Do you think Carr will come to Dockerland now?

[pav_is_god]

From someone not at any of the clubs this seems a fair proposal.

Carr is exactely what Freo needs and you should do everything possible to see it eventuate.

I'm pretty sure Freo will explore all reasonable avenues to get J. Carr.

 

[Ripper]

The reason the bell trade went so well is because we had a good preseason pick, and thus had bargaining power.

We gave up heaps to get Bell back as Pagan had us bent over. Sinclair, Clement , Holland and the number 6 pick. If you reckon that trade went well I'd hate to see a trade that went bad.

 

[voodoo_86]

Sinclair and Holland wouldn't get a game for us I reckon (taking their form back then when they were traded)

North picked up Smith with pick 6 didnt they? And we ended up getting him anyway


And Bell is better than Clement.

Well worth it.

 

[BB gun]

We gave up heaps to get Bell back as Pagan had us bent over. Sinclair, Clement , Holland and the number 6 pick. If you reckon that trade went well I'd hate to see a trade that went bad.

The Bell trade was good, I don't know where you got the idea we traded all of those players for him. We traded sinclair Pick 6 (smith) and i think pick 50 for him. Bell was a 24 yr old premiership player/club champion. He has turned out to be one of fremantles greatest players

 

[Ripper]

North picked up Smith with pick 6 didnt they? And we ended up getting him anyway


Well worth it.

I am not saying it was not worth it , just that we gave up a lot.

With pick 6 we could have had (with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight of course ) Kerr , Hadley or Ash Mc Grath to name a few.

 

[raffrox]

The Bell trade was good, I don't know where you got the idea we traded all of those players for him. We traded sinclair Pick 6 (smith) and i think pick 50 for him. Bell was a 24 yr old premiership player/club champion. He has turned out to be one of fremantles greatest players

Sorry BB but you are wrong and Ripper is right. We did give up Sinclair, our first rounder and North wanted another first rounder as well. So we gave Collingwood Holland and Clement for their first rounder to give to North.

Thats well and truly bent over in my book but still worth it because it was Bell. But really North got what they wanted and Collingwood was pretty stoked too.

The Headland trade was equally a shafting. Jared Brennan and Adam McPhee.

I also don't know how trading away the first pick in the best draft ever (imagine Ball in our midfield) partly for Croad (who we sent back anyway) can not be seen as anything but a waste. We could have got McPharlin by other means and kept our firs two picks. Well a smart club would anyway. Time to prove if we've actually learnt anything.

 

[BB gun]

Sorry BB but you are wrong and Ripper is right. We did give up Sinclair, our first rounder and North wanted another first rounder as well. So we gave Collingwood Holland and Clement for their first rounder to give to North.
.

Are you sure. If that is the case than i agree we got bent over. From memory, I thought we gave up a third or fourth round draft pick in the deal. Does anyone know a site that will give you the details of all the trades that have taken place.

 

[voodoo_86]

I'd like to see how we could have got McPharlin any other way when our preseason pick was stripped (if we had waited for the preseason we would have been screwed)

Croad for pick 1 was the biggest flop in the dockers current trading history (we all know the prior history). At the time though I wasn't too dissapointed and I doubt too many others would have been either.

These trades must be looked at when they occured. Bell was worth it. Farmer was worth it. Headland was worth it.

What it does do though is serve as a timely reminder that if you trade youth, there is a possibility that youth will go on to shine.

 

[Ripper]

Are you sure. If that is the case than i agree we got bent over. From memory, I thought we gave up a third or fourth round draft pick in the deal. Does anyone know a site that will give you the details of all the trades that have taken place.

There was a couple of late picks going different ways IIRC. Just don't rely on the AFL site as it only tells half the story. The Pope may be able to clarify all of it as he is all knowing.

 

[BB gun]

AFL is quite confusing. seems like Ripper is right
Bell trade
http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=pastdraft&spg=alltimelistdisplay&articleid=12691
http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=pastdraft&spg=alltimelistdisplay&articleid=12631

Croad Trade
http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=pastdraft&spg=alltimelistdisplay&articleid=12630
http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=pastdraft&spg=alltimelistdisplay&articleid=12672

 

[Ripper]

AFL is quite confusing. seems like Ripper is right
Bell trade

Half right. from what I can make out.

