All fair comments mate, I have the same concerns about our midfield being too one-dimensional. I'd love to see a Hahn or Griffen in there, I just don't know if they have it yet... Boyd does, even if he has weaknesses.

I see a lot of young, developing tall players coming through, and my personal view is that either Everitt or Williams could take over from Hargrave tomorrow... (or very shortly)....

 

[always right]

With all due respect guys I think most have missed the point of my thread. To me it's not a question of whether Boyd will get any better, or whether he is our best midfielder, or what weaknesses he has.

To me it's about what sort of statement the club wants to make to its playing group. What sort of character traits do they want our players to possess or develop? Boydy, along with his mate Crossy represents the traits we need in our team.....determination, pride, passion, desire to improve, work ethic, and most importantly a "will to win" with the concept of losing absolutely unacceptable. Leave aside what he brings to the side in talent, the total package he represents is the critical part.

Now if we can get a KPP player who posesses similar character traits, then trading Boydy would be an option but we should never consider trading him for a more talented player who has the character traits of say...Adam Cooney. I think Cooney is a great talent but I really wonder how far he is going to go with his weak mental application. Imagine him with Boydy's attitude......unbeatable.

This is not to say that we should get rid of all of our talented players and only keep those who have Boydy's character. That would be a short term disaster...but I think the club needs to decide who our standard bearers will be over the next few years when neither Johnno, Grant or West will be around.

 

[Dog 36]

With all due respect guys I think most have missed the point of my thread. To me it's not a question of whether Boyd will get any better, or whether he is our best midfielder, or what weaknesses he has.

To me it's about what sort of statement the club wants to make to its playing group. What sort of character traits do they want our players to possess or develop? Boydy, along with his mate Crossy represents the traits we need in our team.....determination, pride, passion, desire to improve, work ethic, and most importantly a "will to win" with the concept of losing absolutely unacceptable. Leave aside what he brings to the side in talent, the total package he represents is the critical part.

Now if we can get a KPP player who posesses similar character traits, then trading Boydy would be an option but we should never consider trading him for a more talented player who has the character traits of say...Adam Cooney. I think Cooney is a great talent but I really wonder how far he is going to go with his weak mental application. Imagine him with Boydy's attitude......unbeatable.

This is not to say that we should get rid of all of our talented players and only keep those who have Boydy's character. That would be a short term disaster...but I think the club needs to decide who our standard bearers will be over the next few years when neither Johnno, Grant or West will be around.

What makes everyone think Cooney has a problem with weak mental application? Is there something I am missing?

Form slump does not mean he is weak mentally.

He is 21year old he will be a gun midfielder.

 

[always right]

What makes everyone think Cooney has a problem with weak mental application? Is there something I am missing?

Form slump does not mean he is weak mentally.

He is 21year old he will be a gun midfielder.

The day I see him work his arse off to beat a hard tag...I'll take back my criticism. He drops his head too qucikly for my liking and seems to almost accept his fate. The guy has the accelration of Chris Judd but needs the work ethic of Robert Harvey.

 

[Dog 36]

The day I see him work his arse off to beat a hard tag...I'll take back my criticism. He drops his head too qucikly for my liking and seems to almost accept his fate. The guy has the accelration of Chris Judd but needs the work ethic of Robert Harvey.

I think he works hard and with time he will work smarter to beat tags. Beating a tag is not only going to result from your effort but from the coaches instructing you where and when to run, teamates giving your tagger a difficult time.
There are times he has been tagged and blown his tagger away not because of his work rate but a multiple of factors. And when Cooney is getting tagged the other midfielders should be stepping up and becoming the game breakers.

 

[always right]

I think he works hard and with time he will work smarter to beat tags. Beating a tag is not only going to result from your effort but from the coaches instructing you where and when to run, teamates giving your tagger a difficult time.
There are times he has been tagged and blown his tagger away not because of his work rate but a multiple of factors. And when Cooney is getting tagged the other midfielders should be stepping up and becoming the game breakers.