Paul Williams > Syney for Pick 8 + Pick 39 (which came from adelaide originally)
Holland + Clement + pick 22 > Collingwood for Pick 8 + Pick 39 (Adam Mcphee)
Sinclair + Pick 6 + Pick 8 > Kangaroos for Bellie

Pick 22 + Mal Micheal went to Brisbane form Collingwood for Jarad Molloy.

So in effect we gave up Clement + Sinclair + Holland + Pick 6 + Pick 22 for Bellie + Pick 39 (Adam Mcphee).

As a side note Swabby did say on DL that they paid a bit much for DJ but were hampered as that year we were banned from the second round of the draft for Salary cap breaches in 2001.

In a normal year we would have probably got a couple of 2nd rounders back but not only did we lose our 2nd round picks we were barred from trading into the second round.
This is something that CC & Swabbie inherited and is often forgotten when comparing us with what the mob up the road have done since 2001.

We would have been in deep ******** if we hadn't been so successfull with rookies.

Personally I am happy with the Macpharlap (worth a no 1 pick by himself IMO) deal & the Headland deal to a lesser extent.

 

[YAKUZA]

Yeah you're right, it's best if he went to a rabble like North. How bout we on trade him to you for one of your retirees?

What has North got to do with the topic you lame brain idiot? stay on the subject. The sad fact is that the Dockers are a rabble and have been since the day they were formed.

 

[voodoo_86]

Another sad fact is the Kangas are a rabble and have been since their captain screwed his best mates missus. Good luck trading for anyone of value with 2 of your best players and half the coaching staff leaving and your shoe string budget noone would want to go there.

Enjoy the next few years finishing outside of the 8, they'll probably fold after that.

 

[raffrox]

I'd like to see how we could have got McPharlin any other way when our preseason pick was stripped (if we had waited for the preseason we would have been screwed)

Croad for pick 1 was the biggest flop in the dockers current trading history (we all know the prior history). At the time though I wasn't too dissapointed and I doubt too many others would have been either.

These trades must be looked at when they occured. Bell was worth it. Farmer was worth it. Headland was worth it.

What it does do though is serve as a timely reminder that if you trade youth, there is a possibility that youth will go on to shine.

I never suggested we wait for the pre-season draft for McPharlin. We just could have kept our first two picks and got the job done another way. You don't get first pick overall too often.

Freo has always been extremely reactive with their trading. Neesham trying to squeeze a finals berth and save his own skin traded for Fletcher and Bond (we got Clem Michael as well) and in those deals at one time or another we had the draft picks that snared Luke Power or Brad Ottens. Both would be handy right now. Neesham got sacked and Fletcher and Bond have retired. Reactive trading that didn't work.

We needed an outside pacey midfielder. It was Freos achilles heal. All slow inside midfielders as a result of Drummys system. So we traded away McPhee and Brennan for Headland. Once again reactive. Must fill need now, must fill need now!!

And now we are after that hard nosed midfielder that we just have to have now (IMO an artifact of Connollys current systems). Reactive again. Mark Williams knows it too. Don't think that we won't have to pay absolute top dollar for Carr. Williams knows what the rest of the league knows... we are as soft as butter.

How about developing our own and keeping our picks and keeping our youth?Its worked for Geelong and the Saints. To me thats the answer.

How about developing a game plan that actually includes going hard at it? Pav is almost 100 kg and you just have to watch him in our current structure to see he doesn't use that bulk much at all.

 

[FreoDocker]

Cmon fellas look at the topic!!!
Don't let this thread fall into the "My penis is bigger than yours" argument.

In the Sunday Times they said that Carr would request a trade home if it could be organised, otherwise he would stick with port. Now call me cynical, but if I was port I wouldn't be trying that hard to deal with Freo and if I did, I would accept nothing less than a trading win for the club.

Carr won't come cheap, which could mean trading Simmonds and a first round pick in a three way deal for him. There has been a bit of talk about trading Dunn, but correct me if I'm wrong, I was under the impression that interstate draftees had to be kept on the list and couldn't be traded in the first 2 years. Even so I wouldn't want to give Dunn away until he has had a few years to develop. Unless players are extremely talented, they are not simply going to walk into a club and make an impact in their first year.

The logical trade looks like sending Scott Thompson to port and perhaps involve a 4th club to get Carr. I think most port supporters would be happy with Thompson and a 1st or early 2nd round pick Carr, which would leave freo having to trade with either melbourne or a fourth club to compensate them for Thompson.

 

[voodoo_86]

How about developing our own and keeping our picks and keeping our youth? Its worked for Geelong and the Saints. To me thats the answer.

Partly true.. but..

Saints:
Heath Black (Freo)
Barry Brooks (Port)
Craig Callaghan (Freo)
Fraser Gehrig (WCE)
Brent Guerra (Port)
Aaron Hamill (Carlton)
Trent Knobel (Brissy)
Allan Murray (Port)
Luke Penny (Bullies)
Stephen Powell (Melb)
Brett Voss (Brissy)

That's 11 out of 37

We've only got 8.

Geelong have 5 (i think, not too knowledgable about the players on their side)

And just because this is relatively interesting and i'm bored...

Carlton - 13
Saints - 11
Port - 10
Collingwood - 9
Kangas - 9
Adelaide - 8
Freo - 8
Bullies - 7
Brissy - 6
Essendon - 6
Melbourne - 6
Sydney - 6
Geelong - 5
Hawthorn - 5
Richmond - 5
Eagles - 4

These numbers are pretty dodgy, just looking at player lists and going from memory, but they should give a relative idea.

We're not that bad

 

[Scham]

We should get him.
May take a big deal to make port happy, although I think he will be worth it. He's just what we need and unlike Dud Headland won't rest on his laurals and slip into a comfort zone, admiring his medallion and collecting bucket loads of undeserved cash.

 

[raffrox]

Heres my reply voodoo...

Saints:
Heath Black (Freo) - starting 22
Barry Brooks (Port) - not a high profile recruit, struggling
Craig Callaghan (Freo) - crab
Fraser Gehrig (WCE) - starting 22
Brent Guerra (Port) - ok but not amazing
Aaron Hamill (Carlton) - starting 22
Trent Knobel (Brissy) - crab
Allan Murray (Port) - crab
Luke Penny (Bullies) - ok. starting 22
Stephen Powell (Melb) - old and picked up in PSD
Brett Voss (Brissy) - PSD as well

So the PSD picks cost them nothing. So they were wins. That leaves Black, Gehrig, Hamill and Penny who are really of any note.

The Saints best/ high profile players include drafted players like Kosi, Reiwolt, Del Santo, Ball, Jones, Harvey, Hayes, Goddard, Clarke... You get the idea. Not their traded for players (except for Gehrig and Hamill).

Freos high profile traded players are - Headland, Bell, Farmer, Simmonds, Carr. Thats over half our salary cap. Big recruits with big contracts and big expectations.

My point... other teams trade for players as well but Freo seems to try land the big recruit that'll make all the difference. Its not working. It costs too much to get em.

 

[Scham]

Of those Freo ones Raffrox you'd say that only the Headland and Farmer trades have backfired. The others were good trade deals.
Its just that the Headland and Farmer ones were nightmarish trades that makes us look so bad. I don't think the Carr deal will backfire unless we go crazy and give up too much.
I think we can get Carr and still keep our early draft picks to develop young guns.
We've got some fodder to use at trade week; Simmo, Grover, Headland, Farmer, Seigert, Browne, TLo etc.

 

[YAKUZA]

Simple solution, give Matthew Carr to Port Power that way they get to play together at a good professionally run Club under a Coach with balls who knows what he's doing. Not like that effeminate excuse you have at the Dockers.

 

[Ship_docker]

Now cmon yak,you know you are really a closet docker,just come out and admit it.

FWIW i revel in being craptacular,no one does it better than Freo.

 

[pav_is_god]

What has North got to do with the topic you lame brain idiot? stay on the subject. The sad fact is that the Dockers are a rabble and have been since the day they were formed.

Just worry about your own sorry state of affairs and we'll deal with ours. Now off you go, run along...

 

[Borry]

------

 

[Exeter]

IMO Freo are marginally less likely to get Carr, than the Eagles are to get Stenglein.

I doubt either trades will succeed.

Particularly in view of Port's stated position on Carr post GF.

And if you do get him, you'll be paying a king's ransom for a prime premiership team performer.

 

[baaaallllll]

On Adelaide Radio this morning, it was reported that two well know radio commentators KG and Port Adelaide legend Russell Ebert were sitting in some lobby and overhead Conolly talking to someone saying "We will have Haselby and Schammer receiving from Josh Carr".

Then when two blokes got up they saw that Chris was talking to Danny Frawley.