All good points....he just seems to be an introvert on the field. Opposition players know they can intimidate him. Would be nice to have a Josh Carr running alongside him as a teammate....as much as I can't stand the little prick.

 

[boydsno1]

boyd won't leave. he will most likely get our b&F. geez when westy and cross were missing boydy was carrying the midfield on his own and mind you he did make a fair few clearances with no help. his hard at the ball something were crying out for. he will stay. stupid to let him go. players like gia,mcmahon and ray have good value so id be looking to trade them ahead of boydy.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Is it the done thing to trade away the 2007 Charles Sutton Medal winner?

 

[Pigdog]

Is it the done thing to trade away the 2007 Charles Sutton Medal winner?

If it improves our chances of being successful next year then perhaps it does.

We really have to explore all options in our strive to become a successful team, something we aren't at present.

It would be great to keep our current list together, but realistically they are probably not going to lead us to a premiership. In saying that I believe many on the list are capable of this, it's just that we have to make some sacrifices to the betterment of the team. Not an easy job though.

 

[Sedat!]

Finally somebody has a clue

Boyd is worth something now he will be worth nothing in a couple of years.

Im not 100% about it but I would trade Gillbee if something decent was given to us in return

You were going alright until right about here fred.

Gilbee's foot skills are well accespted as top shelf in the competition, but he is also one of the best spoilers in the competition. He is untouchable if it was up to me.

 

[Gooka]

I'd trade Boyd at the drop of a hat if we could get a player better than him that fills a hole for us.

He's a good player, but far from one-of-a-kind in the competition, and in each draft, each year for that matter.

 

[FrediKanoute]

Cooney has been on our list since 03. He has had enough time to prove why he was taken number 1. far too inconsistent, mentally weak and not willing to go above his natural abilty and strive to work.

Everitt, he is a kid and I reserve my judgement.

Higgins is surplus (small running type) and if we get what we are desperately lacking at his expense, so be it.

Disagree with Cooney and Higgins assessments. Cooney played for 3 of his 4 seasons in a crap team and stilll shone. He has battled OP for the last 2 seasons and would still rank in the top 10 players (probably top 8). I disagree he is mentally weak, I think he has been underdone in terms of preparation.

In respect of Higgins, the one thing our other midfieldrs don't give us is the ability to kick goals. Higgins is the rare combination of midfielder forward who has a hurt factor. He missed most of his first eason through injury and this year was effectively his first real season - did very well IMO. Trade Higgo at our peril I say.

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

Boyd has improved significantly this season; one of the few shining lights. If he touches up on his disposal, Boyd will be an elite player of the competition. He's exactly the type of player you don't trade, particuarly in a side with a ridiculous amount of soft, outside runners who can't handle OR apply defensive pressure.

Boyd proved he can shut down players (Kerr had 13 disposals?) and also win plenty of his own hard ball.

He's very important to us now, but imagine in three seasons time. West will be retired, Hahn will be close to retiring and is hardly reliable anyway - he's constantly injured. Trade Boyd, and we're left with Cross to soldier it by himself.

Boyd, Cross, Cooney, Griffen & Higgins should never be traded. They're our midfield for the next 6+ years.

 

[FrediKanoute]

That's a massive contradiction.

You agree that we must trade one of Boyd, Cross and West as they can't kick. Fair enough....

But, you then say you want to trade Gilbee who I believe is the best kick in the competition...Please explain.

I can....Gilbee is a fantastic player. Awesome kick, great running half back with good defensive skills, but I query how much better he will get and whether we have the players capable of playing that running half back role. At the start of the year I would have said trading/losing him through injury was something we should be able to cover....McMahon, Griffin, Boyd, Ray etc all should be able to fill that role.....now I'm not so certain. That said though, I think that Gilbee has a lot of currency now, but will he continue to improve or will he be overtaken? If we could get a good young ruckman and a good forward for Gilbee I'd consider the trade.